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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Tetraploid shrooms?
#19222266 - 12/03/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Back in the 1980s, herb was herb. Then cultvators came along who with use of colchicine produced tetraploid cannabis, they called it Skunk, and with it laid the foundation for the superweed we have today.
Tetraploid organisms have not one but two pairs of each chromosome. As a result they tend to be bigger, more robust, tend to be more efficient in metabolizing their substrate and tend to have a higher content of actives.
Picture a more rapid growing, bigger, meatier Cubensis thats stronger than liberty caps, or a more aggressive Azurescens which routinely has about 3% actives.
They would be new varieties, requiring spores of their own kind to reproduce.
It would be simply the original strain of mushroom, but with the genetic material doubled up in the cell, like skunkweed is to regular weed. Tetraploid shrooms anyone?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19222309 - 12/03/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So how is it done? Is it possible or just an idea?
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Tetraploidation is done on all sorts of organisms. What you are basically doing is add a substance like colchicine or trifluralin to living cells, and during their replication their chromosomes double up.
With weed seeds it was done with a solution of colchicine or even a tea from colchicum autumnale, the seeds were soaked in that, then planted. Most died but some emerged from this treatment tetraploid and more robust.
What immediately comes to mind is tainting liquid culture with a polyploidy inducing substance, letting it sit for a bit, then putting drops of it onto agar and isolating the most vigorous growers via sectoring, followed by turning the purified cultures to LC and injecting them into substrates to have them fruit.
It can be done OTC, colchicum autumnale bulbs are available at garden centers and can be made into a polyploidy inducing extract. Also, soime cannabis grow shops carry Colchicine, whih is quite toxic, as a pure compound.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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monoculture
Mycaddict



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19222498 - 12/03/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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As far as I know, they treated seeds with it because normal cells would die instantly when exposed to colchicine. So to apply this to shrooms, I think the best bet is using it on spores that are not germinated yet? I also understand colchicine is very dangerous to yourself, so I would not advice anyone experimenting with it before thorough study first.
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shopdropper
Professional Psychonaut


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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19222518 - 12/03/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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care to elaborate more on how to turn it into a polyploidy inducing extract? wonder how well claviceps would handle this (mutation?)?
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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vertygo
Stranger



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-------------------- +++ Trade List +++
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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I have researched the matter a bit deeper and came to an awesome colchicine replacement.
There's a herbicide by the name of Oryzalin which is even more active as an inducer of polyploidy yet much less toxic to humans, which also is very available.
Oryzalin can be had as a 40% solution as the herbicide Surflan A.S. and the recommended concentration for inducing polyploidy is 0.005%, which means that 0.1ml of the 40% herbicide can render 800ml water effective in inducing polyploidy.
And yes there will be massive cell death, but the cells of the liquid culture that live will have a high degree of polyploidy among it.
Its best to abandon Colchicine completely and go for Oryzalin as its much better for the purpose, dramatically less toxic and way more available for less cost.
Regarding toxicity, the Oral LD50 in rats is 26mg/kg for Colchicine and 5000mg/kg for Oryzalin showing reduction in toxicity from highly toxic to harmful.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19223421 - 12/03/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So to dumb it down a bit:
Create a non-monoculture LC. Add Oryzalin at a concentration of %.005 and then use it for inoculation and look for success? The results should be Tetraploid?
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shopdropper
Professional Psychonaut


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thats what i got out of it lol.. will keep this in mind. ive seen colchicine effected weed plants they have werd shaped leaves with odd numbers, i had no idea it could mutate fungi. this is in effect a mutagen?
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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laughingsol
Dirt Farmer


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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19224118 - 12/03/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Picture a more rapid growing, bigger, meatier Cubensis thats stronger than liberty caps, or a more aggressive Azurescens which routinely has about 3% actives.
According to David Moore- fungal morphogenesis, essential fungal genetics- multiploidy among fungi is quite rare.
-------------------- Be Well, Be Blessed Trade List
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magicbroncoride
barbaric neanderthal

