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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid 1
#19220300 - 12/03/13 12:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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In my opinion. Whenever I see the word I cringe.
What the hell does it even mean to "pursue enlightenment?"
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez]
#19220336 - 12/03/13 12:42 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Agreed. Same with following your dreams. If you make your dreams a reality, then will reality be your dreams?
People who say "I am one with the universe". If they believed that they'd say "The universe is universe with the universe".
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DirtyTomFlint
( ಥـْـِـِـِـْಥ)




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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: moonrockmushy]
#19220348 - 12/03/13 12:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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To pursue enlightenment is to pursue knowledge and to learn. Yes, the world is a terrible place, but it can also be a wonderful place. It doesn't get in the way of being enlightened.
--------------------
   Know Your Body, Know Your Mind, Know Your Substance, Know Your Source
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GreySatyr
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: DirtyTomFlint]
#19220414 - 12/03/13 01:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The philosophical pursuit of knowledge, understanding, wisdom, awareness, sophistication and the motivation to apply that through life to advance or develope or improve culture and/or society.
A lot of self proclaimed enlightened guys are selfish as fuck. Like bhuddists, I fucking hate them guys. Their "enlightenment" is totally self centered. I personally believe that they just live an alternate lifestyle and pretend to transcend some mortal existence when they really aren't doing shit but being really healthy, yeah their are major benefits to their lifestyle but its selfish.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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GreySatyr
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: GreySatyr]
#19220428 - 12/03/13 01:31 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Oh I forgot to mention that this enlightenment thing is a never ending process and when one believes they are enlightened well then they're full of shit. You can become enlightened on a subject matter or you are becoming enlightened but you are never enlightened or you would reach a stage call apotheosis which means to become god or become godlike and obviously that shit will never happen. Jerry Garcia was being enlightened in the ways of guitar but without that, he was just another human being like me or you, maybe you're human. Anyways...
Point being, Jerry Garcia was not selfish and he was enlightening in his guitar playing which allowed him to revolutionize music as we know it. You'll see his influence everywhere. Now if we could find a philosophically enlightened politican, Jk, good joke was it not?
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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Thecrimson
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: GreySatyr]
#19220607 - 12/03/13 03:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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IMO enlightenment is experiencing pure consciousness. Something only able to be felt through deep meditation or drugs(mushrooms).
I personally experienced enlightenment during a couple trips. It is when you gain knowledge because it becomes apparent. It is when you see something with absolutely zero preconceived notions about it, allowing you to see it how it really is. The enlightenment experience I had only lasted for a split second and I only felt it a couple times. And enlightenment isn't something you can keep, because the moment our thoughts and general ego return to us it is impossible to think in the enlightened way. It is something you can experience, and take what you can from it.
The reason people have a hard time picturing it is because it is literally indescribable. Beyond even trying to describe an emotion or feeling. Words literally will NOT work when trying to explain it.
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson] 1
#19220620 - 12/03/13 03:53 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree, but more so for a different reason than yours....
the pursuit of enlightenment is redicolous... one must only realize what they are standing on.. The pursuit of enlightenments is likepulling a rope without an end.. one will never get to it.. one just needs to realize they already got the rope...
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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cbub
it


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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez]
#19220689 - 12/03/13 04:51 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why so confused? Fact 1 is - Ego does not get enlightened. Quite the opposite, the lack of ego gives room to reality that's always present. Fact 2 is - There is no existence as we know it without ego.
1 + 2 = nobody gets enlightened and nobody is enlightened. So forget about enlightenment.
If 'pursuit of enlightenment' makes you cringe, you are generating negative feelings onto yourself for no logical or practical reason. I wish you grow more comfortable with yourself. Love!
-------------------- It's fine.
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
Posts: 5,854
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cbub]
#19220711 - 12/03/13 05:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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 Thank you for your wisdom cbub.
Edited by cez (12/03/13 05:24 AM)
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cbub
it


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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez]
#19220732 - 12/03/13 05:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I didn't  Always thought spiritualists and religious people were having trouble coping with world as it is. I just wanted a house and a job, maybe a car, a dog, a wife and a kid... but now look at the mess I'm in
-------------------- It's fine.
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dpomalia
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cbub]
#19220750 - 12/03/13 05:49 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Check out maslows hierarchy of needs Fulfil those maybe enlightenment will seem different to you And without ego there is Id and super ego Were not born with ego were born with an id and the world makes us develope a super ego then we find a socially okay middle ground known as ego
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Icelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cbub] 1
#19220764 - 12/03/13 05:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cbub said: I didn't  Always thought spiritualists and religious people were having trouble coping with world as it is. I just wanted a house and a job, maybe a car, a dog, a wife and a kid... but now look at the mess I'm in 
Once you're in you can't get out.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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cbub
it


