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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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The Ayahuasca vine germination thread * 1
    #18991755 - 10/17/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So this year, we've been offering a special selection of yage seeds. We have red, black and white in addition to our usual Tunkunaca strain. We've had our standard b. caapi guide out for a few years now http://worldseedsupplydotnet.blogspot.com/2009/12/how-to-germinate-banisteriopsis-caapi.html

But I wanted to assemble some information here on growing the other types and possibly write up something more comprehensive down the line. The red yage seeds look very much like caapi, except being reddish in color.  So it is likely 9but not guaranteed) that the instructions are pretty similar to caapi. The black and white yage seeds do differ quite a bit though.

Black yage (alicia anisopetala) seeds have a butterfly shape with two wings on either side of the actual "seed".  The white yage seeds are spade-shaped with the heart of the seed sandwiched between two papery thin spade-shaped layers.

This far, I have had one person report success witht he white caapi using 250 ppm of GA-3 (100mg per 400ml water) at 28 degrees C. He pulled the papery layers off the white yage, leaving only the heart.

I have just started my attempts at growing these today by soaking all four types of yage seed: red, white, black, Tunkunaca in the same 250 ppm GA-3 solution.  I pulled the papery layers off the white. I also removed the wings from the black yage seeds. In doing so, I noticed you can actually get down to a round spherical seed inside what you might call the "body" of the butterfly.  If you completely remove the covering, you can get down to this. So I am trying a few totally uncovered, and some others just with the wings removed too see whether the extra cleaning makes a noticeable difference.

If anyone else has been growing these, please share any tips you have regarding what has or has not worked. This is generally new territory for entho gardeners, and we can use additional experiences.  Share soil, temps, lighting and any other info that could be relevant to creating a guide for these special species.


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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #18996227 - 10/18/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Moved the soaked seeds from four types of caapi (red, white, black and Tunkunaca) to soil today.


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Invisible1234go
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #18998860 - 10/19/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I noticed on your site, it is saying you're still out of stock on all but the tunkunaka.


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InvisibleAuxin
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #18999320 - 10/19/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

World Seed Supply said:I have just started my attempts at growing these today



Youve been selling these for months without having ever germination-tested them!?!
Well, I suppose it would be mildly inconvenient for a small seed dealer to be an ethical seed dealer. You should at least start doing triphenyltetrazolium chloride tests tho, that gives its result in a day.

My $0.02:
I got 6 each of B. muricata, A. anisopetala, and 'white yage' (some sort of Polygonaceae?) and treated 2 of each with 50 ppm GA3 for 24 hrs for a gentleish boost, the others were water soaked for 24 hrs. All were at 25°C. One water soaked white yage sprouted after a few days, 3 weeks on theres no movement from the others. Too early to discount further germination tho, as germination of dried Banisteriopsis, etc. seeds is known to be slow.


--------------------
The Nook


Edited by Auxin (10/19/13 11:33 AM)


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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: Auxin]
    #19012062 - 10/22/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The other colors are in stock in our other stores..bonanza, blujay ecrater.

I think you underestimate what I actually do in a day. or maybe you really think we've had them for that long. But yes, I am finally getting the time to do some actual work with them. We've had them about exactly a month 9The Tunkunaca just about a week or two). It makes no sense to await germination trials while they age. The majority are gone already. We'd just be selling them now. That's exactly why I didn't wait til they were tested. I know regular caapi can take quite a while, so I didn't want to waste valuable time.

The listings are pretty clear in stating that we have no experience with growing them. They're being offered fresh from harvest, which is as good as you can ask for, especially on a seed this rare.
The Tunkunacas usually last 4-5 months in storage, so I was confident I would still have plenty of time to work with these.

In the meantime, I am getting feedback from other people and trying to put together some info to make a guide for next year. My own first-time experience is not enough. ...

I want to know how you sowed.
Are you removing the wings or any coverings?
Are you covering them?
Soil types?
Soil moisture?
Temperatures?
Successes without hormones like GA-3

So far, the white actually seem to be the quickest/easiest. 