Registered: 05/27/13
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What about taking a spore print and using this solution instead of water? Wouldn't you want as diverse genetics as possible to start? Or am I just not getting it? Damnit now I will be up all night reading.
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dusttodust


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 491
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19229892 - 12/05/13 02:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: There's a herbicide by the name of Oryzalin which is even more active as an inducer of polyploidy yet much less toxic to humans, which also is very available.
How would an herbicide work on fungi?
Also, I was in Afghanistan in 1974 to 1975. The good weed there all smelled like skunk. I'm not sure I can buy into colchicine being responsible for that. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19229906 - 12/05/13 02:59 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Is there a way to distinguish a tetrakaryote from a dikaryote?
Like under the scope?
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g3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist

Registered: 09/29/13
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? *DELETED* [Re: teknix]
#19230864 - 12/05/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Poorly worded info.
Edited by g3n3h4x0r (05/20/14 10:04 AM)
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g3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist

Registered: 09/29/13
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? *DELETED* [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
#19230935 - 12/05/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Poorly worded info.
Edited by g3n3h4x0r (05/20/14 10:04 AM)
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laughingsol
Dirt Farmer


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Posts: 389
Loc: The beautiful hills of Io...
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
#19232188 - 12/05/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
g3n3h4x0r said: Also, the haploid and diploid mycelium/spores would not differ enough and would likely mate. This would be a triploid fruit, which I have no idea what it would do. Regardless, cultures would need separated.
It seems to me that this just needs to be approached carefully as to not waste all of your time.
I don't think this is quite right. The haploid and diploid can mate, assuming they're compatible- but it only results in all diploid mycelium. Only one set of chromosomes from the diploid factors in the mating in these instances.
-------------------- Be Well, Be Blessed Trade List
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Why are you guys still calling it haploid and diploid? No such thing in the kingdom of fungus.
Edited by teknix (12/05/13 09:30 PM)
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laughingsol
Dirt Farmer


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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: teknix]
#19234073 - 12/05/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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touche
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day


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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: teknix]
#19235583 - 12/06/13 09:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Why are you guys still calling it haploid and diploid? No such thing in the kingdom of fungus.
Not true. Fungal spores are haploid. A fungal zygote is diploid.
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand



Registered: 04/24/12
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--------------------
AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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Topcorn
False idol



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19241846 - 12/07/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Back in the 1980s, herb was herb. Then cultvators came along who with use of colchicine produced tetraploid cannabis, they called it Skunk, and with it laid the foundation for the superweed we have today.
You are wrong, ever heard of selective breeding? People who think potent strains of cannabis did not exist until after the 60s/70s are just spewing bullshit. I am not saying much hasn't been improved in the last few decades but that was the result of many peoples hard work in searching for new genetics and testing seed after seed for the rare gems that made up most of the gene pool we smoke today.
Much can be done with selective breeding. For instance, corn was bred from regular sized grain ancestors and broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale and kohlrabi all were bred from a single ancestor(Brassica, wild mustard). Yes these took a long time to come about and in the case with cannabis there seems a steep rise in quality of genetics over just decades. But with cannabis we haven't done much but combine naturally occurring high cannabinoid plants with each other, the sudden flood of quality resulted from the sudden rise in numbers of people searching for quality and growing their own shit.
-------------------- Slayer of robot dinosaurs in a futuristic landscape
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Topcorn]
#19241949 - 12/07/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Amanita virosa
botanist by day


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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Topcorn]
#19242149 - 12/07/13 06:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Topcorn said:
Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said: Back in the 1980s, herb was herb. Then cultvators came along who with use of colchicine produced tetraploid cannabis, they called it Skunk, and with it laid the foundation for the superweed we have today.
You are wrong, ever heard of selective breeding? People who think potent strains of cannabis did not exist until after the 60s/70s are just spewing bullshit. I am not saying much hasn't been improved in the last few decades but that was the result of many peoples hard work in searching for new genetics and testing seed after seed for the rare gems that made up most of the gene pool we smoke today.
Much can be done with selective breeding. For instance, corn was bred from regular sized grain ancestors and broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, kale and kohlrabi all were bred from a single ancestor(Brassica, wild mustard). Yes these took a long time to come about and in the case with cannabis there seems a steep rise in quality of genetics over just decades. But with cannabis we haven't done much but combine naturally occurring high cannabinoid plants with each other, the sudden flood of quality resulted from the sudden rise in numbers of people searching for quality and growing their own shit.
And Lets not forget what 10,000 years of artificial selection did to the dog
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand



Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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Quote:
Amanita virosa said:
And Lets not forget what 10,000 years of artificial selection did to the dog
Thankfully mushroom generations are much shorter
--------------------
AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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I have a triploid cannabis plant which occurred naturally on the third generation since I got it. It's a dj short strain, and they're advertised as organic. It's the only triploid plant I've ever seen so it will be interesting to see what comes of it. The original ten seeds were from his blueberry sativa crossed to his blueberry indica. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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g3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist

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Let me know if you test this. I have an Agro transform I'm doing in a few months, and it would be ridiculous if I could induce pluripotency afterward. It would be a whole new strain.
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shopdropper
Professional Psychonaut


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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
#19247990 - 12/08/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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that's really sweet. dj short was the originator of the blueberry strain correct? id like to see some pics of this triploid plant! did it start out with 3 leaves?
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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caricapapaya
Stranger



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"I have a triploid cannabis plant which occurred naturally on the third generation since I got it. It's a dj short strain, and they're advertised as organic. It's the only triploid plant I've ever seen so it will be interesting to see what comes of it. The original ten seeds were from his blueberry sativa crossed to his blueberry indica. RR"
How do you know it is triploid?
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand




Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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My question is; how would you test for a tetraploid mushroom? Am I looking for a two foot high mushroom, or is it going to be respectively denser tissue? Or something only observable under magnification? Can it be observed at all? I apologize if I'm missing something obvious, this is very interesting and I agree worth the effort. I would just like to know the acceptable measurement of success.
--------------------
AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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urthtown
meat popsicle


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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: teknix]
#19288108 - 12/17/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Why are you guys still calling it haploid and diploid? No such thing in the kingdom of fungus.
-------------------- Cluster Headache sufferer? Cluster Busting Veil Tear GIF Flower Pot Grow GIF Mini Mono Tub GIFS "All mushrooms are edible, but some only once." -- Croatian Proverb
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fastfred
Old Hand



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: urthtown]
#19306069 - 12/21/13 01:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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spore baby



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#19306129 - 12/21/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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.
Edited by spore baby (12/13/14 04:07 AM)
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
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Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Well the good news is that we have people like Alan Rockefeller and Workman who actually have degrees and licenses to work with psychoactive mushrooms. If you did come close to pulling this off, I bet either of those guys would jump on the chance to do some analytical work, or have it done.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19307646 - 12/21/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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-One uses torture to become stronger and then either one comes out with tremendous power, or broken diagonally..
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Quote:
spore baby said: Unless you have access to a genetics laboratory there will be no way for you determine if it even worked.
Sending mushrooms to a government laboratory to get tested will be a bad idea. 
Karyotyping is not difficult. All you need is some myc on a slide, the right stain, and a good scope.
-FF
-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand




Registered: 04/24/12
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Chapter 26
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: fastfred]
#19311184 - 12/22/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Quote:
spore baby said: Unless you have access to a genetics laboratory there will be no way for you determine if it even worked.
Sending mushrooms to a government laboratory to get tested will be a bad idea. 
Karyotyping is not difficult. All you need is some myc on a slide, the right stain, and a good scope.
-FF
What am I looking for under these conditions?
Edit: found information on Google... wow, very interesting stuff
--------------------
AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
Edited by WillSolvem (12/22/13 09:47 AM)
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aris
Feline Bovine

Registered: 07/20/10
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: aris]
#19335410 - 12/28/13 02:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"Karyotype analyses are performed over 400,000 times per year in the U.S. and Canada." "A karyotype analysis usually involves staining the condensed chromosomes with Giemsa dye."
Just dye them and scope them!
No need to fix and section them with a microtome since you should be able to get the myc network growing in a single layer.
Finding a cell in the right stage of mitosis should not be terribly difficult if you use an actively growing culture.
Doesn't get much easier than this for genetic analysis techniques!
-FF
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That Man
Common Goer



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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#19849791 - 04/15/14 04:56 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said:
Very interesting!
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MonkeyJesusFresco
am i suspended in agar?