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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: dpomalia]
#19220791 - 12/03/13 06:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Thank god for Freud, or we wouldn't have all this semantics confusion. Imagine it would have been easier to converse 
Good idea. Maslow challenge accepted. If pursuit of enlightenment is nonsencical, then maybe the pursuit of pursuit of enlightenment will make more sense!
-------------------- It's fine.
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cbub
it


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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
#19220807 - 12/03/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Once you're in you can't get out.
But you know what, It's better that way. Reminds me of that awesome quote from waking life. ...and this is like my little window to the world... and every minute's a different show. I may not understand it. I may not even necessarily agree with it. But I'll tell you what I've accepted: just sort of glide along. You want to keep things on an even key, this is what I'm saying. You want to go with the flow. The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving...
-------------------- It's fine.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cbub]
#19220935 - 12/03/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cbub said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
Once you're in you can't get out.
But you know what, It's better that way. Reminds me of that awesome quote from waking life. ...and this is like my little window to the world... and every minute's a different show. I may not understand it. I may not even necessarily agree with it. But I'll tell you what I've accepted: just sort of glide along. You want to keep things on an even key, this is what I'm saying. You want to go with the flow. The sea refuses no river. The idea is to remain in a state of constant departure while always arriving...
Mo better blues
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dpomalia
Strange


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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cbub]
#19220943 - 12/03/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pursuit to pursuit Its the journey not the destination Freud is a strange one Maslow is obviously too humanistic The mind is a tricky place
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all this beauty
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
#19221010 - 12/03/13 08:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Thecrimson said: The reason people have a hard time picturing it is because it is literally indescribable. Beyond even trying to describe an emotion or feeling. Words literally will NOT work when trying to explain it.
Yes. A hallmark of the experience is its ineffability -- the inability to speak it. This is very well documented in the classic literature on the subject. LSD users, poets, and saints frequently point to the ineffability of the experience.
And there arises the essential dilemma -- attempting to speak the unspeakable.
I think the experience is ineffable because it arises in a place that is "before" our brains and "before" our cognition. Before the biological machinery that processes information and translates it into language.
Just a guess. How could any of us "know."
But it's very mysterious.
Lol... that's why they call it "mysticism"!
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djmasturbeat
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: all this beauty]
#19221479 - 12/03/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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spiritual/mystical paradoxes, for me, express this ineffability the best. but they don't express this ineffability whatsoever.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez] 3
#19221513 - 12/03/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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the pursuit of anything else is as equally stupid
--------------------
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NastyDHL



