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OfflineJw6457
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No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!!
    #19223579 - 12/03/13 06:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hey guys i just started using agar and made my first transfers from clones, pins, and prints. The problem is im getting lots of condensation and water on surface of agar after pcing. Does anyone know a solution to this issue.

Im not comfortable yet pouring my own plates as i just started but i dont know how to keep the no pour plates from getting excess condensation and pooling. Please help


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InvisibleStool_Sample
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Jw6457]
    #19223656 - 12/03/13 07:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Condensation comes from cooling too quickly..

Did you remove the agar from the PC before the PC was cool to the touch?

If So,
I would not touch your PC at all after shutting off the Stove top. don't remove the Pressure Rocker, and don't open the PC until the next morning. (if you PC at night)(Hence, it's cold to the touch, naturally)


Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I let the bottle of agar cool 'almost' until room temperature.  The agar will still pour ok.  Always wait until you can at least handle the bottle of agar without any heat protection for your hands. Pour the dishes in a vertical stack as said above.  Condensation is formed because of the difference in temperature.  Condensation will always form on the warm side of a surface, so having the dishes stacked eliminates the temperature differential between them.  What condensation forms using this method will usually be reabsorbed by the agar within a couple of days.
RR







Edited by Stool_Sample (12/03/13 07:04 PM)


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Jw6457]
    #19223663 - 12/03/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Got your PM about this,  I prefer to answer on the boards

Leaving stuff in the cooker until it's cooled all the way can help.  One of the main reasons for that condensation is heat differentials so staying in a gradually- and evenly-cooling place until gelled can condense less moisture on the sides and be replaced by less moisture from the agar.

Personally when that happens I just shake all the water out before inoculating.  This is no problem since I use sterile laminar airflow but those working in cramped still-air boxes might have to work something else out.

I say this just about every time:  I only see excess condensation as an issue when combined with bacterial contam issues.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Jw6457]
    #19223666 - 12/03/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just Pm'd you.....the trick is to pour it right before it solidifies.....that way there isn't that much of a temperature differential.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: PussyFart]
    #19223671 - 12/03/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

He's not pouring, it's no-pour containers.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Jw6457]
    #19223677 - 12/03/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Oh...my bad...I misread......carry on....


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InvisibleStool_Sample
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: PussyFart]
    #19223687 - 12/03/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's good to hear though for when he goes to do Regular agar work later.(if Ever)


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Invisibledusttodust


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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Violet]
    #19223706 - 12/03/13 07:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If i go with no-pour method i get excess water in my dishes too.

As violet said, shake the water before applying culture on it. I sometime use sterile gauze to wipe corners of dish, it helps. Pouring in aseptic area may solve your condensation problems IMO. You have to work in aseptic area anyway and why no-pour?


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OfflineJw6457
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Stool_Sample]
    #19223719 - 12/03/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I do the no pour plates, i pour the plates and let them cool a little before putting lids on to see if that would help but it made things worse.

I pced the plates and let the cool overnight in the pc. I wonder if simmering the agar and pour the playes and letting them cool before putting lids on right away is the reason this is happening. Ill try pour the plates, sealing them up right away and pcing them right away so they dont cool down so quickly in jars unless i should let them cool completely and then put the lids on


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WHAT UP GUYS< JUST HERE TRYING TO BECOME A SCIENTIST AND GROW SOME MOOSHIES


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OfflineOphi
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Jw6457]
    #19223809 - 12/03/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I actually just started messing with agar myself, and being a little timid, I also wanted to try the no pour method. I poured 8 baby jars, and one left over pint jar that has a filter on it. I left all to cool in the un-touched PC and literally all of them had some condensation and or water on the agar when I opened it the next day.

Since I had the pint jar all set up for BRF (one 1/5" filter hole in the middle and four injection spots with silicone) I decided I would go ahead and inject some spores. Worst case scenario I lose some agar jars on my first attempt. Also; since it was all pressure cooked, the water ought to be sterile at this point. After about four days the agar is beautifully colonized. I'm going to transfer to four WBS jars, and as many of the baby food jars as I can tomorrow. I'll be sure to take pictures for you.


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OfflineJw6457
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Ophi]
    #19223867 - 12/03/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Theres no way you got ms to fully colonize agar in 4 days man unless i read your post wrong. Maybe contams


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WHAT UP GUYS< JUST HERE TRYING TO BECOME A SCIENTIST AND GROW SOME MOOSHIES


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OfflineOphi
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Jw6457]
    #19225239 - 12/04/13 03:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No, I guess you're right. I just looked at a post I had in another thread and I inoculated the agar the following day (11/27) so I guess it's been almost a week exactly. Sorry for the misinformation Jw


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Offlinetwistedty
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: dusttodust]
    #19225451 - 12/04/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

dusttodust said:
If i go with no-pour method i get excess water in my dishes too.

As violet said, shake the water before applying culture on it. I sometime use sterile gauze to wipe corners of dish, it helps. Pouring in aseptic area may solve your condensation problems IMO. You have to work in aseptic area anyway and why no-pour?




it doesnt hurt anything, the only reason i would open my agar dish would be to transfer a wedge to it otherwise youre just risking contams for no reason


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: twistedty]
    #19225507 - 12/04/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Really a little condesation is normal with both no pour and pour agar IME. Not the end of the world. If your are getting so much that your no pour is pooling, you definitely were cooling it off too fast. If find that with my tek most condesation usually gets absorbed into the agar or evaporates out withing a few days. These easy plates have zero condensation.



