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InvisibleEchro
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Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says * 1
    #19222718 - 12/03/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

OG Kush. Skywalker. Pineapple Express. Sour Diesel. Sour Jack.

These are the "strains" that medical marijuana consumers are sold, often at premium prices, with the promise that they'll do something special for you.

But a foremost cannabis expert, Jeffrey Raber, who holds a Ph.D. in chemistry from USC, says it's all b.s. Those names don't mean anything, and a forthcoming study he's working on will prove it, Raber tells us. In fact ...

... he even disputes the commonly held notion that the two polar types of weed, indica and sativa, produce opposing effects -- specifically that indica is more of a depressant and sativa is more of an upper.

    The data shows that indica and sativa is just morphology [the plants' appearance and structure, not their highs]. It's a misperception that indica will put you to sleep or that sativa is more energetic.

To be sure, many of the aforementioned strains pack the punch promised by their purveyors.

But beyond that, especially when it comes to projections of stimulation or relaxation, head trips versus body highs, and strain-specific cures and treatments, it's a crap shoot, Raber says.

There's no scientific basis for the claims being made by pot shops about the effects of their weed, Raber argues. In fact, he says his study is showing that what's being sold as OG Kush in one shop could be something completely different in another.

"Most people don't even know," he says. "We took a popular name, Jack Herer, and found that most didn't even look like each other. OG whatever, Kush whatever, and the marketing that goes along with it -- it's not really medically designed."

Raber's company, The Werk Shop, provides testing for medical marijuana dispensaries so they can sell pesticide-free weed that's been verified.

The strain study he's working on is analyzing more than 1,000 brands of cannabis sold at pot shops, Raber says. The science involved is called metabolomics and will look at metabolites, cannabinoids, turpenes and 42 other aspects of each sample, he says.

The pot expert plans to see the study published by spring. He hopes in the end the research will establish new guidelines for naming strains so that they're consistent from dispensary to dispensary and, more importantly, so that they actually mean something to the consumer.

Raber:

    "You need a better classification system. We need a new naming system. We're at the forefront of being able to do that."