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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez]
#19221551 - 12/03/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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in Hinduism and and Buddhism as well a ancient Chinese medicine there is an energetic body that is spoken of.
My impression is that enlightenment is the full awareness of this energetic or light body, where the mind's eye is focused in such a way that it is no longer ignorant of the use of ones energy in ways that are extraneous to the "present moment".
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Chronic7]
#19221576 - 12/03/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said: the pursuit of anything else is as equally stupid
Oh I agree but we can't help it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: NastyDHL]
#19221737 - 12/03/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
NastyDHL said: in Hinduism and and Buddhism as well a ancient Chinese medicine there is an energetic body that is spoken of.
My impression is that enlightenment is the full awareness of this energetic or light body, where the mind's eye is focused in such a way that it is no longer ignorant of the use of ones energy in ways that are extraneous to the "present moment".
100% agree.
The ego thing is only a small step.
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absols
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez]
#19221942 - 12/03/13 12:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
cez said: In my opinion. Whenever I see the word I cringe.
What the hell does it even mean to "pursue enlightenment?"
let me tell you what it means ..
it means like an object is your source .. that is why you and I will be pissed and willing to piss on that, joking of course 
me what really hit my nerves.. is to see how things are pointed being living, and living sources ... what are we doing there?? especially when we are meaning ourselves needs and wills ???
they keep willing to exploit values as objects sources that must be the reason of individuals beings so they can be in power over all... if you do this you are a lion heart.. so you would get that piece of cake to eat as a living being ..
like what also they describe what is to have wisdom .. like something in your pocket for life
all is about our slavery in such insolent insolent ever terms ... right on our faces .. and they jump all over especially in the body to force it to slavery insolently .. in front of every others bodies .. as if your body was never for you, and all forces comes at you suddenly to make it look like your body is an object being your source ...as an ultra sensitive reactor ... from what they want to make you a source of others reactions .. like all beings kind.. they invent light as an object source by meaning the darkness of our faces from their asses wills..
can you see how incredibly evil all is ??
Edited by absols (12/03/13 12:47 PM)
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Thecrimson
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: absols] 1
#19221974 - 12/03/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
absols said:
Quote:
cez said: In my opinion. Whenever I see the word I cringe.
What the hell does it even mean to "pursue enlightenment?"
let me tell you what it means ..
it means like an object is your source .. that is why you and I will be pissed and willing to piss on that, joking of course 
me what really hit my nerves.. is to see how things are pointed being living, and living sources ... what are we doing there?? especially when we are meaning ourselves needs and wills ???
they keep describing at is courage package ... if you do this you are a lion .. so you would get that piece of cake to eat for living being ..
and most of it they describe what is to have wisdom .. like something in your pocket for living
all is about our slavery in such insolent insolent ever terms ... right on our faces .. and they jump all over especially in the body to force it to slavery insolently .. in front of every others bodies .. as if a body is not for you and they force it to look like your body is your source ...
can you see how incredibly evil all is ??
Dafuq are you talking about? English. Sentences.
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happygolucky
exstatik
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
#19222044 - 12/03/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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In much wisdom is much grief. And he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
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absols
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: happygolucky]
#19222124 - 12/03/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
happygolucky said: In much wisdom is much grief. And he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
knowledge is never about knowing things life .. this is another lie
that is how knowledge is about oneself truth.. which cant ever in anyway be a thing
knowledge in powers to reach getting so in evil means, is about the truth
so objective all beyond the universe and its components.. truth existence to rule anything of down .. and the kind of knowledge being evil as knowing the answer of that from them saying, know yourself ...
truth cant be reached from up ..that is nonsense
that is why they invent objects as living sources ... to keep meaning the same evil will .. so they invent it all
there is no such a thing called wisdom .. there is no wisdom at all
that is how it cant but lead to worse
what is right is always more infinitely more right ...
like balance for you is a great value as an object source of positive being .. it is an invented lie.. there is no such thing as balance either
in truth, it is always a plus that is why free of all what is there while being all its existence means .. that is how it must be starting from the end if it was true ..
balance is a notion invented by opportunists .. that mean to take from here and there .. everywhere.. how long do you think you can fake being standing anywhere ??
Edited by absols (12/03/13 01:03 PM)
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: absols] 1
#19222194 - 12/03/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
all this beauty said: And there arises the essential dilemma -- attempting to speak the unspeakable.
I'm still waiting for a guru to write "Effing the Ineffable, or how I found Pure Truth, Wisdom and Enlightenment, then threw it all away for a cold beer, pizza and a blowjob."
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Thecrimson
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: absols] 2
#19222198 - 12/03/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
absols said:
Quote:
happygolucky said: In much wisdom is much grief. And he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
knowledge is never about knowing things life .. this is another lie
that is how knowledge is about oneself truth.. which cant ever in anyway be a thing
knowledge in powers to reach getting so in evil means, is about the truth
so objective all beyond the universe and its components.. truth existence to rule anything of down .. and the kind of knowledge being evil as knowing the answer of that from them saying, know yourself ...
truth cant be reached from up ..that is nonsense
that is why they invent objects as living sources ... to keep meaning the same evil will .. so they invent it all
there is no such a thing called wisdom .. there is no wisdom at all
that is how it cant but lead to worse
what is right is always more infinitely more right ...
like balance for you is a great value as an object source of positive being .. it is an invented lie.. there is no such thing as balance either
in truth, it is always a plus that is why free of all what is there while being all its existence means .. that is how it must be starting from the end if it was true ..
balance is a notion invented by opportunists .. that mean to take from here and there .. everywhere.. how long do you think you can fake being standing anywhere ??
I'm sure you have some sort of point but I can't take anyone seriously that needs to talk like that. Same with 'increaseth'
Poetry section is ===> that way
Edited by Thecrimson (12/03/13 01:21 PM)
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absols
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
#19222276 - 12/03/13 01:34 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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again you cant but doing it.. poetry is not the source of living words
forms of sentences are not sources of individuals means
you are the ridiculous you mean that cant ever be existing really to reply to, joking
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: absols]
#19222626 - 12/03/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Pursuit of enlightenment isn't stupid. It seems stupid from a goal oriented and materialistic POV. In fact it's really probably the only smart thing to do in life. If people used up less resources due to meditation that would also be a plus for the ecology of the planet.
What is stupid is having so little fix on what enlightenment is that one searches out others on the interweb to compare their mind to. Even worse are those dharma websites like Lioncity and shit where you have tremendous pundits berating others in the name of truth. That is fallacious. I was totally turned off to Buddhism from a bunch of self righteous assholes at Esangha and other dharma sites. In the name of dharma people act all nazi-like and cornhole other practitioners as if they are helping.
You Esangha moderators are shitting on The Dharma. Your egos are raping newcomers to the Path. I don't care how brilliant you are, your brilliance is not in service to anyone but your own ego. This is where ego and the Path do not mix.
Smug fuckers endlessly elaborating infinitely recursive and self delineating religion is not enlightenment. You have two broad swatchs of Buddhists - the traditionalists who have a moment of satori and then they know everything (there are alot of them), and those who counter with the koan like meaningless head in a hole thought to end thought type dipshits.
It's a wonder I like Buddhism at all given how much claptrap you get mixed into little value.
Okay this was my rant for today
Up up and ben gay!
-------------------- ...or something
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: deCypher] 2
#19222639 - 12/03/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
all this beauty said: And there arises the essential dilemma -- attempting to speak the unspeakable.
I'm still waiting for a guru to write "Effing the Ineffable, or how I found Pure Truth, Wisdom and Enlightenment, then threw it all away for a cold beer, pizza and a blowjob."
good idea. why don't you do it?
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: White Beard] 1
#19222774 - 12/03/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm not really a guru, but if I ever do eff the ineffable in novel format I'll be sure to include the Shroomery in my dedication.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: deCypher] 1
#19222964 - 12/03/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: I'm not really a guru
who says you have to be a guru in order to write a book pretending like you're a guru?
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cez

