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spaceman101
Friend to all


Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Psycadelic cacti
#19218410 - 12/02/13 05:44 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hey guys I'm new to cacti and I'm very interested in different cacti that have large amounts of mescaline in them I know I've seen a lot about san pedro which has a smaller amount and tastes horrible and I know about peyote Which I would love to try my hand at someday if I can ever find any seeds. I was wandering if their are any other Lophophora other than peyote that have any in them since I love how they look and what other cactus have you guys tried and loved? Any info will help me decide what the best thing to do would be. Thanks
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
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You can order seeds. They are legal. They take a long time to grow, but it is cool to have some around for aesthetics.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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Uneak
Hi

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 413
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I don't think the seeds are legal in the U.S. From Erowid: (22) Peyote Meaning all parts of the plant presently classified botanically as Lophophora williamsii Lemaire, whether growing or not, the seeds thereof, any extract from any part of such plant, and every compound, manufacture, salts, derivative, mixture, or preparation of such plant, its seeds or extracts (Interprets 21 USC 812(c), Schedule I(c) (12))
Some people argue that the other Lophophora species should be legal, as they're not specifically mentioned. I don't think any of the species aside from williamsii and jourdiana have any mescaline.
Quote:
[Estimation of mescaline and pellotine in Lophophora coulter plants (Cactaceae) by means of the oscillographic polarography] V Gabermann Oscillographic polarography has been applied for the mescaline and pellotine estimation. These alkaloids produce in 0.5 N NaOH electrolyte a sharp peak within the cathode region of the oscillogram, each of them showing different potential. It makes possible to estimate them at a concentration of 5.10(-6) g/ml. All the forms of Lophophora williamsii were found to contain mescaline and lower content of pellothine, L. jourdaniana--to have equal content of both alkaloide, L. diffusa and L. fricii--to contain pellotine and only traces of mescaline. Plants grown in the greenhouse accumulated the same amount of alkaloids as native plants. Grafting on roodstock which does not produce essential amount of the alkaloids, does not affect the ability of Lophophora to synthesize mescaline and pellotine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/647075
I got this from this thread: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18514653
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


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Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
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Re: Psycadelic cacti [Re: Uneak]
#19218500 - 12/02/13 06:00 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmm, well I know for a fact plenty of companies will send it to the US, I have gotten them several times.
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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Uneak
Hi

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 413
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Yeah, there used to be a Shroomery sponsor that had very discreet shipping for seeds and plants, but they're no longer a sponsor.
As for the other cactus, the species that I've heard to be most consistent in terms of activity is bridgesii. You could order cuttings from sponsors, like World Seed Supply, or from other companies online.
The potency of cactus does vary from specimen to specimen though, so there are some pachanoi like the PC (predominant cultivar) pedro which are very low in activity, as well as pachanoi which are very potent. If you want to grow the cactus for consumption, bridgesii would probably be your best bet. They also can look amazing with their large spines and bluish hue.
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nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
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Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Order yourself some bridgesii
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
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Re: Psycadelic cacti [Re: Uneak]
#19218615 - 12/02/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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There is a shitload of vendors that ship them all over the world. Mod edit: No non shroomery sponsor talk please
Edited by karode13 (12/02/13 06:31 PM)
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karode13
Tāne Mahuta




Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,290
Loc: LV-426
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Lets not turn this into a source thread people. There's a list of sponsors that are reputable at the top of the page. That's all that needs to be said.
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


Registered: 07/08/12
Posts: 5,288
Loc: Pee En Double You
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Re: Psycadelic cacti [Re: karode13]
#19218682 - 12/02/13 06:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
karode13 said: Lets not turn this into a source thread people. There's a list of sponsors that are reputable at the top of the page. That's all that needs to be said.
Not if you want different varities of Loph seeds there isn't
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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spaceman101
Friend to all


Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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so what about other actives is mescaline the only compound in cacti? And how fast growing are some of these? How about bridgesii and pachanoi?
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Uneak
Hi

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 413
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World Seed Supply actually does stock some other varieties of Lophophora on their Blujay page, which you can find in his journal.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18021101
That said, I haven't had very good germination on their Lophophora seeds. It could be user error, as I'm still new to plants, or just how those species germinate but the rates were much lower than the other cactus seeds I sowed from WSS 
Edit: Bridgesii and pachanoi are very fast growing. After they reach a good size, they can grow a foot or more each year. Lophophora aren't very feasible to grow for consumption when compared to the growth rate of Trichocereus.
Edited by Uneak (12/02/13 06:50 PM)
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Ultron
alchemist programmer




