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InvisibleAsante
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Tetraploid shrooms?
    #19222266 - 12/03/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Back in the 1980s, herb was herb. Then cultvators came along who with use of colchicine produced tetraploid cannabis, they called it Skunk, and with it laid the foundation for the superweed we have today.

Tetraploid organisms have not one but two pairs of each chromosome.  As a result they tend to be bigger, more robust, tend to be more efficient in metabolizing their substrate and tend to have a higher content of actives.

Picture a more rapid growing, bigger, meatier Cubensis thats stronger than liberty caps, or a more aggressive Azurescens which routinely has about 3% actives.

They would be new varieties, requiring spores of their own kind to reproduce.

It would be simply the original strain of mushroom, but with the genetic material doubled up in the cell, like skunkweed is to regular weed. Tetraploid shrooms anyone?


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
    #19222309 - 12/03/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So how is it done? Is it possible or just an idea?


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #19222413 - 12/03/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Tetraploidation is done on all sorts of organisms.  What you are basically doing is add a substance like colchicine or trifluralin to living cells, and during their replication their chromosomes double up.

With weed seeds it was done with a solution of colchicine or even a tea from colchicum autumnale, the seeds were soaked in that, then planted.  Most died but some emerged from this treatment tetraploid and more robust.

What immediately comes to mind is tainting liquid culture with a polyploidy inducing substance, letting it sit for a bit, then putting drops of it onto agar and isolating the most vigorous growers via sectoring, followed by turning the purified cultures to LC and injecting them into substrates to have them fruit.

It can be done OTC, colchicum autumnale bulbs are available at garden centers and can be made into a polyploidy inducing extract. Also, soime cannabis grow shops carry Colchicine, whih is quite toxic, as a pure compound.


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Offlinemonoculture
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
    #19222498 - 12/03/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

As far as I know, they treated seeds with it because normal cells would die instantly when exposed to colchicine.
So to apply this to shrooms, I think the best bet is using it on spores that are not germinated yet?
I also understand colchicine is very dangerous to yourself, so I would not advice anyone experimenting with it before thorough study first.


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Offlineshopdropper
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
    #19222518 - 12/03/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

care to elaborate more on how to turn it into a polyploidy inducing extract? wonder how well claviceps would handle this (mutation?)?


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Offlinevertygo
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: shopdropper]
    #19223053 - 12/03/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:takingnotes:


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: shopdropper]
    #19223372 - 12/03/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have researched the matter a bit deeper and came to an awesome colchicine replacement.

There's a herbicide by the name of Oryzalin which is even more active as an inducer of polyploidy yet much less toxic to humans, which also is very available.

Oryzalin can be had as a 40% solution as the herbicide Surflan A.S. and the recommended concentration for inducing polyploidy is 0.005%, which means that 0.1ml of the 40% herbicide can render 800ml water effective in inducing polyploidy.

And yes there will be massive cell death, but the cells of the liquid culture that live will have a high degree of polyploidy among it.

Its best to abandon Colchicine completely and go for Oryzalin as its much better for the purpose, dramatically less toxic and way more available for less cost.

Regarding toxicity, the Oral LD50 in rats is 26mg/kg for Colchicine and 5000mg/kg for Oryzalin showing reduction in toxicity from highly toxic to harmful.


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Invisiblewildernessjunkie
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
    #19223421 - 12/03/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So to dumb it down a bit:

Create a non-monoculture LC. Add Oryzalin at a concentration of %.005 and then use it for inoculation and look for success? The results should be Tetraploid?


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Offlineshopdropper
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: wildernessjunkie]
    #19224043 - 12/03/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thats what i got out of it lol.. will keep this in mind. ive seen colchicine effected weed plants they have werd shaped leaves with odd numbers, i had no idea it could mutate fungi. this is in effect a mutagen?


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Invisiblelaughingsol
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
    #19224118 - 12/03/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Picture a more rapid growing, bigger, meatier Cubensis thats stronger than liberty caps, or a more aggressive Azurescens which routinely has about 3% actives.





According to David Moore- fungal morphogenesis, essential fungal genetics- multiploidy among fungi is quite rare.


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Offlinemagicbroncoride
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: shopdropper]
    #19224299 - 12/03/13 08:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What about taking a spore print and using this solution instead of water? Wouldn't you want as diverse genetics as possible to start? Or am I just not getting it? Damnit now I will be up all night reading.


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Invisibledusttodust


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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: magicbroncoride]
    #19225741 - 12/04/13 08:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:nothingtoadd:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
    #19229892 - 12/05/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
There's a herbicide by the name of Oryzalin which is even more active as an inducer of polyploidy yet much less toxic to humans, which also is very available.






How would an herbicide work on fungi? 

Also, I was in Afghanistan in 1974 to 1975.  The good weed there all smelled like skunk.  I'm not sure I can buy into colchicine being responsible for that.
RR


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
    #19229906 - 12/05/13 02:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Is there a way to distinguish a tetrakaryote from a dikaryote?

Like under the scope?


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Offlineg3n3h4x0r
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
    #19230864 - 12/05/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Poorly worded info.


Edited by g3n3h4x0r (05/20/14 10:04 AM)


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Offlineg3n3h4x0r
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? *DELETED* [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
    #19230935 - 12/05/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Poorly worded info.


Edited by g3n3h4x0r (05/20/14 10:04 AM)


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Invisiblelaughingsol
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
    #19232188 - 12/05/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

g3n3h4x0r said:
Also, the haploid and diploid mycelium/spores would not differ enough and would likely mate.  This would be a triploid fruit, which I have no idea what it would do.  :confused:  Regardless, cultures would need separated.


It seems to me that this just needs to be approached carefully as to not waste all of your time.




I don't think this is quite right.  The haploid and diploid can mate, assuming they're compatible- but it only results in all diploid mycelium.  Only one set of chromosomes from the diploid factors in the mating in these instances.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: laughingsol]
    #19234007 - 12/05/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why are you guys still calling it haploid and diploid? No such thing in the kingdom of fungus.


Edited by teknix (12/05/13 09:30 PM)


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Invisiblelaughingsol
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: teknix]
    #19234073 - 12/05/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

touche


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OfflineAmanita virosa
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: teknix]
    #19235583 - 12/06/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Why are you guys still calling it haploid and diploid? No such thing in the kingdom of fungus.




Not true.  Fungal spores are haploid. A fungal zygote is diploid. 



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