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OfflineAnao
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Registered: 12/14/12
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Are these too uncolonized to spawn?
    #19216307 - 12/02/13 08:17 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think some grains have dried out. It has been 1 month since I inoculated them.
Some have very colonized spots, completely thick mycelium, while other grains have only some small mycelium "strings" on them, and the grain doesn't look fully colonized at all. I think they might have dried, not contam'd.
So, would it be fine to spawn them this way? Considering it doesn't look like contamination at all. I've spawned a jar in similar state and it is colonizing, it has been 3 days and I see some myc spots, it didn't smell anything but I know bacteria sometimes doesn't smell. Temps have been high lately, and along the colonization so that might've dried the grains.

I have several jars in the same state, most of which look to have stalled, or colonizing very slowly. I am not used to grains so I'm not sure this is common.

(Please, disregard the jars. I know they're not the best, but it's all I can afford for now)

I don't mind taking risks if there is any chance. But, looking at the colonization percentagem, are there any chances at all? Also, in case they're good, should I dunk them? Because they have uncolonized spots and all, should I use tap water?

Thanks in advance.

http://share.pho.to/4F3ZK



Edited by Anao (12/02/13 08:29 AM)


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Invisibledusttodust


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 491
Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19216398 - 12/02/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I highly doubt grains would dry out in properly made filter and normal temperatures. If your temperatures havent exceeded 77 you should be good.

Why is uncolonized grain bad?

1. Beacuse in most times it is not truly uncolonized. It is colonized by bacteria, which usually smells bad. You can recognize it by moisture on grain and biological barrier with mycelium. By mixing grains with bacteria with pasteurized substrate it will most likely be contaminated before fully colonized with myc.

2. If it truly is uncolonized, than by spawning it (in unsterile area) you risk that other contaminations will get on grain and contaminate the whole substrate (grains are very nutritious and many life forms colonize very fast on them. RR also covers grains when mixing them in substrate so that they dont dry out, because mycelium would get weak and other contamination could get a hold of it).

Im not really sure about your pictures and i dont see uncolonized spots very well. If you are certain that this is mycelium and not something else looking like mycelium, and if you are certain that there is no bacteria colonized in your jars, than spawn it.

Good luck!


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OfflineAnao
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19216417 - 12/02/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm one hundred percent sure the white spots are cubensis mycelium, but as you can see some grains are not really fully colonized. Few are cracked and I can clearly see mycelium coming from the inside, but for some reason, the outside is not colonized. On others, I can see partial colonization on grains, but it's not completely white. You can see this on the pics (first pic, upper layer there is a cracker corn with myc coming from inside but the "shell" is uncolonized).

Bacterial contamns should have made myc piss by now, it's been 30 days. They smell like healthy cubensis that's for sure, but I still don't know what to take from the partially colonized grains. My camera sucks, but it's the best I can do, maybe change lighting at best.

Also, for the most part, 77 is one of the lowest temperature it ever reached. It colonized on mid 80's. I'm considering the grains dried out but there is enough myc to win the bulk race (at least I hope so). It's too soon to say what is happening on the other bulk I've made with grains in similar situation, the colonization is fine for 3 days and everything is going alright but if any mold spores got into any uncolonized grains then it would be too soon to notice anything anyway. I'll probably know in a week or 2.

I have spawned them either way, just to know what to make of the others. I have done as most people recommend, mixed grains + bulk (Verm + Coir in this case, most coir), and covered any exposed grains. Hope it will turn fine.

I'd still like some more input from people who have grown in popcorn. Maybe this is just the way it colonizes popcorn/corn, or maybe it's something else.

Thanks.


Edited by Anao (12/02/13 09:29 AM)


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OfflineIcesyn
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19216455 - 12/02/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That slightly uncolonized chunk could easily be contam written. So I say wait at least a few days to a week just to be sure. It would be a shame if you decide to use infected spawn for your indoor grow. Cultivators use fully colonized spawn for a few reasons.

Less nutrients available for competing fungi
More colonized spawn means a faster recolonizing time (especially if dunked)
I believe the older the myc, the more ready it is to fruit. Has to do with nutrients 'n stuff.

These all make for a bountiful first flush.

And yes. Dunk in tap. Or mineral water. Anything clean that's not distilled(lacking vitamins and minerals).


Edited by Icesyn (12/02/13 09:41 AM)


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OfflineAnao
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Icesyn]
    #19216472 - 12/02/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Even in case they dried out (which is my best guess right now)?
Would it still be good for contams, but not good/wet enough for cubensis?

Anyway, I'll try to keep this updated. I'll post results in a couple of weeks, and see if there is any development on the other jars. Maybe I was a little too impatient and rushed this one, I'll sure find in a while.

Thanks.


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OfflineIcesyn
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19216484 - 12/02/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Some cultivators say they prefer to use grain slightly on the dry side. I don't contest with it but it's prof they're more than likely to pull through  :thumbup:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19216497 - 12/02/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I will start by saying that uncolonized grains are a contam vector, even dried out ones. That being said, I usually just deal with them by lightly tapping it banging the jar upside down on its lid. This should cause all the uncolonized grains to separate from the rest. Open jar, pitch those ones, then close jar back up, shake it up, smell, dunk and spawn. Usually works pretty good.


