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Offlinezoomfan
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euthanasia
    #19220361 - 12/03/13 02:52 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

There is a huge movement toward legalizing it here in canada I think it is a basic human right ...what is your opinion?


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Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: euthanasia [Re: zoomfan] * 1
    #19220371 - 12/03/13 02:57 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Yeah, why wouldn't it be, besides "God will send you to hell" or some other such BS?


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Offlinezoomfan
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Re: euthanasia [Re: NetDiver]
    #19220386 - 12/03/13 03:07 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

yeah i agree it just blows my mind that it is illegal to die when you want to it is the greatest human rights violation of our time


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Thinking is dreaming wake up and enjoy the dream.


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Offlineredfox7450
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Re: euthanasia [Re: zoomfan]
    #19220396 - 12/03/13 03:13 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

hmm, i disagree. i believe it's your time when it's your time. it's not really something that should be in your hands.. that's just my opinion though.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450] * 1
    #19220427 - 12/03/13 03:31 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Why shouldn't you get to decide when 'your time' is? It's your life, after all.

Also, you may say it's just "your opinion," but if you're ever in a position to vote on the matter, then it will have crossed the line from "harmless belief" into "denial of the rights of others."


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Offlineredfox7450
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Re: euthanasia [Re: NetDiver]
    #19220448 - 12/03/13 03:42 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

yeah, but you didn't get the decision to be born into this world, so why have the decision when you go? it just doesn't make sense to me. and if there were voting on it, i would vote against it. if you want to kill yourself then pick up a gun and do it, or whatever it is you have to do. don't put it into the hands of others.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450] * 1
    #19220460 - 12/03/13 03:47 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Not everyone can pick up a gun and do it themselves. The kinds of people who request euthanasia generally aren't able to do much at all, besides request barbituates from their doctors.

And if anything, the fact that you didn't make the decision to be born is an argument for the right to die when and how you want. You have no obligation to anyone or anything to live, you didn't choose to be here so why should you have to remain if you don't want to, if you're just going to be experiencing suffering?


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OfflineDirtyTomFlint
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Re: euthanasia [Re: NetDiver] * 1
    #19220471 - 12/03/13 03:53 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

People should be able to do what they want.


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Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450] * 1
    #19220482 - 12/03/13 04:00 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

redfox7450 said:
hmm, i disagree. i believe it's your time when it's your time. it's not really something that should be in your hands.. that's just my opinion though.




Why is it your opinion exactly?

  Someday you may find yourself in excruciating pain.  Why take pain pills then even, if pain is your fate it's your fate. Just let nature take it's course and interfere with nothing?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450] * 1
    #19220622 - 12/03/13 05:57 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

you didn't get the decision to be born into this world




This statement makes no sense. 'You' is an emergent property of a human being with some time on the planet. There was no 'you' before birth to decide for or against being here.

BTW, welcome to the forum.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: euthanasia [Re: DirtyTomFlint]
    #19220624 - 12/03/13 05:58 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

DatIslandLife said:
People should be able to do what they want.




You velly funny man. :japsmile:


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: euthanasia [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19220633 - 12/03/13 06:05 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Suicide is a human right... only a torturer would keep a man from dyeing...

When did Pelagius III get in charge?


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And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icyus]
    #19220638 - 12/03/13 06:08 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

only a torturer would keep a man from dyeing






True. Coloring t-shirts in multi-colored patterns is a God-given right!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: euthanasia [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19220746 - 12/03/13 07:47 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

this is not as complex as evolution or consciousness, but it is going to be tricky to keep the situation clear about the right to be killed and the right to kill, the right circumstances and the clear petition or consensus on the procedure being euthanasia as opposed to murder.

we all have to be sure that

the person who is euthanized is not substituted for another person. (authenticity of choice)

the person who is euthanized has actually asked to be euthanized and has not been maneuvered into seeming to have asked by parties with vested interests. (veracity of choice)

a person who cannot express himself and who is clearly in endless pain with no  recourse will require some other consideration, such as family or peer decisions unless prior to being overcome with illness the person had a living will. (clear legal status)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #19220748 - 12/03/13 07:49 AM (8 years, 1 day ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

you didn't get the decision to be born into this world




This statement makes no sense. 'You' is an emergent property of a human being with some time on the planet. There was no 'you' before birth to decide for or against being here.