SOURCE: http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/12/marijuana_strains_are_fake_study.php

~~~I think they're overlooking the fact that different strains that share the same names can be grown by different people with a difference in standard of quality & yield. As well I'm pretty positive that if you flood somebody's synapses with a huge amount of differing cannabinoids it's going to produce different effects :rolleyes: What say you?


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Echro] * 1
    #19222746 - 12/03/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

biased study from the beginning :burke:, but hes an expert so he knows best


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OfflineDirtyTomFlint
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Echro]
    #19222755 - 12/03/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There's no scientific basis for the claims being made by pot shops? Pot shops rarely grow their own pot. Dispensaries and collectives have growers and researchers who do their shit for them and record statistics like CBD levels etc. Most bud go through a very basic testing lab before being distributed to collectives.

Also, do you realize HOW EASY it is to test for those compounds in bud? It's fucking cheap, and it's fucking easy.

Obviously, there are a shit ton of black market dealers out there who don't know what the fuck they're talking about and sell you 'pineapple express' 'white widow' etc when it's actually schwag. That could be what you are referring to.

It is very difficult to deal with the media sometimes, esp when they talk shit.


--------------------




Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source


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InvisibleSuperFly
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: DirtyTomFlint]
    #19222790 - 12/03/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

A bud is a bud (a cube is a cube)


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OfflineCan-i-bus
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: D.M.T]
    #19222813 - 12/03/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It's all about terpenoids and their synergy with THC and other cannabinoids.

Of course some dispensaries have strains mislabeled as OG Kush and Jack Herer, it's a marketing gimmick.

If you're growing from seed then you might as well say that all strain names are meaningless because of the amount of phenos produced. If 10 growers each grew out one strain from the same seedbank they'd probably come up with something similar as a keeper but there would still be small differences between the plants depending on how stable the genetics were to begin with.


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Offlineniteman

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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Can-i-bus] * 1
    #19222843 - 12/03/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What if the guy is right though and there isn't much of a difference? Why are you people getting butthurt about it?


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OfflineCamwritesgonzo
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: niteman]
    #19223018 - 12/03/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know, I haven't met a person who has smoked OG Kush who didn't fall in love with it, including some of the most seasoned smokers I've ever known. It's a one hit wonder that inspires creativity and thought far more than any other strains I've smoked, apart from Blue Dream, Purple Headband, and Grape Kush. The whole point of breeding different strains is being able to see which ones work for the individual. The goal is to help people understand more about cannabis, rather than trying to discriminate against certain strains because one person doesn't find them as interesting or helpful as others do.
The thing to remember is that each person is different, has different chemistry, and therefore reacts differently to different strains, as well as cannabis in general. When you start railing against the strain that somebody gets the most benefit from, I can understand full well why that person would get a bit butthurt.


--------------------
"I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits
"I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Camwritesgonzo]
    #19223089 - 12/03/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I agree that strains are often mislabeled and names abused, but there are certainly differences from one to the other.

THC content, CBD:THC ratio, as well as a ton of other factors do play a role in the subjective high.


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Invisiblenatzyshroomer
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #19223103 - 12/03/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've never been able to tell the difference between indicas and sativas I get
High regardless but now we are actually discrediting medical marijuana all together


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All submitted posts are by Someone Who Isn't Me and in any event are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit


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OfflineNicoCL
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: natzyshroomer]
    #19223156 - 12/03/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Different strains have different effects, that's a truth that no academic paper will ever replace. I agree about the labeling part though.


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OfflineCamwritesgonzo
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: NicoCL]
    #19223188 - 12/03/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

NicoCL said:
Different strains have different effects, that's a truth that no academic paper will ever replace. I agree about the labeling part though.



When it comes to sellers just wanting to make an extra buck by calling "Kush A" "Super Deluxe Rhino Fuck Kush", I get a little chuffed, but differentiating one variety of Kush from another, based on certain qualities (flavor, scent, cerebral vs. body high, etc.), I like the idea of getting a little experimental with it. Mixing it up now and again. Trial and error.


--------------------
"I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits
"I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?


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OfflineYage
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: niteman]
