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rawrrock
booger bean



Registered: 08/22/13
Posts: 121
Loc: Cold place!
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Nice work pasty.
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60G tea trip report.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: rawrrock]
#19405072 - 01/11/14 06:13 PM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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nice grow!
that mushroom from 3rd flush is uber dense!
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: The bottom watered containers are looking much better than there counterparts were, I think that was the problem. I will watch close to see if they need refills soon.

That looks decent at least. The mono was beauty. Thanks for slogging through it all. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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At least you disproved that whole "turn the lid a quarter turn for GE." That never made sense to me.
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sololas
Feel like a Stranger



Registered: 12/26/13
Posts: 476
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Oh by the way Pasty GREAT EFFORT ON a mission not completed. Anytime you can show results is a time worth while. Keep up with the trails and we shall see the rewards. Hats-off for trying doing a small version myself, so far I found that not all pp5 are strong enough for PC use. Im gonna buy the one with the thickest plastic I can find, had one crack while handling it....
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: At least you disproved that whole "turn the lid a quarter turn for GE." That never made sense to me.
What???
If anything, he proved it. Had some stalling (likely due to hi-loaded containers), then cracked the lid and they completed...
Why people are so quick jumping to false conclusions I'll never understand.
By the way, it was Never a "quarter turn", that's far too much. 1/8th inch to 1/2 inch for 'GE', 1 inch to 1 1/2 inch for 'invitro FAE'
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Sillyputty67