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OfflineIcesyn
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19216524 - 12/02/13 09:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I will start by saying that uncolonized grains are a contam vector, even dried out ones. That being said, I usually just deal with them by lightly tapping it banging the jar upside down on its lid. This should cause all the uncolonized grains to separate from the rest. Open jar, pitch those ones, then close jar back up, shake it up, smell, dunk and spawn. Usually works pretty good.



I would not suggest opening a jar that contains uncolonized grain for no reason other than g2g transfers or agar inoculations.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Icesyn]
    #19216554 - 12/02/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:lolwut:
If your spawning and you got a few dried out grains on top your just gonna pitch the jar, even if it smells good and the only reason the top couple grains didn't colonize was because they dried out? OP's don't really look that bad to me anyway. I dunno maybe I'm :wow:

OP feel free to disregard anything I say. But if those were mine and if they smelled alright, I'd spawn em.

Edit: I'm on my phone and sometimes its hard to see. I might change my mind when I get home and see your jars on my PC. But I still stand by my comment that if they smell okay and are not visibly contamed just dried out, that I would still give em a try.


Edited by Pastywhyte (12/02/13 10:55 AM)


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OfflineAnao
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19216788 - 12/02/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I thought about taking the uncolonized grains off and spawning only the fully colonized ones, but as you can see, it's not that simple.
They smell good, I'm convinced that the grains just dried out. But as you can see, they were under colonization when they dried, leaving it half complete. They're all a single spawn, meaning even the partially colonized grains won't fall or separate when I bump the jar, in this case is really hard to tell when a single grain is fully or partially colonized, when spawning they all look very alike.

I just spawned the entire jar. In case it goes fine then I know all the others are fine, in case not... Oh, well. I'll try again and again.

I'm pretty sure my filtering was incorrect and that lead to drying, because I have a single PP tupperware which is getting completely white and it has a much higher amount of condensation on it. I don't think sealing the jars again would do to keep humidity, still it's better than if it was contam'd, right? At least I got a chance.

It's a batch of like, 5 jars and the tupperware (not counting the 2 spawned ones). So, if at least one of them succeed enough for me to print, I'm fine with that. That's my main concern. Some look better than this one on my original post, still, it's hard to say what will happen. There is even a half pint one where all grains look partially colonized, but it looks pretty thick on the inside. I guess my chances are hit or miss.

I think I'll take the eight I've got so far from contamined bulks and ask them themselves if their mates got a chance. These are Australian, by the way.

Thanks for your attention!


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Invisibledusttodust


Registered: 11/26/12
Posts: 491
Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19216929 - 12/02/13 12:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

U keep repeatin yourself that grains dried and i dont belive you.

Did grains shrink? Do they look smaller than before? Grains contain water inside, not outside. They should be dry outside.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19216959 - 12/02/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anao said:





I think those are contaminated :frown:


--------------------

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You should take a look. :hehehe:


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19216971 - 12/02/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i think he's right:crazy:


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OfflineAnao
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: dusttodust]
    #19216991 - 12/02/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Every time I mentioned I thought they dried out, I said it was my opinion. I posted here to listen to other users' opinions, so that's fine, you can state all of yours.
If you take a better look at the pictures, the grains do look colonized on the inside. For some reason, that's not true for the outside. They are uncolonized on the outside, which seems to be dry.
There is no condensation, no metabolites, no sour/sweet or bacterial smell (which is very particular, I've smelled it before). I know it can be an inivisible, non-smelling bacteria, but I find that very unlikely.


I've spawned another jar in very similar state. Can someone tell me how long it should take before the monotub begins to smell, in case it's contaminated by bacteria? Can you usually take a flush, or print it (since I believe bacterial contaminants won't go to the print but IDK anything). Because so far it smells like cubensis and is colonizing like cubensis, but it has only been 3 days. I've spawned the one on my original post a few hours ago, so as I said we will find out soon if it was bacteria or not, or if the grains were too dried(?) to work and another contam got an edge.



It might as well just be contaminated, which is a shame. Thanks, anyway.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: Anao]
    #19217025 - 12/02/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

To my eyes, those jars have more than one kind of mycelium in them. Maybe some yeast too.

But that powdery looking mycelium is bad news for sure.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


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Offlinekrypto2000
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: cronicr]
    #19217035 - 12/02/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They just dry tome :shrug:. The one time I had grains that were too dry, my first time doing strait millet. They looked exactly like that. Spawned some and they got contaminated, g2g'd some and they were fine, and spawned some outside and got some mushies.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19217041 - 12/02/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Dry grains shrivel. Those don't look dry at all. They are nice and plump.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19217042 - 12/02/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Frank this is a little off topic but, if OP was in doubt about whether his jars were good or not, ie no smell, not excessively wet, no visible contamination, would it be worthwhile to shake one and see if it could recover. On even one jar as a diagnostic measure? Would it be possible for a contamed jar in such a scenario to recover? Curious about your opinion on this practice? I have heard a few opinions on thus but not from someone with your experience.

Quote:

[FrankHorrigan said:
To my eyes, those jars have more than one kind of mycelium in them. Maybe some yeast too.

But that powdery looking mycelium is bad news for sure.




Fuck I can't see that at all on my crappy phone, time for a new one for sure.


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: krypto2000]
    #19217045 - 12/02/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if it was too dry it wouldn't have colonized:shrug:
otherwise whats really too dry?


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Re: Are these too uncolonized to spawn? [Re: cronicr]
    #19217068 - 12/02/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I can't speak for popcorn cause don't don't use it but I i get dry rye berries on top they look like raisins.


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