    #19223193 - 12/03/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteman said:
What if the guy is right though and there isn't much of a difference? Why are you people getting butthurt about it?



because there could be a strain or breed out there that can help many?
Indica has always been my favorite. If I smoke the same strain mixed with a sativa I'm fucked, and trying to figure out what country to move to.


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Offlinehappygolucky
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Yage]
    #19223212 - 12/03/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The names don't mean anything, unless depicting land race. The dankest strains come from mixing different land races. But any real expert, such as myself, will tell anyone that there are huge differences between sativas and indicas.


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Offlinehappygolucky
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: happygolucky]
    #19223276 - 12/03/13 05:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

"There's no scientific basis for the claims being made by pot shops about the effects of their weed, Raber argues. In fact, he says his study is showing that what's being sold as OG Kush in one shop could be something completely different in another."

That's because there are different phenos for each strain, and even each pheno can come out differently when grown by different people under different circumstances, especially with all the newer, less stable strains. Just find what you like and stick with it.


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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: happygolucky]
    #19223282 - 12/03/13 05:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So essentially he's claiming the strains are mislabeled, and there doesn't appear to be any consistency among advertised stains.

Unfortunately, there aren't any properly controlled studies examining the subjective effects of strain differences and/or differences among indicas and sativas.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: D.M.T]
    #19223350 - 12/03/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Given that this study was well-designed, its results don't surprise me at some level.

But did they compete CBD-high versus THC-high strains against each other?  I suspect a dealer's poor creativity when it comes to nomenclature is a far cry from actual differences in THC/CBD ratios.  :strokebeard2:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: deCypher]
    #19223398 - 12/03/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I have been smoking weed around 20 years and live in an area heavily laden with growers, indoor and out, so I have access to all different strains straight from the grower.

And I have never really noticed a difference in strains effect. the only difference I ever really noticed was look, smell/taste, and potency, but the high is always the same depending on dosage.

Just my 2cents


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19223539 - 12/03/13 06:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
I have been smoking weed around 20 years and live in an area heavily laden with growers, indoor and out, so I have access to all different strains straight from the grower.

And I have never really noticed a difference in strains effect. the only difference I ever really noticed was look, smell/taste, and potency, but the high is always the same depending on dosage.

Just my 2cents




Been smoking for 10 years, lived in 9 cities during that time from coast to coast. Definitely agree, haven't noticed much difference outside of the look/smell/taste/potency.

Not that I'm claiming there isn't any difference, but people are easily duped and can't seem to fathom the concept of a placebo. More peer-reviewed research on the subject would be great.


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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Echro]
    #19223608 - 12/03/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:



... he even disputes the commonly held notion that the two polar types of weed, indica and sativa, produce opposing effects -- specifically that indica is more of a depressant and sativa is more of an upper.






Finally someone speaks truth. No one can tell indica/sativa in a blind taste test, its 100 percent placebo. I do this all the time give people indica and tell them its sativa  and vice versa, its whatever you think it is or better yet whatever I tell you it is. Known this for a while sativa and indica are impossible to tell apart from smoking it.


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OfflineShpongle1
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: my3rdeye]
    #19223661 - 12/03/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I most definitely get varying effects from different kinds of weed.  Some weed I smoke it and I get all bugged out and hate smoking weed.  Other times friends will have a certain type of weed that always gets me feeling nice, with a high that I can enjoy, no paranoia, no weird feelings, etc.

People might say it's a difference within myself from day to day, which I guess I can't say for sure is inaccurate, but I've compared the highs at the same location, with the same people and in a same mindset and had completely different effects dependent upon the type of bud.  So I don't know about all this...


--------------------





There are more people imprisoned for the commission of drug offenses in the United States - close to 500,000 - than are incarcerated in England, France, Germany, and Japan for all crimes combined.  Examined in another way, the United States has 100,000 more people incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses than all the countries of the European Union combined, despite the fact that the European Union has 100 million more citizens. :crankey: 

- "Drugs and Drug Policy: The Control of Consciousness Alteration, 2007.


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Offlinesomething cool
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Echro]
    #19223767 - 12/03/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

For me, weed has always been weed. Some more potent, some less, but all of it weed. So I'm interested to see what the aftermath of his report is.


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OfflineSnowDaze
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: something cool]