Thanks for the info about the TTC. It's not something I know about, but it seems interesting, and it could certainly be useful. But I would have some learning to do on that.


--------------------
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50% OFF 1st KRATOM COLLECTION POWDER ORDER @ www.kratomcollectionshop.com
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Invisible1234go
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #19012372 - 10/22/13 07:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

World Seed Supply said:
The other colors are in stock in our other stores..bonanza, blujay ecrater.





Thanks for that bit, would've missed out.


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InvisibleAuxin
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #19013172 - 10/22/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

World Seed Supply said:
...maybe you really think we've had them for that long... We've had them about exactly a month



Your right, I did misunderstand how long you've had this harvest up. But it also sounded like you at least stocked seed from the same supplier before and didnt germ test then either? But I'll admit that was just my assumption.
Look in to TTC, if you have the time. Its a relatively inexpensive colorless compound that turns red when contacting metabolically active (living) tissues. I'm not certain its viable (without a UV/Vis spectrometer) for seed of malpighiaceae species but it should be, as the seed interior should be light enough that a pink coloration should be discernible under a good magnifying glass. Basically soak 20 seeds overnight in the solution and dissect looking for pink bits. Being able to say, for example, "70% viable by TTC assay" would be a nifty thing for your customers to see.

As for my sowing, I cut off the wings but left the rest of the wrappings intact (under the belief that astringent components therein may possibly protect the seed from microbial overgrowth... its equally possible they might contain dormancy factors to slow germination, or both), soaked for 24 hrs, and planted shallowly in seedling compost with the pots covered by petri dish tops. Day temps ~26.5°C, night temps 23°C. I'm no expert on this plant family, just going by instinct.

I exhaustively searched for a malpighiaceae genus with species having seed coverings even remotely like the frying pan seed white yage species to no avail but they bare an incredible resemblance to many polygonaceae family species. If the frying pan seed white yage is confirmed as a active brew base or admixture plant and is really a polygonaceae it could be something quite novel as I cant recall a single knotweed family aya admixture in the common literature. It will be interesting to see how this progresses.


--------------------
The Nook


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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: Auxin]
    #19058855 - 10/30/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

We have sprouts! The white has two seedlings as of today. 13 days from sowing. 14 including the one-day GA-3 soaking time. They were covered early on. Fearing mold, I removed the cover and kept the soil on the drier side. I allowed the top to slightly dry out, but never the soil underneath so that the seed would still be in contact with moisture at all times. The two papery frying pan layers were removed prior to sowing, and the seeds in the center were sown about 1/8th deep. Room temperature is approx. 65 degrees F. Lighting was T5 fluorescents.

The red and black under the same conditions have yet to sprout. But these, especially the black, may have been ruined by too much moisture. That's actually what prompted removal of the bags. I know too much moisture has ruined many caapi seed grows for me. I assume this is the same. These are supposed to take a while to sprout, so we will see.


--------------------
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USE CODE WELCOME50NWEW!



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OfflineWorld Seed SupplyV
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #19065114 - 10/31/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------
www.worldseedsupply.com
HELPING THE WORLD GROW!

50% OFF 1st KRATOM COLLECTION POWDER ORDER @ www.kratomcollectionshop.com
USE CODE WELCOME50NWEW!



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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #19076477 - 11/02/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

This day, I planted 3 muricata, 3 tunkunaca and 5 white seeds. Using IBA growth hormone in well soaked coco coir. I then placed a dome over it and put a heating pad under it. The temperature in the dome reads 81.6 F. I'm assuming 100% humidity.

Where does one get GA-3?


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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: Galidor4]
    #19184032 - 11/24/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I currently have two seeds that have sprouted, one White and one Muricata. Both soaked in GA-3 for 24 hrs. They're in coco coir, watered with distilled water every day.