BTW, welcome to the forum.





Unlike you I take the meaning of what he's attempting to say and I agree with him.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLibertin
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19220865 - 12/03/13 09:02 AM (8 years, 23 hours ago)

I see the shift towards the legalisation of euthanasia as inevitable. There's not one single strong argument against euthanasia, if you disagree.. no.. just don't even try. :pipesmoke:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Libertin]
    #19221731 - 12/03/13 01:45 PM (8 years, 19 hours ago)

euthanasia is simply the idea that points evil life being the present fact

as if truth, so freedom, is saying, kill me, and the power abuse, is answering something else .. kill me, and the same answer something else to not say blankly, no

what you don't get is how truth is not a thing, truth is truth so it wont care about absolutes it can creates it as shit ... absolutes are for right considerations of being to else existence that must be free ... but no one particularly this is absurd ... or not in some way that you can know to jump on as knowing anything

power is based on never killing, because power is from else misery, so the more else is surviving the more power it gives to any possession ability to its objective being..it must get things, power is through doing things that exist already ...

euthanasia is just showing the absurdity of means
like somebody is dying dying cannot breed at all nor move his situation is terminal the disease is alive instead everyday more .. people love him around him ... and still saying no no... and the guy is saying plz plz I cant take that anymore ... no what about god ... I love you ....

so you see, this is all for that point


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Libertin]
    #19221776 - 12/03/13 01:55 PM (8 years, 18 hours ago)

euthanasia is simply the idea that points evil life being the present fact

as if truth, so freedom, is saying, kill me, and the power abuse, is answering something else .. kill me, and the same answer something else to not say blankly, no

what you don't get is how truth is not a thing, truth is truth so it wont care about absolutes it can creates it as shit ... absolutes are for right considerations of being to else existence that must be free ... but no one particularly this is absurd ... or not in some way that you can know to jump on as knowing anything

power is based on never killing, because power is from else misery, so the more else is surviving the more power it gives to any possession ability to its objective being..it must get things, power is through doing things that exist already ...

euthanasia is just showing the absurdity of means
like somebody is dying dying cannot breed at all nor move his situation is terminal the disease is alive instead everyday more .. people love him around him ... and still saying no no... and the guy is saying plz plz I cant take that anymore ... no what about the big plan.. I love you ....

so you see, this is all for that point


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InvisibleLibertin
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Re: euthanasia [Re: absols]
    #19221928 - 12/03/13 02:29 PM (8 years, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

absols said:
euthanasia is simply the idea that points evil life being the present fact

as if truth, so freedom, is saying, kill me, and the power abuse, is answering something else .. kill me, and the same answer something else to not say blankly, no

what you don't get is how truth is not a thing, truth is truth so it wont care about absolutes it can creates it as shit ... absolutes are for right considerations of being to else existence that must be free ... but no one particularly this is absurd ... or not in some way that you can know to jump on as knowing anything

power is based on never killing, because power is from else misery, so the more else is surviving the more power it gives to any possession ability to its objective being..it must get things, power is through doing things that exist already ...

euthanasia is just showing the absurdity of means
like somebody is dying dying cannot breed at all nor move his situation is terminal the disease is alive instead everyday more .. people love him around him ... and still saying no no... and the guy is saying plz plz I cant take that anymore ... no what about the big plan.. I love you ....

so you see, this is all for that point




absols, for the simple people like me who have difficulty understanding your posts, are you for or against the legalisation of euthanasia?  :grin:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Libertin]
    #19222073 - 12/03/13 02:54 PM (8 years, 17 hours ago)

Practically I'm all for being able to legally kill myself (or get others to kill me when I'm no longer capable of doing it) when I see nothing but suffering for the rest of my days.