    #19224091 - 12/03/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

this dude is an idiot


--------------------
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Offlinefireshaman
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: SnowDaze]
    #19224192 - 12/03/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Jack Herer has many different phenos, as it's a seed strain, not just a clone and has been redone by many vendors.

This dude has no idea, let him try some high THCv and then some high CBD herb and he'd know.

Terpines have nice aroma and maybe medical benefits too.

Dude is just trying to sell his patented system.  Many places already test some aspects of their herb too.


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: fireshaman]
    #19224215 - 12/03/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This is basically like claiming different strains of apples all have the exact same flavor and amounts of vitamins in them. It's simply not true.

Now, will clubs put a name on something just to sell it? Sure. That doesn't mean different strains don't exist, it just means some people are full of shit.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19224303 - 12/03/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
This is basically like claiming different strains of apples all have the exact same flavor and amounts of vitamins in them. It's simply not true.





Not really an equivalent, different strains do appear different and have different scents/tastes. Different amounts of THC and anything else in them. The issue is the character of the high alone


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19224320 - 12/03/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
The issue is the character of the high alone




In that case then I will second this.

Quote:

Can-i-bus said:
It's all about terpenoids and their synergy with THC and other cannabinoids.







Obviously the guy doing this study has never smoked.


Edited by Ran-D (12/03/13 09:06 PM)


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Offlineaperson444
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D] * 1
    #19224377 - 12/03/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There are more than 60 different phytocannabinoids found in cannabis. As a higher eukaryote, cannabis has the ability to control gene expression.

For example, one plant might have a polymorphism that makes transcription of THCA-synthase very active (i.e a mutation that makes a transcription factor bind better to a specific suquence). This plant will produce a fuckton of THC-COOH when the transcription factor is produced (during the flowering stage of female plants).

Genetics is not a simple presence/no presence game, nor is it a simple Mendelian game. Every gene can be turned on and off, sometimes to different degrees.

The only way to ensure a consistent pheno would be to inbreed the plants many, many times. That or produce clones (or do both). This will concentrate a certain pattern of polymorphisms, but then comes to factor of how one grows the plant. Inbreeding can be a bad thing too, as it may concentrate negative phenotypes as well (recessive/dominant alleles come into play here as well). This is the same reason why inbred animals or humans are often prone to genetic diseases.

The end product is more complex than THC/CBD. There are density factors in the bud (the morphology of the plant). There are genetic factors that influence the presence of pigments, terpenes, cannabinoids, and proteins of interest in plants.

The only way to isolate a truly unique strain is to select a phenotype and concentrate it over and over again. It starts from a unique landrace and ends with a highly stabilized plant with a unique set of genetics.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: aperson444]
    #19224399 - 12/03/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Interesting


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Offlinebogan
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19224409 - 12/03/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think its like tomato's there heaps of different varieties and they come in different shapes and varieties but their all of the same family.
The rest is a result of breeding over time.


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: aperson444]
    #19224425 - 12/03/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Well put person.


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OfflineHappyHooligan
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19224462 - 12/03/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I never bothered myself with learning all the names & strains, because at the end of the day, even if there is an "OG Kush" people in my city DON'T know what the hell it is because they like to call ALL their shit "OG Kush"!! Like, no bitch, your shit is not fucking kush.

When I get weed...I just smoke it... Now if that shit is just covered and pure white crystals, I'm about to have a good time, and I don't care what you call it.


--------------------
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OfflineCaptainAhab


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: HappyHooligan]
    #19224561 - 12/03/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What the author is getting at is that he'll be able to use math and chemistry to prove that certain strains have unique chemical concentrations that differ from other strains.

In other words, the chemical composure, or signature, if you will, of certain strains should be used for creating a classification system.

It's like saying that fruit loops from vendor A are made of x and y, and that fruit loops from vendor B are made of x, y, and z, so therefore, fruit loops is a shitty name.


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: my3rdeye]
    #19224654 - 12/03/13 10:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

my3rdeye said:
Quote:



... he even disputes the commonly held notion that the two polar types of weed, indica and sativa, produce opposing effects -- specifically that indica is more of a depressant and sativa is more of an upper.






Finally someone speaks truth. No one can tell indica/sativa in a blind taste test, its 100 percent placebo. I do this all the time give people indica and tell them its sativa  and vice versa, its whatever you think it is or better yet whatever I tell you it is. Known this for a while sativa and indica are impossible to tell apart from smoking it.