Registered: 10/09/12
Posts: 3,306
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: fastfred]
#19850878 - 04/15/14 08:19 PM (9 years, 9 months ago) |
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Okay, I'll bite.
here is a list of things I can get:
a 40x-2000x microscope (w/camera)
Giemsa stain
living culture
...now what?
I don't even know what to google :/
...I don't even know what I'm asking!
edit:
okay, this: Karyotype analyses
I wanna do that!
-------------------- LAGM v 2.024 - endo cabendo
Edited by MonkeyJesusFresco (04/15/14 08:20 PM)
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WillSolvem
Odd-Hand




Registered: 04/24/12
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Loc: Chapter 26
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Log in to view attachment
Start here brother
--------------------
AMU Q&A Thread because questions deserve answers.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
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MonkeyJesusFresco
am i suspended in agar?



Registered: 10/09/12
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Thanks!
-------------------- LAGM v 2.024 - endo cabendo
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grasshopperwilkins
Triked



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hw do i agree with rodger 4 months 21 days ago?
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piratez
Unflamable

Registered: 04/21/14
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Loc: i dont knoe
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I don't get it. has never been done before?
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spore baby



Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 4,918
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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.
Edited by spore baby (12/13/14 04:07 AM)
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker



Registered: 06/18/02
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I was looking for the genome length and the Fungi DNA database is pretty empty. Do we even know how many chromosomes P cubensis has?
There isn't much to go on.
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spore baby



Registered: 07/30/13
Posts: 4,918
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Feelers]
#20007692 - 05/18/14 11:09 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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.
Edited by spore baby (12/13/14 04:07 AM)
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g3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 73
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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I was reading through this thread and it's misleading in every way.
------------------------------------------------------------------- Plants:
Triploid cannabis solely exists because the plant in a triploid state is sterile. Interestingly, it also produces strictly female flowers since they are 'default' This creates the bud covered plants we love. There are many ways to do this and it usually involves chemical treatment of the seed.
- There are 'feminized' plants as well, but this is a breeding process.
- Stop making claims about a plant we know so little about (although that's changing). I'm sure tetraploid marijuana strains exist, but evolution is ROBUST. These plants usually have other problems or are more difficult to raise. In the era where we can get 30% THC + with medical cultivation, many people have no reason to create a super, super weed when it's more difficult to raise.
This is also seen in bananas, which are only so fleshy because they're triploid and do not produce massive amounts of seeds. Bananas in a diploid (wild type) state are completely stuffed with seeds and inedible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- Mushrooms:
I can't say whether tetraploid mushrooms are possible, although I would guess there are probably some in nature.
But seriously, consider the fungal reproductive cycle from your Mycology 101 class, especially the species of interest. The mycelium that grows and crawls all over is haploid [1N] and only has one set of chromosomes. It fuses to create a diploid [2N] body which turns into the mushroom.
NOW, come on people - it's this easy. If we have a hypothetical fungus with 3N number of chromosomes, how many sets/pairs of chromosomes are in the spores?
It CANT be 3N, because we know our reproductive chart - it goes through meiosis. Is it 1N or 2N? If it's ONLY 1N, we end up with normal diploid mushrooms. If it's ONLY 2N, we have tetraploid mushrooms.
How can we seriously propagate a 3N mushroom? If we had a mixture of 1N and 2N spores, which grew on some medium, are the 1N and 2N mycelium even compatible to mix? If not, then we have diploid and tetraploid fruits - we can't choose. If so, we have diploid, triploid, and tetraploid fruits - we can't choose. We can determine which type of fruiting body we have through karyotyping, but ultimately triploid mushrooms just don't seem viable - I can't predict what might happen.
It seems the general consensus is that we can create 1.5N spores, which 1.99N is lethal in every creature on the planet (edit: not really, but if we're just flipping coins to remove half of a set of chromosomes, it's going to be lethal).
-------------------------------------------------------------------- Experimentation:
Now, if someone wants to create a Tetraploid body, the question needs to be proposed, WHEN DO WE TREAT THE ORGANISM? We don't have a circular reproductive cycle - this is the main question. We can't just slather chemicals on spores, mycelium, or mushrooms and expect polyploid individuals.
It ultimately seems that the fruit body needs treated prior to spore development in such a way that it produces 2N spores - I don't think mycelium could be induced to be 2N (genes just don't work that way).
If someone wanted to test this, I would grow 1/2 pint cakes, find a chemical capable of INTERRUPTING MEIOSIS (colchicine is an actual possibility - you need to make sure they have actual effects on meiosis and not some novel effect in the organism), dissolve it in water in varying concentrations, and do the 24hr dunk in the bath. The idea is to break up the meiotic cycle and cause 2N and 0N spores to be produced by eliminating the tubules that join the chromosomes. Crude karyotyping would need to be done to count the chromosome #'s, proper mushrooms would need spore prints taken or placed onto agar. I'm pretty comfortable in saying 0N spores are going to be lethals, so we could only expect 2N spores/myc to exist.
In other words, if you could create a 4N mushroom, it would seem pretty simple to propagate it. But there's also a billion mechanisms species have to prevent this or fix it by the next generation, which I'm going to guess no one knows for fungi (yet), so this is going to be a hefty project involving many chemicals and microscopy.
Edited by g3n3h4x0r (05/20/14 10:42 AM)
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Feelers
Anti-Myth-Rhythm-Rock-Shocker