Just to play Devil's advocate, though--what if killing myself would generate more suffering in my friends, family and loved ones compared to my own suffering if I chose life instead?  I suppose this assumes a utilitarian perspective on morality, but assuming for the moment that one's suffering ISN'T the only thing that matters, what's the right thing to do in this situation?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: deCypher]
    #19222188 - 12/03/13 03:13 PM (8 years, 17 hours ago)

The right thing to do is what you decide to do.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19222238 - 12/03/13 03:24 PM (8 years, 17 hours ago)

That doesn't help one come to a conclusion.

Suppose you're a utilitarian; then the right thing to do would be to do whatever generates the most amount of happiness.  Therefore I should not kill myself in the scenario I outlined.

Supposed I'm an egoist (as you are too, I assume, Icey).  Then the right thing to do would be to do whatever makes ME the happiest.  But knowing that I would be damning my friends, family and loved ones to more suffering than I would experience if I just manned up and stayed alive would produce so much guilt that I just wouldn't be happy doing the deed.  See the problem?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: deCypher]
    #19222248 - 12/03/13 03:27 PM (8 years, 17 hours ago)

I don't see it that way.  If you decide to live for others you do it because it pleases you or satisfies you the most.  So the right thing is what you decide brings you the most satisfaction.  Which is what I said.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: deCypher]
    #19222356 - 12/03/13 03:54 PM (8 years, 16 hours ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
That doesn't help one come to a conclusion.

Suppose you're a utilitarian; then the right thing to do would be to do whatever generates the most amount of happiness.  Therefore I should not kill myself in the scenario I outlined.

Supposed I'm an egoist (as you are too, I assume, Icey).  Then the right thing to do would be to do whatever makes ME the happiest.  But knowing that I would be damning my friends, family and loved ones to more suffering than I would experience if I just manned up and stayed alive would produce so much guilt that I just wouldn't be happy doing the deed.  See the problem?




I agree with you here, truth is not what it works ... this is a lie too for powers life over opportunists of things forced as their sources

truth is what is right objectively ... so else right that hurt you somehow to admit it .. this is where freedom reside, when it is not you while meaning something else .. so you would invent you out of all different right and stay free


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OfflineAllisterem
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450]
    #19230813 - 12/05/13 01:32 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redfox7450 said:
hmm, i disagree. i believe it's your time when it's your time. it's not really something that should be in your hands.. that's just my opinion though.




For the most part death is out of your hands.  However, what if one is in a confused state of paranoia?  Caught in a cycle determined by mental illness, they obviously can't decide for themselves.

What of those that can?  What if you are dying of excruciating bone cancer that has your bones exploding with tumors or some other such slow painful death?  Should they not be given the choice of sticking it out for however many years or ending it quietly and quickly of their own accord?

Do you have the right to decide what they do with their soul?  What about a population?  Would you let a majority of people you disagree with choose for you?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Allisterem]
    #19230937 - 12/05/13 02:08 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineredfox7450
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19231020 - 12/05/13 02:28 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

i don't really feel it's necessary to continue this debate, so i'm just gonna agree and leave it at that.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450]
    #19231026 - 12/05/13 02:31 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:excellent:  excellent


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineredfox7450
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19231107 - 12/05/13 02:54 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

hahah


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InvisibleChasingBliss
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450]
    #19231520 - 12/05/13 04:34 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Personally, I think we all have the right to die. The same way we have the right to live. It's obviously trickier when it comes to people who are not able to decide their own fate, like coma patients for example. But if someone with terminal cancer wants to die before they endure the rest of their days in hurendous pain, who are we to force them to live through that?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: euthanasia [Re: ChasingBliss]
    #19231533 - 12/05/13 04:36 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

My helium tank agrees. :laugh:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19231683 - 12/05/13 05:10 PM (7 years, 11 months ago)

yes who are you to talk about suffer as if it cant be happening on you !

those kind of pervert abuse of evil life meant to enforce an appearance of conscious rights as a disgusting animal begging to die, would surely one day be forced to pay for ever, it wont stop..

till then, talk about yourselves .. stop pointing fingers on others for negative things relative to your condition of being too.. say the negative you mean about you, when no one could lie to himself and no self would mean being someone else either ...

anyway, euthanasia is about being supported to die, not about killing own self or suicide ... it shows how far you mean to enforce your god glory over human beings ends

the result matter as an objective value, but only if it is positive
something negative don't justify another thing being positive

but conscious beings is never of any result, it is its fact individuality

so a normal being state is not according to what he is getting nor his end

beings dying are not the pain nor the preparation to death

it is still a conscious being like any other subject, even more then any healthy being


Edited by absols (12/05/13 05:14 PM)


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Re: euthanasia [Re: absols]
    #19234532 - 12/06/13 01:32 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Hmm...

