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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Help with walk-in GH humidity, please.
#19221277 - 12/03/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have read so much on dialing in grow areas over the past year, and the general consensus is that each grow room is unique in it's requirements. So I asking for help figuring this out. Since I have to work, spend time with the girlfriend and family, and squeeze in time for mycology stuffs, I can't keep battling to keep the RH in my walk-in GH correct.
I originally used a warm-mist humidifier (I know, so shush! It's what I had.) on the floor inside the GH with an added fan on top of it to distribute the moisture quickly. It doesn't effect the temps in the GH much at all, but the RH drops too much in between cycles and I have to fill it every day (1G reserve). Plus the fan is only on when the humidifier is. I used this until I had the funds to buy parts to build a ultrasonic bucket system, which the ultrasonic unit crapped out on me before I could get it dialed in right. One disk didn't seem to be enough mist anyways (how many do I need for 160 cubic ft), so I have since gone back to the warm-mist system until I can get more disk units and a floater for them. But now that it's colder again and the RH outside of the GH is around 30% the RH swings in between cycles are even worse.
The GH does a pretty good job of holding in the humidity from leeching out to the surrounding basement air, as I only have a hand full of vent holes (6x 1/8" square holes above the door area). I do not have any intake holes cut. The GH is located in the old coal room in my basement and fits snugly in the 4'x12' room (see pics below). Since there isn't a floor drain in the area, I cut the bottom skirting off the GH so that air can flow between the outside wall of the GH and the block walls. My home is over 120 years old so mold can be an issue if I allow the basement RH to get too high, so I need to contain my RH inside the GH. Once a month or so I do use a pump sprayer with bleach water to treat the basement area and hand clean the interior of the GH, along with proper moppings.
What I need is a system designed to my specific requirements. I need a larger reservoir so I can fill it once a week, or so. I want to be able to grow a variety of edible/medicinal species, so I need to be able to adjust the system depending on the conditions needed for whatever species I'm growing. The ambient temperature of the basement is around 75F in the summer and 40F in the winter. Currently I heat the GH with an oil radiator heater, and have my humidification unit inside the GH. There is space outside the GH (on the door side) for an exterior unit and I don't mind cutting the GH to pipe it in if needed. The GH has 12 shelves (2 rows of 3 on each side), plus floor area under the shelves for buckets or tubs. I want to be able to produce enough mushrooms for friends and family, plus a couple of restaurants.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't have a lot of money to put into it, but I am good at building what I need. If you need any more info, or pics, to help please let me know. Here is a link to the GH I have, http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/castlecreek-deluxe-walk-in-greenhouse.aspx?a=1132039, and pics of it installed.
   