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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19225679 - 12/04/13 08:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I find that with my tek most condesation usually gets absorbed into the agar or evaporates out withing a few days.



Cool the plates slowly as others have said.  Mine always have a bit of vapor drops, but I consider what I have been using "dry".  It takes a few hours for the PC to cool down to room temp, which is perfect for these experiments.  If you still have condensation, set them on a radiator or heat them slightly for a bit.  100f should help dry it out.


Pasty, do your self a sold and get some of the 2 cup pp5 containers for agar.  Trust me, that cute little cup is great for carrying aspirin in a lunch box.  I find that having more width at the mouth allows for much more skillful knife work....as well as a large surface that you could easily grow out 3 clones on.  I've been using the two cup PP5 for the last 3 months, and consider it an excellent alternative to disposable petri.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19225727 - 12/04/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have used pretty much every size and shape imaginable. I like my mini rounds because of their small size. Once you get some practice in, you don't need a massive space, I rarely even let the culture grow out more than 3/4 of the plate surface as it is, always looking for the next transfer. Second the smaller container allows for one handed use, which has advantages when working in a SAB. Finally I can fit like 75-80 of em in my fridge, and its usually full :lol: Bigger plates means less space for cultures and for me that's a deal breaker.


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InvisibleFred Teddy
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19226105 - 12/04/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I do no-pour exclusively for agar and get little or no condensation. I break the rules a bit but this works for me ... Jar w/agar, po tyvek filter, band, no lid. I leave the lid loose on top of the jar under the foil just so it gets pc'd also, not that it makes much of a difference. Remove from pc while still hot, remove foil with lid, and let solidify/cool under a paper towel. Then unscrew the band and put the lid over the filter (the rule breaking part). I have done 100's of jars this way with no contams and little to no condensation. I don't do 'filter first' for grains or anything else, just agar. You do need the lid or it will dry out in like three days. It is a little difficult to get into the jar (unless ms), but if you don't crank the band down so tight it will unscrew - filter, lid, and band, all in one piece and keep its shape nicely. Thats the only downfall - getting quickly and efficiently into and out of the jars.

You get condensation in jars because the vapor cant escape before it condenses to liquid. Especially through a small hole. The 'no lid' increased surface area allows the vapor to rapidly dissipate through the tyvek, exactly what tyvek is designed to do. Tyvek will not pass liquid. So it has to be hot out of the pc for this to work well. It also helps to mix the agar a little wet because the agar loses more moisture this way.

Flame me all you want for the 'filter first' thing, it won't change my mind. I'm not saying this is even close to an accepted way to do agar, but you won't get any condensation, and that was the OP's question. All I can say is try it, set some completed jars out on the shelf for a week or two and tell me if any contaminate through the 'tyvek first' filter. OP, if all else fails, try this out. I get away with it like a bandit.

Peace,
FT


--------------------
... its all about fun and games ... and no one has poked their eye out ... yet.

Peace.

Disclaimer: Fact is ... Its all fiction.


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Fred Teddy]
    #19226156 - 12/04/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Bigger plates means less space for cultures and for me that's a deal breaker.



True that.  I can cram about 8 of the Two cup containers into the PC, and based on my methods last about a month.  I like the larger surface so that I know I have time to wait as things grow out.  I am not always available to move things, or even in the same state as my cultures.  Just a personal preference.  I just like to point out that my container is bigger than  yours :wink:


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OfflineOphi
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: HypnotoadCroaked]
    #19227571 - 12/04/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Okay, well I did some transfers today, and unfortunately I couldn't find the charger for my actual camera and had to use the phone, so sorry for the crappy quality. I had already done some agar transfers and WBS so I decided to sacrifice the rest of the inoculated agar I had to show you what it looked like.



Again, this is one of the no pour PDA agar jars I had which had condensation on/in it. Doesn't seem to have adversely affected the agar.


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OfflineShook.1
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Re: No pour agar problems/ condensationnnnn!!!! [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21605489 - 04/27/15 06:54 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

hey pasty

sorry to dig up an old thread but i've been looking trying out your pp5 agar tek with mrbarts PDYA recipe and i'm just curious what you or anyone else might think about using a paper towel between the lid and the agar?

similar to how you do yours, but just with an extra couple of folds of paper towel under the lid, then maybe a lil on top like your tek and then wrap the whole thing in foil of course, etc...?
then maybe remove the paper towel in a SAB before inoculation.
or would this just turn into a soggy piece of hell?

also, i know that RR usually recommends using a higher water level in the PC for his liquor bottle pour-agar tek to help the container cool slower and more evenly, so would this maybe help apply to the pp5 condensation situation?
only downside i can see would be that you couldnt stack containers in the PC and therefore couldnt do as many dishes, but for agar beginners...with less-than-perfect contam-free areas, no flowhoods, etc...who may not need a lot of agar to begin with, and would be more worried about condensation-contams...would this be plausible?

just curious...
thanks for humoring me.


--------------------
“A hallucination is a species of reality, as capable of teaching you as a videotape about Kilimanjaro or anything else that falls through your life.”
Terence McKenna


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