What do you all think determines whether a person will be for or against euthanasia?

I believe it would be best if euthanasia were available to just about anybody, but that a waiting period and perhaps some kind of counseling requirement (not approval, but simply a requirement to obtain end of life counseling from a psychologist or religious leader of one's choosing) would be necessary to prevent wrongful death caused by volatile emotions.

I believe this because I believe it would be the most helpful thing for the most people.  It would allow very ill people to end their lives peacefully, and would allow very unhappy yet healthy people to do the same, but not without some contemplation.


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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
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Re: euthanasia [Re: redfox7450]
    #19234675 - 12/06/13 02:27 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

redfox7450 said:
yeah, but you didn't get the decision to be born into this world, so why have the decision when you go? it just doesn't make sense to me. and if there were voting on it, i would vote against it. if you want to kill yourself then pick up a gun and do it, or whatever it is you have to do. don't put it into the hands of others.




No, it's already in other's hands because they are denying people the drugs that sanely and painlessly end their lives.  It's bullshit that one's only viable option out would be morbid and degrading.


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Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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Re: euthanasia [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #19234699 - 12/06/13 02:36 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: euthanasia [Re: Icelander]
    #19234710 - 12/06/13 02:40 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

This goes back to peoples opinions outweighing peoples rights, which shouldn't happen.


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: hmmn]
    #19234731 - 12/06/13 02:48 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

didn't you read what I said ?? talk about yourself there don't dare mention anybody else !

euthanasia, is the will to be supported to die, not for ending suffer but for ending existing... it is the freedom right to not exist, when existence is all about oneself realizations ... it concerns only selves conscious then when they are not rejecting existence as a whole and mean just themselves death forever ...

anyone is alone, it is THE fact, objectively and subjectively, then it is about being supported positively, because in truth it is impossible to end its own self ..
so it is about existence truth justifications, we exist because everything exist and everyone else .. so we can help each others and communicate right according to objective positive ends terms

what you mean to give power to yourself over an individual existence, is all to the evil you are in being only through the perspective of negative force on anybody else ..

existing is in truth, that is how it is a conscious state not depending on pleasures and what ones are doing, that is how people in pains and negative bodies health are very much existing the same still

but the fact is what existence in truth cant be but positive superiority so constant more better ends .. when it is obviously the opposite fact, than absolute evil life rules and ways, must be the fact, the evil you are !:crazy2:
how truth knowledge are one god business in ensuring being the only positive existence by destroying ruining killing violating ... all else rights !!...

the more the being is in bad shape, the more he is free from everything truth ... then what is left is only him... so his freedom right there to decide to not exist anymore is full

people could hesitate when they have good reasons to stay, this is where speculations about forever play a big role to justify wrong insistent ways to take selves existence too seriously ...

but any is only him, so if he is negatively being, then his will or any expression of him prevail.. it is what define his individuality and not his physical condition, when negative condition mean being not in truth ...

even if he sounds reacting, it is not your business ... some people could be living the best life possible but still they don't want to exist ... it is their own selves rights wills
again, when any is only possibly objective from all the efforts that any will do in realizing himself objectively ... you cannot force that to please the dirty god powers out of absolute force


Edited by absols (12/06/13 02:54 AM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: euthanasia [Re: absols]
    #19234756 - 12/06/13 02:56 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

absols, can I ask you something off-topic?

:lol:


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Offlineabsols
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Re: euthanasia [Re: teknix]
    #19234798 - 12/06/13 03:16 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:hi: NO :crazy2:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: euthanasia [Re: absols]
    #19234809 - 12/06/13 03:20 AM (7 years, 11 months ago)

:aliendance:


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