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Josh.0
ConnoissurOfSorts


Registered: 11/25/13
Posts: 553
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call in sick bro! thats what I do!
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Josh.0]
#19395903 - 01/09/14 08:48 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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I'm loving that monotub!
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BigGreenMat
Stranger

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 161
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19395929 - 01/09/14 08:57 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: Too soon to speak that way maybe? Not even flush one? It's possible the vtek containers could get up and running. I was only observing so far, and mostly pointing to how hastily certain persons seem to be drawing biased or fallacious conclusions.
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BigGreenMat said: So are you saying we should water to the amount we want to flush exactly? So lets say from my container with 1 cup of brown rice. If I want a 100g fresh flush I should at 100ml of water? That is what it sounds like and what makes sense to me, but you don't clearly state it. You seem to just be alluding to stuff rather than stating it.
No, you're drawing some pretty creative statements for me to have supposedly implied. They'll only fruit what they'll fruit, but if they don't have the water for it they can't even do that much.
It would seem obvious that you should add 90% of your projected fruiting weight in water to fulfill the fungi's needs for mushroom growth. I don't see how that is creative. If you think I am drawing creative conclusions I am sorry, but you didn't say anything about how he should water and then started talking about how much water is in the grain and the potential output and say it is a limitation so watering is crucial. If watering is so crucial why don't you just say how you water? Is it that hard to say that?
Just say 'With a good isolate that I work with in a typical pint pp5 container with 1 cup of grains I add "insert number here" ml of water at this timepoint. I have read your teks many times and you just say bottom water, but never give any sort of range for watering or when to water other than 'when it finishes' or that you might dump extra water out if it doesn't seem to be drinking it up. How hard is it to be specific when directly asked. I just want an answer because I have a bunch of containers and would like to know. If you are unwilling to answer that is your prerogative, but please just say so and don't dance around like you are answering and then not.
I love the idea of the pp5 cased grain tek, but you are making it really hard to follow your lead with evasive answers and talk around.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Fallacies abound!
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twistedty said: dont matter i know a monotub is gonna own a bunch of cups. especially isolates etc its a no brainer
Why do people think it actually says anything that more grains dumped in a tub full of watermass yields more mushrooms? Duh. More grains, more water, more mushrooms. SAME grains, SAME water, SAME mushrooms. We also know that more distribution of a substrate means more mushrooms total in the end. Think about it. Everyone knows that a certain amount of substrate divided up more will yield more. The same volume of substrate divided into 2 monos will yield more than simply twice as deep in 1 mono.
Quit thinking about "more mushrooms per tub" and start thinking "more mushrooms per sub"
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Stromrider said: Vtek on the other hand seems to require more work
How so? (aka "look what you've got to seem with")
The "more work" that Pasty has done is due to his fruiting chamber, not the nature of the grow in it.
Pasty ACTUALLY did more tek-required work for the Bulks when he hydrated and treated bulk sub then broke-up grains and had to thoroughly mix them in a cut-to-size liner. With the exception of a snappy and thin easy casing, work towards his vtek grow was DONE at the point only the "spawn jars" were grown over.
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FrankHorrigan said:
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twistedty said: dont matter i know a monotub is gonna own a bunch of cups.
 We've never seen any hard evidence to the contrary...so until some pictures surface, all this rhetoric is just a waste of everyone's time.
Frank, I'm starting to think you live in Denial Land. Every time you want to assert your bias and vendetta against me, you pretend I don't have tek threads loaded with said photos. Photos of multiple flushes all much larger than Pasty's are so far, with yields weighed and photographed, shown with their containers before harvest.