Placebo is powerful. It unleashes the creative conscious mind which is stronger than any drug, medicine, or surgery.


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinesomething cool
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19224952 - 12/03/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Not to forget placebo while under heavy influence. Probably best to just wait to see what information the guy's report actually is founded upon.


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OfflinePurpleHaze147
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Shpongle1]
    #19225198 - 12/04/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Shpongle1 said:
I most definitely get varying effects from different kinds of weed.  Some weed I smoke it and I get all bugged out and hate smoking weed.  Other times friends will have a certain type of weed that always gets me feeling nice, with a high that I can enjoy, no paranoia, no weird feelings, etc.

People might say it's a difference within myself from day to day, which I guess I can't say for sure is inaccurate, but I've compared the highs at the same location, with the same people and in a same mindset and had completely different effects dependent upon the type of bud.  So I don't know about all this...



It's all about ur environment, who's with u, and the potency of the bud.

It's very hard to notice the different effects from strains other than potency. THC is THC, if u smoked CBD on it's own it wouldn't get u high at all. It's still important to have strain names because there definitely is a difference in smell, taste, potency, appearance, harshness, yields and too much CBD and/or THCV can diminish the THC high. Theres also a difference in the types of terpintines but they have a very minimal psychoactive effect.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: aperson444]
    #19225200 - 12/04/13 02:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

aperson444 said:
There are more than 60 different phytocannabinoids found in cannabis. As a higher eukaryote, cannabis has the ability to control gene expression.

For example, one plant might have a polymorphism that makes transcription of THCA-synthase very active (i.e a mutation that makes a transcription factor bind better to a specific suquence). This plant will produce a fuckton of THC-COOH when the transcription factor is produced (during the flowering stage of female plants).

Genetics is not a simple presence/no presence game, nor is it a simple Mendelian game. Every gene can be turned on and off, sometimes to different degrees.

The only way to ensure a consistent pheno would be to inbreed the plants many, many times. That or produce clones (or do both). This will concentrate a certain pattern of polymorphisms, but then comes to factor of how one grows the plant. Inbreeding can be a bad thing too, as it may concentrate negative phenotypes as well (recessive/dominant alleles come into play here as well). This is the same reason why inbred animals or humans are often prone to genetic diseases.

The end product is more complex than THC/CBD. There are density factors in the bud (the morphology of the plant). There are genetic factors that influence the presence of pigments, terpenes, cannabinoids, and proteins of interest in plants.

The only way to isolate a truly unique strain is to select a phenotype and concentrate it over and over again. It starts from a unique landrace and ends with a highly stabilized plant with a unique set of genetics.



So? THC is the only signcantly psychoactive in cannabis. Obviously there's a diffence in potency and hardness of the plants etc but the effects u get from it r the same between strain IME


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Echro]
    #19225217 - 12/04/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

How come hashish gives a very different high from bud then..?

I can sit and smoke nice Moroccan pollen all day, definitely be stoned as hell, but certain types of bud (Sativa) always give me panic attacks nowadays and I simply can't touch them anymore.

I smoked daily for over 15 years and there are without a single, solitary doubt some 'strains' I can sit and smoke all day and others that I can have a single toke of and know I'm going to feel sketched out. This is repeatable with the same types of bud or with certain kinds (most) of hashish versus the same "skunk" that makes me think the world is ending within 5 minutes...

:popcorn: :shrug:


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19225767 - 12/04/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

So? THC is the only signcantly psychoactive in cannabis. Obviously there's a diffence in potency and hardness of the plants etc but the effects u get from it r the same between strain IME




Far from the truth. We know that cannabidiol has a wide spectrum of effects that are indeed psychoactive. Alone, CBD is not psychoactive.

CBD is a 5HT1A receptor agonist. It is also an inverse agonist at the CB1 receptor. THC is only part of the picture.

THCV is a CBr antagonist (across the board). Terpenes might not affect the high a whole lot, but they sure as hell influence smell/flavor.

The other cannabinoids might not be extraordinarily abundant, but we have barely scratched the surface in terms of their potential effects in the human cannabinoid system.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: aperson444]
    #19225789 - 12/04/13 08:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

aperson444 said:
CBD is a 5HT1A receptor agonist. It is also an inverse agonist at the CB1 receptor. THC is only part of the picture.





Sure, the critical question though, is whether these pharmacological properties significantly effect the subjective profile.  At least enough to consistently account for a strain difference.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: badchad]
    #19226002 - 12/04/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

This guy has obviously never been to Northern California. Sure, people mislabel weed. But after spending a decade around pot growers, I could give you a close estimation of genetics simply from sight and smell.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19226179 - 12/04/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

egodeathflux said:
I can sit and smoke nice Moroccan pollen all day




Haha too funny, I just had to explain to somebody else that nobody smokes pollen. Pollen is only made by male plants, and it's not really something you want to smoke.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: empty space]