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deadjesusrodeo
Stranger

Registered: 10/21/13
Posts: 26
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Help with walk-in GH humidity, please. [Re: ghiajake]
#19221330 - 12/03/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I use an ultrasonic and a cool mist humidifier in my greenhouse but I also keep wet perlite in it. The cool mist (impeller) draws air from a slit at the bottom, across the surface of the perlite, into the machine and then upward throughout the greenhouse. Meanwhile, the ultrasonic runs at the very top and sprinkles all the trays with fine mist. Such a setup creates great circulation throughout. 85% on the upper shelves and 95% on the bottom, so trays are arranged based on their growth phase.
That said, yours is about 12x bigger than mine, so your water requirement will be approximately that much more for your space. I go through about a gallon every 2-3 days. Put it this way, I fill up both every other day.
I've also found that when there are 18 trays in my greenhouse, i have to dial back the humidifiers compared to when there are 4 trays in. So the large open, walk-in area might be a bit detrimental to what you're trying to do.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Help with walk-in GH humidity, please. [Re: deadjesusrodeo]
#19221414 - 12/03/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey ghiajake!
I'll start by saying that trying modifications like piping in the humidity is more trouble than it's worth. The pipes get gross and it doesn't end up working that well anyway unless you run the tubing split to near every shelf.
Secondly, modifying humidifers to get larger reservoirs is NOT a good idea either IMO. Those mods are annoying and must be done carefully and can get messy. If you keep a large stock of water in there, you'll need to be dumping hydrogen peroxide in it with each fill, and when you clean the humidifier it will be Really Bad.
Much better would be reducing the amount of water used that's required to keep humidity up. What you've been doing puts off a lot of water in order to get the result.
I use an ultrasonic humidifier, unmodified, combined with a small fan on the same timer for distributing its mist into the chamber and stirring it into the air. If you don't do that somehow, the mist droplets will not become humidity inside the already-humid environment, falling to the floor as water and leaving your humidity a bit lacking.
By combining an ultrasonic humidifier with a fan on a single short-interval timer, I run the humidifier 1-2 minutes every 40, keeping 98-100% humidity in my chamber and eliminating the need for misting by having regular tiny droplets "misting" the casing/substrate more gently than a spray bottle would.
Since the ultrasonic humidifier only runs maximum 1/15th of the time, refilling the humidifer is more of a weekly thing rather than daily, cleaning and refilling it both done quickly at the same time.
Of course, mine ran so little because I did not automate air exchange; don't have to with my many small grain substrates. My greenhouse was usually set up for either "passive" or "manual" air exchange since they get what they need from harvesting/watering/checking daily.
If you choose to automate air exchange in your greenhouse, there are 2 major considerations for it.
1. You will always get huge RH swing drops if you're blowing outside air in without humidification before it's blown in. The way to get your air wet before blowing in would be piping in a stream from a humidifer that both blows air and saturates it with humidity. I know of only one filterless impeller and blower humidifer that's ideal for the job. Vicks v4500.
2. Blowing in air that's under 100%RH can cause substrate drying problems near where the air is coming in. In general, fans cause huge vortexes within the chamber they're attached to. If you don't go by my option 1 suggestion, there are 2 things you could do combined with an ultrasonic humidifier to automate air exchange with fans to reap the benefits without having to juggle disadvantages: A. Put some kind of home air filter between the attached fan and the inside of the filter. Air will be forced through indeed, but Gently with no vortex, and with a gradual limited flow instead of forceful instant replacement of all the humid air in the chamber. B. Use a very small and gentle fan instead! I think that video card fans are Perfect. Let the air exchange be gradual and gentle instead of forced in an instant.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Re: Help with walk-in GH humidity, please. [Re: Violet]
#19221473 - 12/03/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank you both for your input.
Violet: Good to here from ya. I have been debating just getting one of the vicks humidifiers. It does seem so much simplier. I really don't need an automated air exchange so we can forget about that, and I do like the idea of keeping heat/humidity sources inside the GH. The large area inside the GH and me going in and out of it once a day or so is enough to exchange the air passively. The fan I have now is a clip on desk fan, which I'm sure creates two much airflow. Can you post a pic of how your ultrasonic is set up, and do I need to worry about positioning it in the GH or can I set it up in a corner?
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Re: Help with walk-in GH humidity, please. [Re: ghiajake]
#19221511 - 12/03/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Re-reading you GH Tek again, btw.
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Re: Help with walk-in GH humidity, please. [Re: ghiajake]
#19221607 - 12/03/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, re-read complete. So the GH in the tek seems to be about 1/3 the cubic foot mine is, roughly. In it you are using two USH units. Would the v4500 handle my GH by itself, should I get two, or it and a USH? And does it matter for higher density fruits like Lion's Mane, etc?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Help with walk-in GH humidity, please. [Re: ghiajake]
#19221977 - 12/03/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't have to use two humidifiers, I just wanted to anyway.
The v4500 isn't an ultrasonic humidifier at least by the strict definition. In the myco sense it may could be thought of as a coolmist but doesn't really fit that bill perfectly either. It blows out 100% humid air and plenty of air too, no joke. It could handle a greenhouse by itself. I'm tempted to say it could handle any reasonably-sized greenhouse Period, since at what point would moisture be lost from that constant stream of 100%RH air? But I've not used it to one the size of yours. Honestly I've only used it for a GH setup once.
As for different fruits, I'd say it depends on if they need different environments. If you're going for keeping a stable humidity, it will require figuring out exactly how often to bounce USH runs considering the given air exchange.
I have no perfect answer for the question of keeping exactly a certain humidity range past stabilizing all other room conditions and then dialing-in the RH carefully in such a way.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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ghiajake
Myco-Viking


Registered: 01/10/13
Posts: 3,846
Loc: Indiana
Last seen: 1 day, 19 hours
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Re: Help with walk-in GH humidity, please. [Re: Violet]
#19223171 - 12/03/13 05:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The heat and air exchange is relatively dialed in. I do plan on insulting the outside of the roof of the GH to control the temp better, but it really isn't needed. I think I'll start of with the v4500, instead of getting another ultrasonic fogger. If the one doesn't handle it then I'll get another one. I will need to get a different timer as my current one only has 30 minute increments. Thanks for the help, I'll update here once I get the unit.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: Help with walk-in GH humidity, please. [Re: ghiajake]
#19223479 - 12/03/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You may have seen this link already since you've seen my relevant posts, but these common timers modified for short-cycle are really simple to work up from dirt cheap. 48 50-second intervals, 40 minute cycle. In a nutshell you're just gluing two gears together to turn their 1:36 ratio into 1:1, shorting a day's cycle to 40min and each 30min interval to 50 seconds. It makes controlled timing and condition fine-tuning easy and affordable AKA possible.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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