I mean, come on, do I really need to just spam the photos that prove you wrong? Then people start saying "we've seen those photos before" and pretending, as if it's really worth believing, that they "don't prove anything", sticking their biased little heads in the sand.
It tries my patience. When will the bias, evasion, cherry-picking, contrivance, slander, pretense, ad hominem, and straw-man disinfo tactics end? When will you allow the very same facts that you acknowledge apply elsewhere apply to my grows as well? When will you quit pretending that grains and water are magically inferior when kept unbroken in containers under a casing layer?
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FrankHorrigan said: And for the record, cultures do not "prefer" a particular substrate just because you cloned a fruit grown from that substrate. That is complete bullshit.
I would wonder either about the intelligence or about the ulterior motives of someone who really thinks I said this or wants to make me look like an idiot by pretending I did say it.
May it suffice to say, "Duh." Try reading it again.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! β’ Violet's Teks and Posts β’
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19395980 - 01/09/14 09:09 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Can I suggest an experiment Pasty? Try a side by side with THE Oven Tek.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Quote:
BigGreenMat said: If watering is so crucial why don't you just say how you water? Is it that hard to say that?
I HAVE said it. Do I have to say everything in every post so that people don't claim I'm leaving out details? I have the details here in several places. I end up having to type enough already to avoid misunderstandings, I don't want every single post to start from the mycological top just so that people don't make the pretense that I'm being incomplete or leaving things out in any given single post.
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BigGreenMat said: but please just say so and don't dance around like you are answering and then not. but you are making it really hard to follow your lead with evasive answers and talk around.
This crap is really annoying. I'm posting and responding here to you guys. I answer everything fully. If anything, I tell lots of details, I'm always happy to give as lengthy of an answer as is called for. So, What evasive answers? What talk around? People acting as if I'm being a way that I clearly am not makes me want to not bother talking with you guys. The pretense that I'm being a certain way simply by not appearing to be its opposite is taxing and a waste of all our times, and only makes for more annoying text for people to read in the future of these threads. See below.
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BigGreenMat said: Just say 'With a good isolate that I work with in a typical pint pp5 container with 1 cup of grains I add "insert number here" ml of water at this timepoint. I have read your teks many times and you just say bottom water, but never give any sort of range for watering or when to water other than 'when it finishes' or that you might dump extra water out if it doesn't seem to be drinking it up. How hard is it to be specific when directly asked.
The answer you're asking for doesn't exist. You're thinking I'm dancing around by not giving a complicated answer to your question, but that's because there's no such answer.
It's this simple. They'll draw what they'll draw based on their yield. You can only provide water for them and let them draw as much as they will into as much as they'll yield. You can't magically get a 100 gram yield by putting 100mL into the container as you tried to infer from what I said about yield being limited by water. That's almost taking what I was talking about in an impossible opposite direction, and I am not to be seen as being evasive for not going in-depth into why that obviously doesn't happen.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! β’ Violet's Teks and Posts β’
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19395991 - 01/09/14 09:13 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Forget it.
Edited by teknix (01/10/14 01:15 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: teknix]
#19396026 - 01/09/14 09:20 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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dood the oven tek kicks ASS! I did run the side by side, I just can't post any pics. See it contamed on me but that's cause I lack the necessary lab skills to sterilize in my oven
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magickspore