Registered: 08/04/09
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: White Beard]
#19223087 - 12/03/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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These are all great responses I think  I guess it's the rhetoric that makes me cringe.
I just don't like the word "enlightenment" and well, when that word is pursued......
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez]
#19223237 - 12/03/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You might start out pursuing it, but along the way you aren't pursuing it.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: dpomalia]
#19223673 - 12/03/13 07:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is true that relatively few folk pursue Self-Actualization, or are "Being-Cognizers," but whether Self-Actualization in the Maslowian sense is the same as Self-Realization in say, a Ramana Maharsh sense, is questionable. It may well be that Self-Actualization is a more practically realizable goal. Glad you mentioned Maslow. I noted earlier this week that few people at these forums really know his major works and how important they were in the psychedelic 60s. Why, it was Maslow who coined "peak experience" (and "plateau") and hence 'peaking.'
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#19223680 - 12/03/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: It is true that relatively few folk pursue Self-Actualization, or are "Being-Cognizers," but whether Self-Actualization in the Maslowian sense is the same as Self-Realization in say, a Ramana Maharsh sense, is questionable. It may well be that Self-Actualization is a more practically realizable goal. Glad you mentioned Maslow. I noted earlier this week that few people at these forums really know his major works and how important they were in the psychedelic 60s. Why, it was Maslow who coined "peak experience" (and "plateau") and hence 'peaking.'
What are your thoughts on equating Enlightenment with Bliss?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Chuckfinely
another round for me an my buddy