Registered: 10/06/12
Posts: 2,239
Loc: Netherlands
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19407493 - 01/12/14 09:25 AM (10 years, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
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Sgt. Pepper said: At least you disproved that whole "turn the lid a quarter turn for GE." That never made sense to me.
What???
If anything, he proved it. Had some stalling (likely due to hi-loaded containers), then cracked the lid and they completed...
Why people are so quick jumping to false conclusions I'll never understand.
By the way, it was Never a "quarter turn", that's far too much. 1/8th inch to 1/2 inch for 'GE', 1 inch to 1 1/2 inch for 'invitro FAE'
You guys are so inspiring. While reading over this, I thought about anaerobic fermentation (pasteurization) of substrate in a dry or at worst field capacity environment under co2.... This way you dont have to deal with stinky liquid. I have a co2 tank and might make a thread. I just need to figure out an air tight balloon or something. Ive used anaerobic fermentation under liquid in the past for oysters and it works great, although its smells like bad breath.
-------------------- 1) Everything I ever posted or say is a lie.
Edited by Sillyputty67 (01/12/14 09:36 AM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: He's a class-A troll, ignore him 
No shit, Does he blow up your inbox too? He doesn't even know how to set up a proper experiment. Glad to see that college degree you wear with honor really paid off 
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Pastywhyte said:
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FrankHorrigan said: And now this thread has absolutely nothing to do with the OP. Sorry pasty, this is why i warned you 
All good Frank, he's been bashing every thread I start in cultivation ever since his infamous oven tek. I don't care. He is not who I started this thread for, nor is he an individual whom I give even the slightest shit about.
Quote:
and you can now have the distinction of being the only person I have ever ignored.
I think I can second that.
He reminds me of this friend I have that think he knows a lot about physics and string theory and higgs bosons because he watched a special on TV. 
Anyway,
So no one has replicated the V-Tek Yet 
The new age is going to need a lot better people  Perhaps we're not cut out for it.
Edited by Trusted cuItivator (01/12/14 10:38 AM)
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: One of the premises of V tek is that it will equally produce or outproduce based on the amount of spawn and only the amount of spawn used. The idea is that while the bulk does provide some nutrients, their contribution is offset by the energy required to recover from the shake and reestablish the colony.
There's no kind of data that could easily show this. I go only on ability to observe what's happening in the lack of data for such multi-variable stuff. Rather I watch mindfully how the manifestation of some variables is effected by the variation of others.
This matter would be very extremely effected by the question of which bulk substrate is being used. The difference between vermiculite and straw is immense. Vermiculite may as well be slate stone crumbs as far as being food, it's used for water ability and fluffiness when added to mixtures, used alone for "reservoir effect" or to suspend brown rice flour amongst hydration. Straw may be second only to its grains in terms of food for Cubensis and several edibles species. Coir must have some plant matter value but altogether is not much food for the mushrooms, rather an ideally fluffy source of great watermass. Manure is hugely variable but lies somewhere between coir and straw, as manure is mostly partially-digested or greatly-digested grass.
(BTW, I would like to urge the community to begin yield and potency experiments between straw grows, made consistent & hydrous with manure additive, and coir/verm grows with equal 'spawn' ratio. See if it shows what it did for me.)
So the question of "nutrient dilution" depends greatly on the substrate that's doing the diluting.
But regardless, mycelium have very certain nutritional requirements which are difficult to measure, but which include things which are obvious such as metabolism resulting in large amounts of known gas release and heat. The mycelium are the majority of the culture and their life cycle is many times over in length that of the life of any mushroom grown from them. Destroying the original colony on the grains destroys all of the fruits of labor the culture has done with some of the resources of that grain which is our core nutrition, especially in grows of high 'spawn' ratios to low-nutrition substrate (esp. coir/verm)
Without destroying that original growth down to the mycelium only recently imbedded into the surface of the grains, and without the grain fueling super-expansion to 3-10 times as much as before over 'food' with much lesser nutrition spread-out over a huge water mass, it's no question that the substrate would have retained greater potential and health.
Just see for yourself - using straight-grains only. Grow out 2 containers of well-hydrated grain from isolate agar inoc. When they're both fully colonized with nice thick white growth, break up one of those containers as you would to 'spawn' but without opening it. Allow it to grow back out... then observe the apparent differences between the two containers, the one with original growth and the other 're-knit'
Although this is an effect less apparent post the colonization of watermass bulk, one can then fruit them on the same timeline where one container has consolidated and the other recovered, case them with just under 1/2 inch casing layer and immediately expose to conditions with controlled air exchange in favor of retained humidity.
Pasty. You saw that your bottom-watering was absorbed by the grain cake. It's obvious - and you'll see - that water will be used to grow into mushrooms.
What logical reason would there be to deny that, if the cake stays healthy and not yet expended per the BE capability of its culture, given the culture's proclivity to fruit in this configured manner, the mycelium will as effectively and efficiently as elsewise put all resources at hand to the best of their abilities?
In the attempt to super-stimulate their reproductive behavior within the bulk-sub method "box" of parameters which we force upon them, bulk colonization techniques and fruiting chamber pairings have allocations of resource expenditure that my technique does not.
Well-known BE numbers and yield expectancies, done in the spirit of maximizing any and all element of the grow, tell us clearly what grains are capable of. If only the cultivator can give them the best chances necessary to fully claim and utilize that food, and provide the proper balance of everything required (WATER), then the mushrooms will do what they can.
This shorter and more direct arrangement of the mycelium's life doesn't for sure mean that results will happen that way. We all know this. Doing things that would be described simply by "spawn grains to bulk sub" isn't assured to yield the best of monotub results. There are many other things that can effect this happening.
Different culture have different ability related to All manners of the grow. Although not widely known / realized, may it be Now, that in the spirit of incredibly wide spore culture variety, it is Assured that different cultures will react differently to such different circumstances, such as colonizing over all available water mass or having a configured process of water absorption and migration, for determining their fruiting attempts.
I would intend (expect even, from a culture I'd use on purpose) to get 66g or more from 1 'myco-quart' (up to 750mL) of grass seed or brown rice. But almost 700g fresh yield would depend on the culture's ability to utilize over 700mL of water over the course of their life cycle, when the containers would initially hold only up to 200-300mL of water in the grains when loaded for sterilization.
Dear Pasty, I have no further patience for the distortions and personal redirection of the wide spectrum of humanity and their intents which are all equally capable of posting on the internet. I am laying it out, and leveling with you.
When I am discussing the way I grow with you, far from and kind of childish insult or attack at your grow ability which is clear, or the likes of a personal slander against the abilities of your culture, I am only getting to the heart of perhaps why your results are not (at least not yet) like mine, which are clearly possible as shown in my threads and which I promise are easy when best learned how just like any other.
I'm not saying your culture is mediocre, or you stacked the comparison, or anything of that matter. I'm only observing your results as I would my own and thinking/trying what I would in the attempt to get the best results I could.
However, it is true that this "VS" comparison is done in clear and wonderful understanding of bulk procedure but is the first learning experiment with a quite different method. And it is sure to draw in people with "VS" attitudes about it who clearly cherry-pick, or draw non-sequitur or 'creative' conclusions, or make claims of personal wrongdoings when we're just trying to talk about fungi goddamnit. I'm not a confrontationalist, I'm a grow nerd conversationalist.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (01/12/14 12:29 PM)
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19411333 - 01/13/14 06:01 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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 I did the V-Tek!
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sololas
Feel like a Stranger



