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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: Deviate] * 3
    #19208485 - 11/30/13 12:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Spiritual teachers, priests are necessary because man is so weak he cannot approach his God himself.




I'm truly sorry if you really believe this.  :sad:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Offlineall this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: deCypher] * 3
    #19208519 - 11/30/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Spiritual teachers, priests are necessary because man is so weak he cannot approach his God himself.




I'm truly sorry if you really believe this.  :sad:



And there we have it.  In a nutshell.

The disempowerment of humankind by institutional religion.

This is why (with a few notable exceptions) institutional religion is the single most deadly and toxic influence in the world today.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: all this beauty]
    #19210181 - 11/30/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ALL Christ-ains are different. They all think different shot. shit*


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: deCypher]
    #19213409 - 12/01/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Spiritual teachers, priests are necessary because man is so weak he cannot approach his God himself.




I'm truly sorry if you really believe this.  :sad:




What's there to be sorry about?


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: all this beauty]
    #19213423 - 12/01/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

all this beauty said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Spiritual teachers, priests are necessary because man is so weak he cannot approach his God himself.




I'm truly sorry if you really believe this.  :sad:



And there we have it.  In a nutshell.

The disempowerment of humankind by institutional religion.

This is why (with a few notable exceptions) institutional religion is the single most deadly and toxic influence in the world today.




The role of the spiritual teacher is to empower people, to make them self sufficient.


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Offlineall this beauty
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Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: Deviate]
    #19213638 - 12/01/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
The role of the spiritual teacher is to empower people, to make them self sufficient.



That is certainly the dominant theory among most people.  It's a noble sentiment, but in practice I don't think it works that way.

I identify closely with the work of U.G. Krishnamurti (not to be confused with his contemporary, Jiddu Krishnamurti), an Indian thinker who died in 2007.  U.G. would often send followers away, telling them that there was nothing to understand and that he had nothing to teach them.

I think he understood the disempowerment of the "follower" that accompanies the teachings of a "master."

Not everyone's cup of tea, this.

For sure. :wink:


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: all this beauty]
    #19215039 - 12/01/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am familiar with and a fan of U.G. Krishnamurti (not to be confused with Jiddu Krishnamurti as you said). If I recall correctly (it's been a long time since I read anything by him) rather than describing enlightenment as a positive, desirable and wondrous thing, he said it would be extremely unpleasant for anyone desiring it and in reference to himself, he called it "the calamity".

Anyway, on the rare occasions when my excessive spiritual efforts have actually resulted in progress, I have been reminded of him, because it generally means confronting the most unpleasant truth which I then immediately try to bury and escape from despite the fact that I had been working so hard to achieve it.

We dont really want enlightenment, what we want is happiness and freedom from suffering and we are told that enlightenment brings those things so we associate enlightenment with something good and we think we want it. But if we really wanted it, we would have it. Instead, what we want is happiness with our ego still intact. Enlightenment offers happiness but the catch is, it is not happiness for the ego. However, because we cannot proplerly concieve of non egoic experience from the perspective of egvo, we cannot help but envision enlightenment as being happiness for the ego, and that is the misconception that makes actual enlightenment so unpleasant.


Edited by Deviate (12/01/13 10:57 PM)


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: Deviate] * 2
    #19216950 - 12/02/13 12:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Spiritual teachers, priests are necessary because man is so weak he cannot approach his God himself.




I'm truly sorry if you really believe this.  :sad:




What's there to be sorry about?




IMO any belief system that promotes the idea that we're so weak we can't approach God/our spirituality ourselves is incredibly disempowering and ultimately detrimental for our personal growth.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
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Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
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Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #19217828 - 12/02/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Spiritual teachers, priests are necessary because man is so weak he cannot approach his God himself.




I'm truly sorry if you really believe this.  :sad:




What's there to be sorry about?




IMO any belief system that promotes the idea that we're so weak we can't approach God/our spirituality ourselves is incredibly disempowering and ultimately detrimental for our personal growth.



That is the reason any religion has priests or ministers, to establish control over the deceived and fleece the flock.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlineall this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19218209 - 12/02/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
That is the reason any religion has priests or ministers, to establish control over the deceived and fleece the flock.



True for most of institutional religion, but not all.

I try to be careful not to do what fundamentalist religionists do -- which is to broad-brush without exception.

I've attended Unitarian-Universalist services, for example.  They have leaders -- "ministers," I suppose one might call them -- but I observed no efforts on anyone's part to control or deceive.  It was simply a gathering of spiritual people on a spiritual quest.  A very cool thing, in my opinion.

Likewise, if you've ever attended a Reform or Reconstructionist Jewish synagogue, the atmosphere is generally not one of "controller and the controlled."

All major religions have such islands, such oases.

They're in the minority, but they're out there.


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
Goodbye, Mr. Chops.
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Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 15,270
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: all this beauty]
    #19234678 - 12/06/13 12:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I personally think that way back when societies were being formed, little men with higher IQ's got together and realized they could use people's ideas about the mystical for their own purposes.  They could suddenly brainwash men into doing anything they want.  Killing, raping, torturing, all permissible if they don't worship our "God".  Reminds me of what they said about Hassan I Sabbah saying right before decapitated. "Nothing is true. All is permissable".
Once the mystical experience got taken out of the hands of the individual it was bound to go south.
Makes you wonder how our society would be if we had a more Shamanistic view of spirituality. By that I mean experiential based spirituality.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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Offlineall this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 1 month
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #19235626 - 12/06/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
Makes you wonder how our society would be if we had a more Shamanistic view of spirituality. By that I mean experiential based spirituality.



The way I see it, spirituality (understood broadly) is a "felt thing," not a "head thing." 

You can go to church every Sunday for the rest of your life, but if it's purely a rote or intellectual thing, then it's probably a waste of your time.  You're probably going through the motions as a result of guilt and/or fear piled on you by family or others.


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OfflineAllisterem
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 83
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: all this beauty]
    #19235827 - 12/06/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I was inspired to follow a path of goodwill and search for wisdom by a Catholic priest who chose to aspire to be like Jesus.  One of the reasons I like the new pope.


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OfflineAllisterem
Stranger
Registered: 12/04/13
Posts: 83
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: Christianity and religion and the control grid [Re: Allisterem]
    #19235843 - 12/06/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I realized that I would have to uncover the truths of the world by myself when as a child I saw that the leader of the U.S. (Bill Clinton) at the time. Was lying to everyone on T.V. 

That was a major revelation, "Trust your authority figures!" when the people in charge are not to be trusted.


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