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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: deCypher]
#19223987 - 12/03/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The idea of enlightenment gets me too
I mean if enlightenment is the elimination of ego, which would also mean the elimination of want/desire, then the pursuit of enlightenment, or want of it, prevents you from being enlightened
So you cant be enlightened unless you don't desire to be It seems a little difficult to me, but I suppose the only way to really be happy is to just not want anything. It just that wanting to not want anything means that you still want something, so its kind of a
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teknix
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Chuckfinely]
#19224317 - 12/03/13 09:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Self can't be enlightened, that's the whole thing.
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moonrockmushy
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: teknix]
#19224429 - 12/03/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The cock crows in the early morning; Sadly I see as I rise how worn out I am; I haven't a belt or a shirt. Just the semblance of a robe. My loincloth has no seat, my pants no opening-- On my head are three or five pecks of gray ashes. Originally I intended to practice to help save others; Who would have suspected that instead I would become a fool!
-Joshu
Posted this in another thread but this is where it belongs. I like Joshu. Think he is one of the only Zen masters who sees enlightenment for what it is. An endlessly twisted joke. People who take things seriously are too heavy to be enlightened.
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teknix
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: moonrockmushy]
#19224745 - 12/03/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sound a lot like a wu wei story.
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r72rock
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cez]
#19228897 - 12/04/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I tend to agree. Judging from your signature, I see you know of Shunryu Suzuki. He tended to steer people away from this idea of "enlightenment" and focused on just practicing.
Quote:
There are, strictly speaking, no enlightened people, there is only enlightened activity. - Shunryu Suzuki
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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cez

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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: r72rock]
#19229053 - 12/04/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Vaipen
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: moonrockmushy]
#19230517 - 12/05/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said: Agreed. Same with following your dreams. If you make your dreams a reality, then will reality be your dreams?
People who say "I am one with the universe". If they believed that they'd say "The universe is universe with the universe".
I do not think you can 'pursue' these things. For some it comes sooner, some get it later, some never but it is a process. It comes under a false name, it arises out of experiencing life. It grows out of gaining years and experience and the changing of perspectives.
And then when it happens, you never realized you were there and you still have doubts about anything you feel or dream or study. And the enlightenment is that elusive moment when you realize that whatever you think enlightenment was, is just an enhanced perception or understanding and that this by itself has little meaning. It is that moment when you realize that you are no different from anybody else and that you seek answers, still, after all that time. And though you know you have reached some point of a heightened sense of how the world works and you with it, it is transitory.
I don't believe in pursuing anything. Pursuit of enlightenment is a hunt for something that cannot be captured. It is something that comes to you and that you then accept, nervously as you realize it will always be there, you let it slip from the mind.
Reality is a dream, I am the universe, these things have no profound meaning without understanding of their deepest resonances within yourself.
In so that when you look upon a flower you can connect, in that moment, the existence of that flower to the birth of the universe, that when you look at a bird's flight, you see the reflection of your own thoughts along its vector.
There comes this eldritch flow of wonder now and then when the interrelationship between you and nature becomes transparent and a vista of possibilities opens up in your mind. And...you laugh. There is joy. You find it incredibly funny. And that it has no sense to it, or meaning and yet, there is something there that streaks over the sky of your mind and it captures you ever so long as you can hold on to the feeling.
So, how to come to these things then. If you understand it, you can say that it finds you as you find it. If it is yet out of reach, this confusing double talk makes no sense. But the journey to it is fantastic.
That is how I come to it and how I lose it at the same time.
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Sse
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: cbub]
#19231500 - 12/05/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Forget about 'Enlightenment' - Satsang with Mooji
"if you give up all your notions, all your effort, to try to get somewhere, just drop it, right here and now, because you have the power to do it, just drop it"
"although you have to do something to see that, actually you have to do nothing to be that"
"when the mind is in complete rest, meaning that it is not carrying any intention, any notion, that there is something to be attained in order to be something; it's spontaneously is one with self, it is self itself."
"drop the notion that something stops you from being this. That's only a notion arising in this... what is this, and who is there outside of this to know it?"
"in this that we are, it does not even say, I am this"
"because we engage with some construction about what this must be. And then looking at your mind and your conditioning you feel unworthy, you identify with that, which gives a sense that you are less then, because as long as there is a search, there is a sense that something is missing; therefore this is why their searching"
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
Edited by Sse (12/05/13 02:52 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Sse]
#19231526 - 12/05/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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give up all your notion, all your effort, to try to get somewhere,
But how will I get my groceries? Are you going to deliver them?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sse
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
#19231531 - 12/05/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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context my friend :p
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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Icelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Sse]
#19231561 - 12/05/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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oh
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Sse
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
#19231573 - 12/05/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I edited the title in next to the first sentence so now it should make a little moe sense  hopefully there isn't someone out there trying to drop all effort, they'd be trapped in their thought patterns endlessly.. well I guess they would die pretty soon after adopting that philosophy hehe
In order to swim one takes off all one's clothes-in order to aspire to the truth one must undress in a far more inward sense, divest oneself of all one's inward clothes, of thoughts, conceptions, selfishness, etc., before one is sufficiently naked.
-Soren Kierkegaard
Edited by Sse (12/05/13 03:10 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
#19233880 - 12/05/13 08:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: give up all your notion, all your effort, to try to get somewhere,
But how will I get my groceries? Are you going to deliver them?
Senior Meals on Wheels
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akira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#19233974 - 12/05/13 09:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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this idea of enlightenment through acknowledging there is no enlightenment, is sorta like what i was gonna post... prayer as contemplation rather then "innate messages to God, straight across the vast universe into his mailbox".
people "pray" to contemplate the inevitable or the reality of a situation they feel they cannot face.
it's not like most people are striving to really get a message to God, and to get God to help them... it's more of a tangible thing then that... it's just someone centering themselves enough so they can deal with something that is troubling or difficult for them.
same with enlightenment. everyone can be enlightened about many things, although they never become truly enlightened about the universe or whatever... it's all just open lights on sources of information that one is devoid off before it's contemplation and revelation to them.
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Icelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
#19234371 - 12/05/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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nice post
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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akira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
#19234435 - 12/05/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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thank ye, Icelandether of the North Winds.
this thread was right in tune with what i was going to post something of; in the way that we pray for solace.
i think all these "elements" of religion and ritual come from a place similar to this... like lightning cracking in the face of sudden and insurmountable death; it chokes the human into an ever fervent display of witless abandon.
we find ourselves at the cornerstone of faith and wanting to be one with the great powers that be; cause they appear to be what causes us pain; and to please them we devote ourselves under service to these powers.
now it's the threat of being beheaded or burned at the stake or in common society being shelved away with the rest of the seekless nothingness; so you have to appear to "strive" to "want more" so one doesn't get proclaimed useless and surrendered to the "gods".
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Icelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
#19234767 - 12/06/13 01:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm pretty sure that all plays into this even if there is even more going on.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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akira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
#19234788 - 12/06/13 01:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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well, it's all a big grotesque picture or a subtly inducing siren call of death. depends on how you catch that gleam in your eye. you see the beauty in it or not; regardless, it's there encasing your every move.
i'd think of all the platitudes and fables of religion, one think stands out... you're going to die.
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Icelander
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
#19234897 - 12/06/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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And the hardest thing to grokk, especially when you are in your prime.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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akira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Icelander]
#19234937 - 12/06/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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kinda takes the meaning out of it all, don't it. "congrats, you accomplished something! it'll live on forever (in memorium) until your generation has past! then you'll be long forgotten in the sands of time! work for humanity we need your body for future generations!"
might as well just burn bodies for fuel; can... can we do that?
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Middleman