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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: World Seed Supply]
    #19199674 - 11/28/13 07:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Got 2/10 Tunkunaca sprouted! Placed five in peat pellets and five in peat pellets with miracle grow substituted for the peat (basically miracle grow in a net). After one week 2 of the normal peat pellet seeds have sprouted. I didn't remove the wing from the seed, although in retrospect I'm wishing I did. The wings began to mold the morning after putting them in, and I sprayed them with h2o2. I let it continue for another night, then sprayed them again. I then installed a very low power fish tank pump to circulate some air in the tray. I sealed it in around the hose with silicone and made a hole with polyfil for the exhaust. This cut down on the mold significantly, and I no longer had to water with h2o2, which was a short term solution because it would kill the mold, then the moisture from it would form more. I let the peat pellets dry out to a lighter shade of brown, then left them alone until they sprouted, while venting two to three times a day.

Pictures:




Will update with pictures when they are larger

Edit 12/3/13: Seven of ten sprouted. Will post pictures later today


Edited by Joker Flash (12/03/13 06:45 AM)


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InvisibleJoker Flash
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: Joker Flash]
    #19223052 - 12/03/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Six have sprouted, and a seventh is beginning to root. I did not soak my seeds prior to planting. The temperature inside the greenhouse is room temperature. I'm not sure at all why I'm having such a good germination rate; I was only prepared to have one sprout. The first leaves on one of them is beginning to unfurl today. I also snipped the wings off of the seeds once they began to rise to put them under less weight, but if the sprout is popping up directly beside the seed I haven't snipped the seed. I'm really excited to have seven killer vines :smile:



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OfflineGalidor4
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: Joker Flash]
    #19226868 - 12/04/13 02:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hell yea! That's so sick to see. I only got two out of the 20-30 I bought but at least there's some! It's such an exciting addition


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: Galidor4]
    #19228226 - 12/04/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hey I'm sorry if I take this off topic a little bit but I've seen a lot of these winged seeds in the midsouth of America and I was wandering what exactly is the Tunkunaca plant nd what is it's significance? Also Are most all plants that drop these winged swirly seeds the Tunkunaca?


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InvisibleJoker Flash
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: spaceman101]
    #19228301 - 12/04/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Galidor4 said:
Hell yea! That's so sick to see. I only got two out of the 20-30 I bought but at least there's some! It's such an exciting addition



Awesome! I'm glad to hear you got some. How big are yours? I know absolutely nothing about the growth rate of the juveniles so anything you could comment on that would be appreciated. I'm really shell shocked about how many I got... I don't know where I'll keep them.

Quote:

spaceman101 said:
Hey I'm sorry if I take this off topic a little bit but I've seen a lot of these winged seeds in the midsouth of America and I was wandering what exactly is the Tunkunaca plant nd what is it's significance? Also Are most all plants that drop these winged swirly seeds the Tunkunaca?



You're probably seeing the seeds from maple trees. "The Tunkunaca" is just a variation of the Banisteriopsis caapi vine that grows in South America. B. caapi most likely could not live outdoors in the majority of the states because it requires high humidity and high temperatures year round, and won't tolerate any frost. It might be possible for it to thrive in Florida. As for the significance it is used in some ritual South American brews.


Edited by Joker Flash (12/04/13 07:28 PM)


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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: Joker Flash]
    #19228911 - 12/04/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They're only a few inches tal and a few weeks oldl. One is working on it's second set of leaves but they turned black and I assume it has to do with the lack of heat during the night. The other one is working on it's first set, they were caught up in the seed coat.


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InvisibleJoker Flash
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Re: The Ayahuasca vine germination thread [Re: Galidor4]
    #19231612 - 12/05/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks a ton! I'll probably try to find a heat mat soon if that's the case. My second tallest seedling is just starting on his first set of leaves, while the largest has his unfurled, and is about an inch tall. I'm going to move the largest out of the seedling tray tonight and see how he does with less humidity, and better lighting. I've found a lot of information of how to care for larger vines, but not nearly as much for seedlings.


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