Registered: 06/18/02
Posts: 1,806
Loc: Land of Oz
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
#20023561 - 05/22/14 05:03 AM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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The genetics of fungi are more complicated in regards to chromosomes than plants are. For example, chromosomes and material can be shared between different cells.

It can get pretty crazy, the normal rules don't really apply, and in fungi they are often not well understood either.
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g3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 73
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Feelers]
#20027024 - 05/22/14 09:05 PM (9 years, 8 months ago) |
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This is more recombination - a concept to mix genes. This is the prevailing mechanism behind evolution.
Although, the fusion of some nuclei is interesting. I can't really determine if this would be a problem. I'll look into it shortly, I don't see the heterozygosity being an issue, but if the chromosome count can vary, the haploid/diploid state may be 'default' and polyploidy very... difficult? I can't say impossible.
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Wrath
Stranger

Registered: 03/25/11
Posts: 209
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Asante]
#20273390 - 07/14/14 08:32 PM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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Polyploids are an extra set of chromosomes as we all know. Oryzalin is a good agent (along with one that starts with a "T" that we use ;-). The "C" agent is not used commercially anymore. Basically; Soak seeds In Oryzalin (or better yet the other one ;-) ) for 36 hrs. Rinse for 6 hours. 50% die, 50% mutate (polyploid). Larger/longer/glossier leaves. There are other steps/agents we use (capsicum is sometimes used). Lillies were some of the first to be done in the late 1970s (legally), but it dates back to the turn of the 1900s as to the first person that tried this. It is a well known (albeit guarded secret for exact ratios-you can find the steps, but we never share the ratios :-D) process. This process takes years or time/patience b4 it hits market. I'm actually about to run some agar solution in a bit to replicate some canna hybrids we did. Anyways, mushies are a whole diff ball game compared to plants...I play around with it (no results) but RR is the one that will patent it first tho... My main interested is glow in the dark grasses!
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Bumbaclotjohnson
Sequoia Farmer



Registered: 01/12/14
Posts: 1,067
Loc: USA
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: Tetraploid shrooms? [Re: Wrath]
#20323337 - 07/24/14 07:57 PM (9 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- FREE PRINTS I lie a lot on the internet.
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