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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Sse]
#19235233 - 12/06/13 05:22 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Live satsang with Mooji this Sunday @ 7AM PST.
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Thecrimson
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
#19235279 - 12/06/13 06:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: this idea of enlightenment through acknowledging there is no enlightenment, is sorta like what i was gonna post... prayer as contemplation rather then "innate messages to God, straight across the vast universe into his mailbox".
people "pray" to contemplate the inevitable or the reality of a situation they feel they cannot face.
it's not like most people are striving to really get a message to God, and to get God to help them... it's more of a tangible thing then that... it's just someone centering themselves enough so they can deal with something that is troubling or difficult for them.
same with enlightenment. everyone can be enlightened about many things, although they never become truly enlightened about the universe or whatever... it's all just open lights on sources of information that one is devoid off before it's contemplation and revelation to them.
Eh, don't entirely agree. People may pray to focus on a goal and settle themselves like you say. But when they pray they still have notions and ideas, they are still focusing on a certain thought. Enlightenment is the lack of all of those. Enlightenment is clarity through lack of preconceived notions.
Edited by Thecrimson (12/06/13 06:05 AM)
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akira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
#19235341 - 12/06/13 06:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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nah... not everyone does that. in it's purest form, prayer is devoid of thoughts, and is only on "the lord" (or however you call, which denomination one my be in)
and to be only "thinking of the lord", you'd have to be thinking pure thoughts... not selfish ones.
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Thecrimson
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
#19235464 - 12/06/13 08:05 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: nah... not everyone does that. in it's purest form, prayer is devoid of thoughts, and is only on "the lord" (or however you call, which denomination one my be in)
and to be only "thinking of the lord", you'd have to be thinking pure thoughts... not selfish ones.
But if you are thinking ANY thoughts, even focused on your 'lord', it's not 'enlightenment'. Prayer suggests a purpose, enlightenment is just 'being'.
Not claiming to be definitely right, but enlightenment/pure awareness isn't something you can just will up. It's gonna happen either through practiced deep meditation or..drugs..
Edited by Thecrimson (12/06/13 08:56 AM)
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Allisterem
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
#19235889 - 12/06/13 10:45 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think in todays fast food fast information age, no one has the time or the patience to be able to understand what is required to even understand "enlightenment".
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Chuckfinely
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Middleman]
#19235945 - 12/06/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Rev. Morton said: Live satsang with Mooji this Sunday @ 7AM PST. 
I love mooji!
Laughing buddha video makes me laugh till I cry every time
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Sse
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Middleman]
#19236692 - 12/06/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Rev. Morton said: Live satsang with Mooji this Sunday @ 7AM PST. 
awesome where will that be?
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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akira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
#19237968 - 12/06/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Thecrimson said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: nah... not everyone does that. in it's purest form, prayer is devoid of thoughts, and is only on "the lord" (or however you call, which denomination one my be in)
and to be only "thinking of the lord", you'd have to be thinking pure thoughts... not selfish ones.
But if you are thinking ANY thoughts, even focused on your 'lord', it's not 'enlightenment'. Prayer suggests a purpose, enlightenment is just 'being'.
Not claiming to be definitely right, but enlightenment/pure awareness isn't something you can just will up. It's gonna happen either through practiced deep meditation or..drugs..
you can't see that they are essentially the same thing? have you ever been to an Imam or Church? the prayer is to the lord, with no forethought... meaning, "nothingness". the practitioners who do prayer correctly, won't be asking for a bigger raise or a new boat.
or other trivial thoughts... they'll be contemplating nothingness towards thoughts of the lord.
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Middleman