    #19226200 - 12/04/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I heard Terpenes can affect the way the cannabinoids hit you, i.e. that's why some buds have a "Creeper" high.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Echro]
    #19226247 - 12/04/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I've seen Jeffrey Raber and heard his lectures. Guy knows his stuff, but I think somethings throwing everyone off as to what it means. Basically he's stating strain or phenotype characteristics do not correspond with a specific psychological effect.

However he does emphasize the "entourage effect" playing a significant role in identifying consistent and preferable response(entourage effect is the theory that combinations of various terpenoids and cannabinoids have synergistic and unique effects).

He also points out the most accurate ways to test for the presence and amount of these molecules is through liquid chromatography, which many laboratories do not have access to and instead utilize gas chromatography to innacurately represent a few basic compounds like THC, CBD, and CBN. There is a way to test different strains for an intended effect but the strain name is irrelevant to that determination.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #19226258 - 12/04/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I think the title is just a little misleading then, eh?


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: aperson444]
    #19226262 - 12/04/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

aperson444 said:
Quote:

So? THC is the only signcantly psychoactive in cannabis. Obviously there's a diffence in potency and hardness of the plants etc but the effects u get from it r the same between strain IME




Far from the truth. We know that cannabidiol has a wide spectrum of effects that are indeed psychoactive. Alone, CBD is not psychoactive.

CBD is a 5HT1A receptor agonist. It is also an inverse agonist at the CB1 receptor. THC is only part of the picture.

THCV is a CBr antagonist (across the board). Terpenes might not affect the high a whole lot, but they sure as hell influence smell/flavor.

The other cannabinoids might not be extraordinarily abundant, but we have barely scratched the surface in terms of their potential effects in the human cannabinoid system.



U just said it urself, Cannabidiol is not psychoactive alone. The only thing that CBD and THCV r doing is taking the edge of the THC high. Also I'm 90% sure CBD is not an inverse agonist, if it was it'd have the complete opposite effects of THC, it's a partial agonist with an efficacy so low it acts as an antagonist. True about the terpenes


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #19226272 - 12/04/13 11:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
However he does emphasize the "entourage effect" playing a significant role in identifying consistent and preferable response(entourage effect is the theory that combinations of various terpenoids and cannabinoids have synergistic and unique effects).





So could it be argued that smoking oil concentrates is not ideal because you are separating the THC from it's "entourage"?


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19226281 - 12/04/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

egodeathflux said:
How come hashish gives a very different high from bud then..?

I can sit and smoke nice Moroccan pollen all day, definitely be stoned as hell, but certain types of bud (Sativa) always give me panic attacks nowadays and I simply can't touch them anymore.

I smoked daily for over 15 years and there are without a single, solitary doubt some 'strains' I can sit and smoke all day and others that I can have a single toke of and know I'm going to feel sketched out. This is repeatable with the same types of bud or with certain kinds (most) of hashish versus the same "skunk" that makes me think the world is ending within 5 minutes...

:popcorn: :shrug:





Because those strains were laced with bath salts probably . . .


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19226426 - 12/04/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

There is a big difference between a pure indica strain (blueberry or afgan) vs a sativa (haze strain).

Most strains are hybrids today, so maybe they are very similar in make up, but purer strains are different.

Maybe Dr.Know-it-all should smoke some up and then decide.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19226433 - 12/04/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm the strain king around here. I have noticed very large differences between Sativa and Indica.  Ive got some Master Kush a 50 Sativa, 50 Indica. Its trippy and stony as it should be.

I had some Purple Haze 100% Sativa it had no ceiling and was psychedellic as hell, kept me awake for 24 hours.  Some people arent effected by Sativa and need Indica to get any affect, some people arent affected by Indica and require Sativa.


Edited by downlowfunk (12/04/13 12:30 PM)


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19226508 - 12/04/13 12:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
However he does emphasize the "entourage effect" playing a significant role in identifying consistent and preferable response(entourage effect is the theory that combinations of various terpenoids and cannabinoids have synergistic and unique effects).





So could it be argued that smoking oil concentrates is not ideal because you are separating the THC from it's "entourage"?




Not necessarily, oil concentrates still contain terpenoids and other cannibinoids like CBD. It's also easier to test using LC/MS when its in concentrate form, the only instance where it would be detrimental is by using improper solvents or purging processes to make the concentrate which would deplete the amount of terpenoids in the "entourage".


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: qman]
    #19226521 - 12/04/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

qman said:
There is a big difference between a pure indica strain (blueberry or afgan) vs a sativa (haze strain).

Most strains are hybrids today, so maybe they are very similar in make up, but purer strains are different.

Maybe Dr.Know-it-all should smoke some up and then decide.




Jeffrey Raber is a medical patient, he personally tests the strain and does clinical testing on its chemical make-up. Sativa and Indica simply identify morphological traits, not the type of high you experience.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #19226728 - 12/04/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