Registered: 12/26/13
Posts: 476
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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I know that the straw/manure mix will produce a more potent cube than using the verm/coir. As fsr as producing more cubes for the volume of substate that is what I would like to see results from. The only thing that I can say about this is the straw/manure produces stronger(potency) but is also more easliy contaminated than the verm/coir. Maybe get more flushes off the verm/coir but they won't be as high in psilocybin content. But I think Violet alread knows this im sure. Almost ready to tackle the manure next month... This might be a dumb question but its killing me that I can't find a answer,DOES kowanite still exist and where can I get some. HOPE i don't get bashedfor my lack of knowledge with KOWANITE?
And Violet keep up the informative posts sometimes peoples ego's get the better of them, to me ego's can't exist in research it seems it will always weigh on the end results in some way or another
Edited by sololas (01/13/14 07:52 AM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: sololas]
#19411524 - 01/13/14 07:56 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
sololas said: I know that the straw/manure mix will produce a more potent cube than using the verm/coir. As fsr as producing more cubes for the volume of substate that is what I would like to see results from. The only thing that I can say about this is the straw/manure produces stronger(potency) but is also more easliy contaminated than the verm/coir. Maybe get more flushes off the verm/coir but they won't be as high in psilocybin content.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
sololas said: I know that the straw/manure mix will produce a more potent cube than using the verm/coir. As fsr as producing more cubes for the volume of substate that is what I would like to see results from. The only thing that I can say about this is the straw/manure produces stronger(potency) but is also more easliy contaminated than the verm/coir. Maybe get more flushes off the verm/coir but they won't be as high in psilocybin content.
: thataintright :
No, actually, it's pretty close to correct. Shows what you know.
I don't think contam chance is that much higher between the two mixes as long as they're colonized before contams.
Given an equal amount of grain, my experience was that straw/manure yielded more than coir/verm.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19411547 - 01/13/14 08:05 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
sololas said: I know that the straw/manure mix will produce a more potent cube than using the verm/coir. As fsr as producing more cubes for the volume of substate that is what I would like to see results from. The only thing that I can say about this is the straw/manure produces stronger(potency) but is also more easliy contaminated than the verm/coir. Maybe get more flushes off the verm/coir but they won't be as high in psilocybin content.
: thataintright :
No, actually, it's pretty close to correct. Shows what you know.
I don't think contam chance is that much higher between the two mixes as long as they're colonized before contams.
Given an equal amount of grain, my experience was that straw/manure yielded more than coir/verm.
It is pretty well known that staw and manure is more likely to contam that coir. You can sterilize coir and be completely fine. You could never do that with straw and manure without a flow hood.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Uh, yeah, it's well known that you can sterilize coir and possibly get away with it. The comparison isn't sterilized coir and sterilized straw. It's pasteurized everything.
It would be idiocy to sterilize them both, then expose to contam, and say straw has higher contam chance as if it's a bad thing. Might as well fukken sterilize grain and vermiculite, then expose to contam, and say grain has a higher contam chance than verm, making grain inferior and verm the shoe-in choice for "spawn".
We know grain on its own will yield about infinitely more than vermiculite on its own, since verm inoc'd with LC won't yield a damn fresh gram. The very reason grain has a higher contam chance is the very reason it's the heart of our grows.
You have to skew logic to skew the comparison. Don't skew logic.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
Edited by Violet (01/13/14 08:20 AM)
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sololas
Feel like a Stranger



Registered: 12/26/13
Posts: 476
Loc: Atlantis
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Thanks V 
And the "kowanite"? still exist?
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19411572 - 01/13/14 08:18 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Quote:
spacechildo said:
Quote:
sololas said: I know that the straw/manure mix will produce a more potent cube than using the verm/coir. As fsr as producing more cubes for the volume of substate that is what I would like to see results from. The only thing that I can say about this is the straw/manure produces stronger(potency) but is also more easliy contaminated than the verm/coir. Maybe get more flushes off the verm/coir but they won't be as high in psilocybin content.
: thataintright :
No, actually, it's pretty close to correct. Shows what you know.
geez, way to go all mean teen on me. still, I stand by what I said. Didn't you get your potency-tek thread closed for BS'ing btw?
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Quote:
spacechildo said: Didn't you get your potency-tek thread closed for BS'ing btw? 
Nope I didn't. Troll.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: sololas]
#19411581 - 01/13/14 08:21 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Quote:
sololas said: Thanks V 
And the "kowanite"? still exist?
Idunno, but from what I read up on it, it's machine-processed manure. Doesn't seem to me like it would be that great.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! • Violet's Teks and Posts •
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JMcDoogle
A Serious Scholar


Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 1,495
Loc: Nunavut
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19411586 - 01/13/14 08:23 AM (10 years, 18 days ago) |
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Im just going to say this because I feel the need to..
You have a solid knowledge base and a useful technique, though...
Most people instead of arguing over eight months SAYING this and that would than turn to SHOWING us.
Perhaps YOU could do a SIDE - By - SIDE comparison, because after all the V-TEK is by comparison a huge advantage correct?
Im tired of all this nonsensical argumentative behavior, lets show some results...
Don't tell me, show me.
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The ego is nothing other than the focus of conscious attention.
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