Registered: 12/11/12
Posts: 798
Loc: Center of the universe.
Last seen: 8 months, 4 days
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19396034 - 01/09/14 09:21 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
I still have one of my "last-gen" cultures that does pretty darn well. This one. No photos are 1st flush, some are 2nd, most are 3-5th
     
wow I'm impressed... Lord I've seen the light I will convert!
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19396045 - 01/09/14 09:23 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:
Insufficient FAE. Might want to let those breathe a bit more, Violet.
I'd also like to point out that I get pretty whenever someone shows me a forced perspective shot, let alone four of them. You're not fooling anybody with those, and as a grower I know you're better than that and have no need for trickery to prove your point.
Edited by Psilicon (01/09/14 09:30 PM)
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Hehe, you laugh, but as it was said that culture is one of my "last-gen" cultures which met my standards when on "bulks" but fell below them on this grow method.
If you want to really think something funny, as yourself if your mono's 3rd flushes have this yield in fruit per area.

Although first-flush photos may not look impressive to eyes only capable of seeing skin deep, the point is that I get more mushrooms from a pound of grain when I use it this way opposed to when I do it the ways I used to, including bulk.
Rather I find myself laughing that people don't realize their materials are yielding less regardless of how impressive their photos may look. Canopies are deceptive when they're growing on several times as much substrate.
Quote:
van der griegen said:
Quote:
Violet said:
Insufficient FAE. Might want to let those breathe a bit more, Violet.
You're wrong. That's a giant greenhouse, I always have more air than I need, even for Oysters. That culture simply loves growing tall. If you observe, the stems are hardly fuzzy compared to most people's monotub grows which are often far fuzzier.
And in any case, even if you were right, how relevant is what you consider sufficient? If I get full yields, was it not sufficient?
Cut the spin, and catch up on knowledge. Our friend TL certainly knows better than you do. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18197312#18197312
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! β’ Violet's Teks and Posts β’
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19396082 - 01/09/14 09:32 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Yeah violet, he used a multispore innoc for your test and an isolate for his, (imo)
If you guys aren't familiar with Semmelweis, watch this video.
Edited by teknix (01/10/14 01:15 AM)
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19396094 - 01/09/14 09:36 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said: You're wrong. That's a giant greenhouse, I always have more air than I need, even for Oysters. That culture simply loves growing tall. If you observe, the stems are hardly fuzzy compared to most people's monotub grows which are often far fuzzier.
And in any case, even if you were right, how relevant is what you consider sufficient? If I get full yields, was it not sufficient?
Cut the spin, and catch up on knowledge. Our friend TL certainly knows better than you do. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18197312#18197312
You're certainly right about TL knowing a lot better than I do. And when I look at his tall, fuzzy greenhouse pics, they don't have the spindly look indicative of mushrooms searching desperately for air.
Full yields is somewhat of a tautology, if what you consider a full yield is the yield you just got. All of my grows are 100% by that metric as well.
There is no spin, and I think you're perceiving an enemy where there isn't one. Many people are actually hoping V-tek pulls ahead. I'm one of them, and have said so to Pasty several times. I've posted a pic of my own v-tek grow in your tek's thread--it's very impressive, albeit multispore. I really want to see an upset here.
So cut the spin, cut the forced perspective shots and quit being so goddamn prickly.
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Violet



Registered: 12/06/11
Posts: 4,205
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: teknix]
#19396099 - 01/09/14 09:38 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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I'm sure Pasty didn't stack the deck like that. I entirely believe he used the same isolate for both. I simply refer to things I've said several times before about the matter of thinking that isolate cultures isolate the genetic variable for testing such different circumstances. They don't, not perfectly and assured at least. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18431462#18431462
See how people distract from the fact that larger flushes from my containers means that flushes can be far larger than Pasty has had so far. If they don't make that distraction, they cannot pretend that Pasty's so-far so-so results means the tek sucks, and they so badly want that pretense.
Quote:
van der griegen said: You're certainly right about TL knowing a lot better than I do. And when I look at his tall, fuzzy greenhouse pics, they don't have the spindly look indicative of mushrooms searching desperately for air.
See, there's the thing. You evidently think you are capable of assuredly identifying that my mushrooms are doing this. That's simply how that strain is. It's a rather different one than most of my others which is why I keep it. It grows very tall. There are other strains in the same greenhouse at the same time that don't have the behaviour.
My point is then that if you think you're capable of determining when my mushrooms are lacking FAE then you need to rethink your observational abilities. You're wrong, they don't have FAE lack. You're letting unique morphology fool you, and then pretending I need to "cut the spin, cut the forced perspective shots and quit being so goddamn prickly" when I point out that simple fact. People who think these things about me are always projecting.
-------------------- Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it! PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers The simplest, quickest, safest tek! For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers! β’ Violet's Teks and Posts β’
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19396127 - 01/09/14 09:49 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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nevermind, they probably are the same.
Edited by teknix (01/09/14 10:02 PM)
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: teknix]
#19396146 - 01/09/14 09:56 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Anyways, his should have better BE because there is more surface area exposed to be able to fruit, regardless of genetics. Also he has a single organism working on the sub, rather than 6 organisms.
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BigGreenMat
Stranger

Registered: 11/04/13
Posts: 161
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: teknix]
#19396167 - 01/09/14 10:03 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Dude, surgeons are the biggest cocks ever. Talk about god complexes....
(I say this with several surgeon friends )
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teknix
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Most scientist learn about him, so they don't make the same sort of mistakes by immediately dismissing stuff that don't fit into their world view. Science learns from it's mistakes generally, that's what makes it so great!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: V-Tek meets Bulk [Re: Violet]
#19396182 - 01/09/14 10:07 PM (10 years, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
Violet said:They'll draw what they'll draw based on their yield. You can only provide water for them and let them draw as much as they will into as much as they'll yield.
Spot on, a bit of bottom watering keeps 'em topped up and pumping out fruits.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Psilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
Violet said:
 
Wait, you think I'm projecting when I tell you that these are forced perspective shots? Then wait until you see the bigass fish this guy really caught, and this giant megacamel kissing this lady!
Don't give us pictures with a mushroom or two in the immediate foreground with the only scale diminished by perspective in the background and then accuse us of spin in the same breath. Not only is it hypocritical, it's transparent and sad.
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