Quote:

qman said:
There is a big difference between a pure indica strain (blueberry or afgan) vs a sativa (haze strain).

Most strains are hybrids today, so maybe they are very similar in make up, but purer strains are different.

Maybe Dr.Know-it-all should smoke some up and then decide.




Jeffrey Raber is a medical patient, he personally tests the strain and does clinical testing on its chemical make-up. Sativa and Indica simply identify morphological traits, not the type of high you experience.





Are you implying there is no difference in the "high you experience" between pure indica and pure sativa marijuana?


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: qman]
    #19227124 - 12/04/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Are you implying there is no difference in the "high you experience" between pure indica and pure sativa marijuana?






:nodofunderstanding:


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: LiquidGlass]
    #19230383 - 12/05/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
Quote:

egodeathflux said:
I can sit and smoke nice Moroccan pollen all day




Haha too funny, I just had to explain to somebody else that nobody smokes pollen. Pollen is only made by male plants, and it's not really something you want to smoke.





You obviously don't know very much about hashish... Pollen is maybe the most widely smoked single type of cannabis smoked in Europe.

'Pollen' is the universal term used in Europe (and possibly elsewhere by people who know what they are talking about) for hashish made in traditional manner they use in Morocco, 90%+ of the stuff I have ever seen in the last 20 years or so has been from North Africa.

It is highly sought after depending on quality and grade - "00" being arguably the best, it uses a '00' mesh micron screen or similar filter, though some think the slightly larger micron screens/filters produce a more oil heavy and hence different, sometimes stronger product. Pollen is sold widely in Dutch coffee shops, and is often some of the finest stuff on the menu. The plants may well be pollinated as they grow outdoors on mountain sides in the Rif Valley, that is entirely different from smoking a male plant...

Then again Jamaican/West Indian/Caribbean sess weed is pollinated too, and by far the best pot I have ever smoked, certainly the most expensive.





Quote:

LiquidGlass said:
Quote:

egodeathflux said:
How come hashish gives a very different high from bud then..?

I can sit and smoke nice Moroccan pollen all day, definitely be stoned as hell, but certain types of bud (Sativa) always give me panic attacks nowadays and I simply can't touch them anymore.

I smoked daily for over 15 years and there are without a single, solitary doubt some 'strains' I can sit and smoke all day and others that I can have a single toke of and know I'm going to feel sketched out. This is repeatable with the same types of bud or with certain kinds (most) of hashish versus the same "skunk" that makes me think the world is ending within 5 minutes...

:popcorn: :shrug:





Because those strains were laced with bath salts probably . . .




I think the other few dozen people smoking the same bud would notice if RC's were sprayed all over it, also after around 20 years of smoking bud, I think the smell/taste/look/effect of such an adulterated product would be immediately obvious.. Maybe think before you type..? Just an idea.

:cookiemonster:


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux] * 1
    #19230408 - 12/05/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe all those people in Europe should look up the definition of pollen then. Kief and pollen are not the same thing.


Edited by Ran-D (12/05/13 09:10 AM)


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19230474 - 12/05/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe there is a world outside California...and it has been smoking hashish for 1000's years longer than California has even existed as a part of Western culture..

Spoiler alert: there are language differences outside your neighbourhood. Sorry to burst your insulated bubble.

:cookiemonster:

EDIT: I just realised you ACTUALLY BELIEVED that people smoke the pollen of male plants and have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about.

:cuteshit: awwww, sweet.


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Edited by egodeathflux (12/05/13 09:38 AM)


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19230492 - 12/05/13 09:41 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No, I don't think people smoke pollen, that's the whole fucking point. :facepalm:

I'm saying there is NO reason to use the term pollen. And my definition of pollen is not an American definition, come on now. I don't see what is hard to understand about this.

They smoke hash, and they call it pollen for no apparent reason.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19230500 - 12/05/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

"Kief (sometimes transliterated as keef or kif) refers to the resin glands (or trichomes) of cannabis which may accumulate in containers or be sifted from loose dry cannabis flower with a mesh screen or sieve. Kief contains a much higher concentration of psychoactive cannabinoids, such as THC, than that of the cannabis flowers from which it is derived. Traditionally, kief has been pressed into cakes of hashish for convenience in storage, but can be vaporized or smoked in either form."



"According to the Oxford dictionary, the word "kif" derives from Arabic: تكيف kayf, meaning well-being or pleasure..."


So the origin is Arabic, probably dating back to the Moorish influence and is exactly the same thing as 'pollen' refers to. You just don't know much about anything outside the US; now I have seen EVERYTHING, a self-absorbed American with no clue about the rest of the world?? NO...FREAKING.....WAY. :eek:


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19230504 - 12/05/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What the fuck don't you grasp about this concept?

Way to be snobby and completely look past my point.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19230507 - 12/05/13 09:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
No, I don't think people smoke pollen, that's the whole fucking point. :facepalm:

I'm saying there is NO reason to use the term pollen. And my definition of pollen is not an American definition, come on now. I don't see what is hard to understand about this.

They smoke hash, and they call it pollen for no apparent reason.





You are ignorant. Pollen is a term that has been used widely in Europe for decades to describe exactly what I am talking about.. You never known slang to be used for weed? Or for a word to have more than one meaning or reference??

COME ON!!!  :cookiemonster:


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19230513 - 12/05/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That is a terrible slang is all I'm saying. Absolutely terrible. Some dumbass a long time must have thought the hash looked like pollen and the name has stuck ever since, now you just have to defend it with all your might. Get over it.


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19230514 - 12/05/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
What the fuck don't you grasp about this concept?

Way to be snobby and completely look past my point.





You don't realise your point, dumbo. Your point is you know nothing about the history and lingo of Cannabis outside of California in the last 4-5 years.

There is nothing to get. You are just trying to dig yourself out of a hole of ignorance, rather than admit perhaps you don't know everything.

Done with you, the sun has gone to your head and you are probably too baked on MMJ to process thoughts properly.


:cookiemonster:


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19230520 - 12/05/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Ran-D said:
That is a terrible slang is all I'm saying. Absolutely terrible. Some dumbass a long time must have thought the hash looked like pollen and the name has stuck ever since, now you just have to defend it with all your might. Get over it.





Not defending anything. It is a fact, as you rightly (1st time for everything) say it was brought into use a long time ago, perhaps and probably a long time before THC was even known about or isolated.


:cookiemonster:


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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19230522 - 12/05/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Why am I arguing with a naive American teenager??

I feel silly for wasting my time and effort. :suicide:


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19230526 - 12/05/13 09:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Your argument is that I've never heard of people smoking hash, give me a fucking break.


My argument is that pollen refers to a powder made by male plants and there is no reason anyone should have ever referred to hash as pollen. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm saying it's stupid.


You're talking to someone who studies plant science, already has a major in agriculture, and someone who has lived in the number 1 cannabis producing county in the entire world.


Edited by Ran-D (12/05/13 09:56 AM)


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19230541 - 12/05/13 09:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Oh and I didn't once try to attack your credibility, way to have a conversation.


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: Ran-D]
    #19230579 - 12/05/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I guess the whole thing is about as dumb as people saying they smoke "weed". This is only true for people who smoke wild cannabis, since if it's cultivated it does not qualify as a weed.

So there ya go, we all use stupid terms.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: egodeathflux]
    #19230619 - 12/05/13 10:27 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

egodeathflux said:
Spoiler alert: there are language differences outside your neighbourhood.




How is it that while trying to make a point you fail to see the point applies to you as well?


Quote:

Sorry to burst your insulated bubble.




You should come out of your bubble. Why would you expect everyone to use the same slang you and your buddies do?

That many have been using the word incorrectly for years, doesn't mean all have to or even that they are aware of the incorrect usage.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19230701 - 12/05/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

it's like when people call the tar in their bowl "RESIN". ahhh. no, it is not resin dude.  at least actual resin would actually get you high. :ilold:


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InvisibleRan-D
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: D.M.T]
    #19230729 - 12/05/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
it's like when people call the tar in their bowl "RESIN". ahhh. no, it is not resin dude.  at least actual resin would actually get you high. :ilold:




Good point. That one is so commonly used the wrong way that I actually cringe when I hear it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: D.M.T]
    #19230744 - 12/05/13 11:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
it's like when people call the tar in their bowl "RESIN". ahhh. no, it is not resin dude.




Yup. An incorrect usage of a word that not all use, which was exactly the point.

One that an earlier poster failed to grasp in his outrage over not everyone sharing the same slang.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleLiquidGlass
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Re: Marijuana Strains Like OG Kush Are Meaningless, Expert Says [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19231285 - 12/05/13 01:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

You obviously don't know very much about hashish... Pollen is maybe the most widely smoked single type of cannabis smoked in Europe.






You obviously know do not know very much about the anatomy of cannabis plants, or plants in general. Have you seen a male cannabis plant go into flowering? Have you seen the little yellow flowers open up and spit out a bunch of yellow dust? THAT is pollen. The trichomes do not in any way visually resemble pollen, nor do they come anywhere close to the function of what actual pollen does.



Quote:

'Pollen' is the universal term used in Europe (and possibly elsewhere by people who know what they are talking about




No. People who know what they are talking about know what pollen is, and know that hash is nowhere near pollen.


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I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head
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