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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Sse]
#19238864 - 12/06/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sse said:
Quote:
Rev. Morton said: Live satsang with Mooji this Sunday @ 7AM PST. 
awesome where will that be?
Online: http://www.mooji.org/livesatsang/
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Thecrimson
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Middleman]
#19239877 - 12/07/13 08:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Rev. Morton said:
Quote:
Sse said:
Quote:
Rev. Morton said: Live satsang with Mooji this Sunday @ 7AM PST. 
awesome where will that be?
Online: http://www.mooji.org/livesatsang/
We're either talking about the same thing or we're not. I see prayer as more of a focused thought towards something. If they were truly experiencing the nothingness the world would be a different place.
And I like Mooji from what I've seen, but from the videos I've seen it seems like he keeps repeating himself.
Edited by Thecrimson (12/07/13 08:39 AM)
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akira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
#19239930 - 12/07/13 08:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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both goals are the same though. you realize that past the nothingness there is infinite indivisible being? (or so i've heard)
that equates to both practices being innately about the same end goal.
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Thecrimson
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: akira_akuma]
#19239949 - 12/07/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: both goals are the same though. you realize that past the nothingness there is infinite indivisible being? (or so i've heard)
that equates to both practices being innately about the same end goal.
I suppose, but it depends on if those people are actually experiencing that or just praising the idea.
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Middleman

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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Thecrimson]
#19239950 - 12/07/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Thecrimson said:
Quote:
Rev. Morton said:
Quote:
Sse said:
Quote:
Rev. Morton said: Live satsang with Mooji this Sunday @ 7AM PST. 
awesome where will that be?
Online: http://www.mooji.org/livesatsang/
We're either talking about the same thing or we're not. I see prayer as more of a focused thought towards something. If they were truly experiencing the nothingness the world would be a different place.
And I like Mooji from what I've seen, but from the videos I've seen it seems like he keeps repeating himself.
That's what all spiritual teachers do. I've had to listen to Jung, Nietzsche, Ram Dass, Adya, Mooji, Tolle, Campbell, Wilber, et al. literally hundreds of times before awakening began to happen.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Middleman]
#19239963 - 12/07/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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of course, that's true too.
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Sse
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Re: The pursuit of enlightenment is ridiculously stupid [Re: Middleman]
#19241351 - 12/07/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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thankie
-------------------- "Springs of water welling from the fire" "Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."
"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions." -Thich Nhat Hanh instant "Experience always goes beyond ideas"
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