Registered: 08/04/13
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Federal law prohibits possession of Peyote except to those who are members of the Native American Church (NAC) and can prove 25% Native American ancestry. However, the "bonafide religious use" of Peyote is exempted, regardless of race in Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada and Oregon (by Supreme Court Judicial Consent—see Smith vs. Employment Division 1991).
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LiquidGlass
Glass Blower


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Loc: Pee En Double You
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Re: Psycadelic cacti [Re: Uneak]
#19218808 - 12/02/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Uneak said: World Seed Supply actually does stock some other varieties of Lophophora on their Blujay page, which you can find in his journal.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18021101
That said, I haven't had very good germination on their Lophophora seeds. It could be user error, as I'm still new to plants, or just how those species germinate but the rates were much lower than the other cactus seeds I sowed from WSS 
Edit: Bridgesii and pachanoi are very fast growing. After they reach a good size, they can grow a foot or more each year. Lophophora aren't very feasible to grow for consumption when compared to the growth rate of Trichocereus.
The only things I see on that site are different varities of lophophora, but no varities of lophophora williamsii(peyote)
-------------------- Some art I've made Glass Art Gallery
  I was raised a christian and was a stone-faced acid head - Ken Kesey
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Uneak
Hi

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 413
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Yeah, they only sell the non-williamsii species since they're not mentioned in the law.
Spaceman, I've heard that bridgesii has a makeup of alkaloids that is more similar to peyote than the other Trichocereus, and that it does affect the trip.
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spaceman101
Friend to all


Registered: 01/18/13
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Re: Psycadelic cacti [Re: Uneak]
#19222327 - 12/03/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Federal law prohibits possession of Peyote except to those who are members of the Native American Church (NAC) and can prove 25% Native American ancestry
That's great since I have a good cherokee and lacota heritage but I'm not in the native American church nor on a reservation. That's one of the main reasons that I'm so interested in mescaline and maybe adding it to my spiritual use of other psycadelic compounds.
Quote:
Spaceman, I've heard that bridgesii has a makeup of alkaloids that is more similar to peyote than the other Trichocereus, and that it does affect the trip.
I've heard a bit about bridgesii but very little about Trichocereus can anyone maybe with first hand experience explain the difference in the alkaloid compounds and how that effects the trip and the spirituality and learning experience that you get in the end? How about the difference between peyotes experience verses bridgesii, Trichocereus and pachanoi?
Edited by spaceman101 (12/05/13 10:49 AM)
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Uneak
Hi

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 413
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Trichocereus is the genus name, so there is Trichocereus bridgesii Trichocereus pachanoi, and all the other Trichocereus.
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spaceman101
Friend to all


Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Re: Psycadelic cacti [Re: Uneak]
#19230754 - 12/05/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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so I guess theirs not many people that have tried different sources of mescaline but their has to be at least 1 person on here that can explain how peyote effected the mind and body verses how Trichocereus bridgesii and Trichocereus pachanoi worked. (1)Like what exactly was the differences? (2)Were they major or minor differences in body high or mind expansion? (3)How much did you have to eat for these effects? I've never used or even come across peyote or mescaline before and I was wandering what exactly is a peyote button?(4)Is it the whole cactus at a young age hence the word button? Or is it a large 10 or 15 year old adult that has had pieces cut off making a peyote button?(5)How much peyote do people normally eat to get that experience is it by weight or size?
If anyone has any information that could help me understand any of these questions please answer any of the question that you can and I would greatly appreciate any information that you could share with me. Thanks friends
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
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Quote:
spaceman101 said:
Quote:
Federal law prohibits possession of Peyote except to those who are members of the Native American Church (NAC) and can prove 25% Native American ancestry
That's great since I have a good cherokee and lacota heritage but I'm not in the native American church nor on a reservation. That's one of the main reasons that I'm so interested in mescaline and maybe adding it to my spiritual use of other psycadelic compounds.
Quote:
Spaceman, I've heard that bridgesii has a makeup of alkaloids that is more similar to peyote than the other Trichocereus, and that it does affect the trip.
I've heard a bit about bridgesii but very little about Trichocereus can anyone maybe with first hand experience explain the difference in the alkaloid compounds and how that effects the trip and the spirituality and learning experience that you get in the end? How about the difference between peyotes experience verses bridgesii, Trichocereus and pachanoi?
I have never consume peyote but what I have read and what I have experience of mescaline from various cacti strain of trichocerei.. There are still not much of difference and you need really take few times both plants to get effects to feel the minor effects from another plant. Otherwise experience can be said it's similar and same if not count these small effects first time user usually don't even notice. Main compound is mescaline anyway...
I mean in order to you feel the effects, main compound is mescaline, then plants contains another alkaloids also and some of them have minor effects to mind and body and they possible effects with each other and effects to the mescaline..
Anyway, trip and experience are not so different compared to consuming peyote or trichocereus cacti. Main active alkaloid what causes the whole experience is mescaline.. Only small differences there are anyway, even when compared to different strain of trichocereus to another one. But after all, effects are pretty much same, some can be more euphoric and relaxing and some can be more "speedy" but anyway mescaline is the main compound making the experience and without doing several trips with several different plants and comparing them you can't feel the difference and probably if you could do a "blind test" (without see, taste or smell the product) you would not notice the difference of peyote or trichocereus cacti if you have not experienced both several times to even notice the differences of the experience.
With big doses effects are anyway so overwhelming and pleasant I can say you probably don't even care what species of cacti(peyote or san pedro) you have ingested. The magic of mescaline cacti is just... well... something you never forget and you start to respect the plant for the rest of your life 
I have taken mescaline few times in my life(few different strain of trichocereus) and after the strong experience of mescaline I've felt I have learned enough and I don't need to consume it for long time or ever more.. Even I love the mystic and euphoria of whole experience mescaline is the one I don't feel I need psychedelics anymore or if I need I need t have a very good reason for it... It's not for recreational use for me.
I have gone strong experience trough and know what kind of strong effects are. I don't feel necessary to take mescaline anymore but I feel lots of interesting to care the sacred plants contains the power of knowledge and magic. Now days having a living plant with strong magic inside gives me the pleasure, not the consuming of plant... During the experience I have start to respect mescaline cacti very different way, I find I need to cultivate these cacti, I felt I need to be the keeper of knowledge and I find out it's a job I have to do because plant have teach me so much.. I felt I need to give something back to cacti and make sure the magic will stay as living sacred plant without disrespect the cacti. 
Maybe sometimes I take mescaline again but the moment is then when I feel I need to learn or understand something what I don't know yet but I know sacred medicine gives the answer for it.
I can't say why some people don't take trichocereus as alternative for peyote, it can be just a tradition to take peyote.. Eating trichocereus compared to peyote is different, peyote is not so slimy and ugly texture, peyote button is easier to chew but anyway, taste is bad no matter of species. Yes I have test taste and texture of peyote but not much to get trip out of it, peyote has not the slimy texture what trichocereus plants have.
I think probably peyote is just the plant for some people even there is an alternative. It can be probably just a tradition what cannot be changed to just start using a trichocereus as alternative even the main compound of both are same. Maybe it's just a tradition what plant should be used, not so much because what effects these plants give.. Peyote and trichocereus have almost same active mind altering alkaloids but peyote have more alkaloids total and all alkaloid effects are just not know what they cause to human body or mind much. Most of all I dare to say mescaline and some analogues of the compound are the main thing makes the whole experience.
Just my theory 'bout it.
Edited by intelligentlife (12/05/13 12:30 PM)
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Magicman69
All About the Benjamins



Registered: 05/29/13
Posts: 6,876
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I agree the experience was great, but I enjoy the presense of the plant in my home and the vibes it puts off. I'm getting much more joy from nurchering it and watching it grow than from a one time experience. Plus I live in a warm climate where it can grow pretty much all year
Edited by Magicman69 (12/05/13 12:57 PM)
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Quote:
Magicman69 said: I agree the experience was great, but I enjoy the presense of the plant in my home and the vibes it puts off. I'm getting much more joy from nurchering it and watching it grow than from a one time experience. Plus I live in a warm climate where it can grow pretty much all year
I meant this too.. The presence of san pedro and peyote gives good vibes. Care the and keep them is very pleasant. More deeper vibes about presence of cacti gives when you know they are really the potent ones. 
It's something I can't explain and I cannot understand before I had an experience of strong mescaline trip.. I have been grow these plants before trip as well but deeper connection to plants what has give me the experience makes me respect these plants. They give good vibe as their presence. I just want they grow and flourish. 
I have not even think the consuming of plant no more., more pleasure I get when I know I have strong sacred mescaline containing plants in garden
Edited by intelligentlife (12/05/13 01:12 PM)
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