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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19216880 - 12/02/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: All that info explaining how and why bucket tek will never properly pasteurize something and you just say thanks for the link? 
Here'e another.
These are full of the kinds of responses that are going to appear here too.
Bucket tek will never work as proper pasteurization.
Coir doesn't need proper pasteurization to work.
So you can't call something proper pasteurization when it isn't. Esp when you are judging by coir and verm. 
Want to impress people? Get hpoo to work with a bucket. Then you'll impress a lot of folk.
Fair enough, you are the tc and I do respect your opinion. I'm not trying to be that noob that tries to reinvent the pf tek or something, I understand why the traditional bucket tek is not proper pasteurization, and I'm not trying to get on anyone's nerves, I am just trying to make pasteurization (proper or not) in a bucket more reliable. Seriously, I'm not trying to start a debate or anything, I'm just posting my findings.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19216892 - 12/02/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm not taking offense or trying to squash your ideas 
I'm saying that this has been gone over again and again.
Coir is the worst judge for pasteurization. It will work even when prepared like shit or just straight up PC'd for 90 minutes at 15PSI.
I was trying to save you the time and effort, and clear up some common misconceptions this thread has been operating under
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19216927 - 12/02/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: I'm not taking offense or trying to squash your ideas 
I'm saying that this has been gone over again and again.
Coir is the worst judge for pasteurization. It will work even when prepared like shit or just straight up PC'd for 90 minutes at 15PSI.
I was trying to save you the time and effort, and clear up some common misconceptions this thread has been operating under 
Thank you for that, I agree, coir is a bad judge but it's all I have at the moment and it allowed me to see the temperatures which is what I was really looking for. You know how on mythbusters they do a small scale preliminary test? Think of this as that. This test gave me a starting point and let me see for myself how possible it was. I'll do a couple more test runs with coir, and if I can keep it within proper pasteurization temps for an hour and a half, I will go full scale and try it with hpoo. Am I expecting success? Probably not, but shit is cheap and I see no reason not to experiment. Again, I have lots of respect for you and I doubt pasteurization in a bucket will ever be as successful as pasteurization in jars, but I like to experiment.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19216953 - 12/02/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey man, more power to ya.
You will impress a thousand cultivators if you can consistently make hpoo work with a simple bucket tek.
I will give a friendly warning though..a few too many improperly pasteurized hpoo tubs is gonna turn your stomach pretty hard
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19217080 - 12/02/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: Hey man, more power to ya.
You will impress a thousand cultivators if you can consistently make hpoo work with a simple bucket tek.
I will give a friendly warning though..a few too many improperly pasteurized hpoo tubs is gonna turn your stomach pretty hard 
I'm certainly prepared to see some scary contams and that's why I think I won't actually add any spawn until I have a method down. I think what I'll do is have a control consisting of jar pasteurized hpoo. Then I'll have modified bucket pasteurized hpoo in a separate container. I'll keep them both uncovered under identical conditions and see which contaminates first. Something along those lines. Wish me luck, I'm sure I'll be seeing plenty of trich and cobweb the next few months.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19217087 - 12/02/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No matter how you use the bucket, the outer edge never seems to hold temperature for the right amount of time.
The core may stay at 140-160 for 1 hour, but the outer edges drop below 140 within 30 minutes it seems. I've done experiments with different insulation and I just can't seem to get the outer edge to hold temperature long enough.
My understanding of pasteurization requires the entire substrate to be at least pasteurization temperature for at least 1 hour. If it doesn't, then the stuff we want to kill will not be dead.
It's okay for the outer region to go above as long as the center does not, but the outer has to meet the minimum.
Like FH said, CVG is not a good indicator of proper pasteurization success. But, proper temperature monitoring is. The low temperature of the outer regions can't be ignored.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: SpitballJedi]
#19217099 - 12/02/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: I'm certainly prepared to see some scary contams
You probably won't see it at first...but you will smell it 
Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Like FH said, CVG is not a good indicator of proper pasteurization success. But, proper temperature monitoring is. The low temperature of the outer regions can't be ignored.
I mean, the temps are pretty uneven from the start too. Evenly heating the substrate from the outside in makes a big difference.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19217143 - 12/02/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I agree. I just wanted to point out the often ignored low temps of the outer region when using the bucket.
I have some ideas on how to make it work, but it's not cost effective at my production level. I've pretty much given up on it.
-------------------- The Basics A little civility goes a long way The Noob Forum The Hammock Hangers' Forum
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: SpitballJedi]
#19217150 - 12/02/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: No matter how you use the bucket, the outer edge never seems to hold temperature for the right amount of time.
The core may stay at 140-160 for 1 hour, but the outer edges drop below 140 within 30 minutes it seems. I've done experiments with different insulation and I just can't seem to get the outer edge to hold temperature long enough.
My understanding of pasteurization requires the entire substrate to be at least pasteurization temperature for at least 1 hour. If it doesn't, then the stuff we want to kill will not be dead.
It's okay for the outer region to go above as long as the center does not, but the outer has to meet the minimum.
Like FH said, CVG is not a good indicator of proper pasteurization success. But, proper temperature monitoring is. The low temperature of the outer regions can't be ignored.
This is great information. Maybe submerging the bucket in a hot water bath to keep it at temperature similar to that person who pasteurized in a kitty litter bucket. The difference would be that I would dump the hot water into the bucket and keep it at temperature by putting it in a hot water bath instead of using the hot water bath to get it to temperature. But thank you, that was incredibly helpful.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19217175 - 12/02/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sgt. Pepper said: keep it at temperature by putting it in a hot water bath
At what temp, 160F? You'll need to heat the water to keep that temp, unless you want to constantly be heating and pouring more hot water in.
Then your temps are going to be going all over the place too.
At that point, it's much simpler and way more effective to just pasteurize properly in a hot water bath using jars or a large bag.
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Sgt. Pepper



Registered: 06/19/13
Posts: 2,538
Loc: Third Stone From The Sun
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#19217241 - 12/02/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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True, my houses sink gets to 150 degrees so if I were to fill up the sink with hot water it may be able to help resist the change in temps. I'll play with it. You guys have been immensely helpful on the subject and it's clear I have a contam filled road ahead of me, but hopefully I can overcome it and revolutionize the pasteurization process. I'll expect the worst but hope for the best.
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JohnnieYen
Okay



Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 3,529
Loc: City Z
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: Sgt. Pepper]
#19217390 - 12/02/13 01:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been experimenting with hot water bath with a bucket. I use canning pots and small bungee cords to keep the bucket submerged. I also use portable burners
I start with hot water so my coir temps are near 140. Then put the bucket in the boiling water in the canning pot.
I have to mix the substrate every 10-15 min until the whole sub is heated evenly. You have to because the top 2-3" heat slower than the rest. Keep moving my digi thermometer to make sure everything is above 140.
Once you hit those temps is when I set my timer for 90 min. I also keep the lid of the bucket loosley on.
Just experimenting but things look good so far.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: Proper pasteurization in a bucket [Re: JohnnieYen]
#19217454 - 12/02/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's coir. Of course it works
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