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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227441 - 12/04/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
When has prohibition ever worked for anything ever?



Wow...That'd be a long list.  Prohibition has proven to be highly effective at altering people's behavior.  Except in the context of drugs and alcohol, prohibition works pretty fucking well.

You don't see a lot of DDT being sprayed, do you?




100 million dead Africans do not consider that an accomplishment


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19227484 - 12/04/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'd agree with them, but my point still stands.  Prohibition of DDT was very effective at getting people to stop using DDT.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227487 - 12/04/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
When has prohibition ever worked for anything ever?



Wow...That'd be a long list.  Prohibition has proven to be highly effective at altering people's behavior.  Except in the context of drugs and alcohol, prohibition works pretty fucking well.

You don't see a lot of DDT being sprayed, do you?



DDT is banned from being used agriculturally. Its still used inside of homes to combat malaria.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19227504 - 12/04/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Please name household pesticides containing DDT in the U.S.  Thanks in advance.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227520 - 12/04/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/factsheets/chemicals/ddt-brief-history-status.htm
Quote:

In September 2006, the World Health Organization (WHO) declared its support for the indoor use of DDT in African countries where malaria remains a major health problem, citing that benefits of the pesticide outweigh the health and environmental risks. This is consistent with the Stockholm Convention on POPs, which bans DDT for all uses except for malaria control.

DDT is one of 12 pesticides recommended by the WHO for indoor residual spray programs. It is up to countries to decide whether or not to use DDT. EPA works with other agencies and countries to advise them on how DDT programs are developed and monitored, with the goal that DDT be used only within the context of Integrated Vector Management programs, and that it be kept out of agricultural sectors.




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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19227524 - 12/04/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Which has nothing to do with the US


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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19227527 - 12/04/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I'm not sure what your point is.  You said, "When has prohibition ever worked for anything ever?" and I gave you DDT as an example of prohibition working.

What relevance is it that in some African countries, it's legal?  The point remains valid that where it is illegal, prohibition is effective at changing people's behavior.


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InvisibleLittleDipster
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19227528 - 12/04/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

in the U.S.




Quote:

in African countries





there seems to be a difference here


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: LittleDipster]
    #19227541 - 12/04/13 04:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

my bad i didn't see the U.S part. When i made the original statement in regards to ddt i was referring to a global scale.


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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19227546 - 12/04/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So, you admit now that prohibition is generally effective?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227577 - 12/04/13 04:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It depends on what you mean by "worked"


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227584 - 12/04/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you admit now that prohibition is generally effective?



effective in what sense?


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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19227615 - 12/04/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

In that it succeeds in altering people's behavior as planned.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227627 - 12/04/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Every action by anyone alters people's behavior


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227632 - 12/04/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

what is the behavior? Using that particular substance/item? Or something more broad? People still use dangerous pesticides. The use of that particular chemical has gone down. But the behavior of using dangerous pesticides has not.


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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19227633 - 12/04/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What does that have to do with what I said?  Did you not read "as planned" or were you just ignoring it for the purpose of making some pseudo-intellectual argument?


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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: psyconaught]
    #19227643 - 12/04/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
what is the behavior? Using that particular substance/item? Or something more broad? People still use dangerous pesticides. The use of that particular chemical has gone down. But the behavior of using dangerous pesticides has not.



The ban on DDT was meant to stop people from using DDT.  It has accomplished that.  I don't see any rational argument that the ban didn't "work."


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227658 - 12/04/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
What does that have to do with what I said?  Did you not read "as planned" or were you just ignoring it for the purpose of making some pseudo-intellectual argument?



So the plan was to kill 100 million people?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: Enlil]
    #19227660 - 12/04/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
what is the behavior? Using that particular substance/item? Or something more broad? People still use dangerous pesticides. The use of that particular chemical has gone down. But the behavior of using dangerous pesticides has not.



The ban on DDT was meant to stop people from using DDT.  It has accomplished that.  I don't see any rational argument that the ban didn't "work."



Work to do what?


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Re: i hate to tell you i told you so... [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19227661 - 12/04/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Is that behavior, zappa?  More specifically, is that people's behavior?  I didn't think so.

The point is that prohibition almost always works insofar as it stops people from doing whatever behavior was prohibited.  One notable exception, of course, is drug prohibition.


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