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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Ever get the feeling 1
#19216160 - 12/02/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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that most subjects that humans deal with, in the sense of discussions or actions aimed at working them out or resolving them mostly act on the surface of the issue, ignoring the core of the matter and so purposely, however possibly unconsciously, obfuscating the matter so as not to ever resolve it. 
Just sayin
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Insidious
Stranger


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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander] 1
#19216216 - 12/02/13 07:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, getting to the core core of an issue usually reveals some ugly, uncomfortable truths or dilemmas that most people would rather pretend don't exist.. It's human nature to take the easy way out, the path of least resistance and it can be observed in many issues from relationships to politics....
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Grapefruit
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Insidious]
#19216271 - 12/02/13 08:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes, especially around political/social issues. Which I guess is why I'm not usually interested in politics. I think it's less that people don't want to resolve it but that they are afraid to explore the real reasons for the problems (life, themselves etc.).
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Repertoire89
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19216412 - 12/02/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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teknix
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander] 1
#19216440 - 12/02/13 09:30 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: that most subjects that humans deal with, in the sense of discussions or actions aimed at working them out or resolving them mostly act on the surface of the issue, ignoring the core of the matter and so purposely, however possibly unconsciously, obfuscating the matter so as not to ever resolve it. 
Just sayin
I guess it depends on if you are trying to protect yourself or not?
I think it could be related to an egoic self wanting to be right.
Protecting the image of yourself seems to be numero uno for the ego, because that image is the ego, so I wonder if it utilizes /feed off the same imbeded will to survive that humans do.
Edited by teknix (12/02/13 09:36 AM)
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teknix
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: teknix]
#19216480 - 12/02/13 09:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think The bigger the image the harder it has to work to protect itself. So it is probably those huge images that are more likely to obfusicate for the sake of preserving the size. In doing so it only get bigger, if it didn't do so it would shrink.
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Icelander
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: teknix]
#19216485 - 12/02/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah it's all ego shit. The why is up for debate and of course you know where I stand on the issue.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19216546 - 12/02/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I forget who said it, but some psychologist was once remarking about the most amazing thing he'd learned while being a psychologist. He mentioned how humans come seeking a truth of some kind, about themselves or something external, but the truth is the last thing that they'd want to hear. So they'll do everything to tip toe around it, not think about it, and create other problems.
It could be that the problems that people want to resolve are what give people meaning. If there was no problem or issue, would people still have meaning? I'm just throwing a guess out there.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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teknix
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: r72rock]
#19216555 - 12/02/13 10:14 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hmm, interesting thought...
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19216709 - 12/02/13 11:00 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think that with most people, when they think they got to the core, they are barely touching the surface
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DrugsRGood
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What if your ego is based on getting down to the real truth (i.e. the core of the problem)
Shouldn't these people be listened to?
Instead of someone who isn't able to get down to the truth because of his preconceived notions.
-------------------- Life is an adventure; not knowing what's ahead brings a great sense of anticipation; and meeting women is the reward.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: DrugsRGood]
#19216772 - 12/02/13 11:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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if the ego is based upon it, for sure you can't trust it. there is already a conflict of interest.
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Kickle
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: r72rock]
#19217950 - 12/02/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
r72rock said: I forget who said it, but some psychologist was once remarking about the most amazing thing he'd learned while being a psychologist. He mentioned how humans come seeking a truth of some kind, about themselves or something external, but the truth is the last thing that they'd want to hear. So they'll do everything to tip toe around it, not think about it, and create other problems.
It could be that the problems that people want to resolve are what give people meaning. If there was no problem or issue, would people still have meaning? I'm just throwing a guess out there.
I've found this to be mostly true. Depressed individuals tend to have some very realistic views of themselves and subsequently have a hard time finding meaning in their life. It's the illusionary self that seems to be full of meaning. The future self, the better self, the self that doesn't even exist and is in the clouds
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Kickle]
#19218024 - 12/02/13 04:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
I've found this to be mostly true. Depressed individuals tend to have some very realistic views of themselves and subsequently have a hard time finding meaning in their life. It's the illusionary self that seems to be full of meaning. The future self, the better self, the self that doesn't even exist and is in the clouds 
Could well be true for the majority of people, if you waste your life away there's little reason to be happy about it.
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Icelander
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Kickle]
#19218038 - 12/02/13 04:23 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I fully agree and as a lifelong depressed person can attest to it. There was a few years there in the middle when I had things going my way and the depression was minimal. I had lots of dreams that gave my life meaning. They were all unrealistic as it turned out and so over time the depression deepened until suicide seems like a very attractive choice and I don't do it because I lack the courage of my convictions. With age chronic pain issues haven't helped one bit. Realistically I know that there is no great healing ahead of me only further breakdown and decay. The future seems mostly empty now that I don't live under the illusion of my immortality and supernatural success in life.
I have my dogs, I have you guys and I have one very dear woman in my life, music and some drugs. Those make things bearable part of the time but my brain chemistry is just depressive no matter what anymore.
Sounds pretty grim right. It is very grim to actually be living it. I don't paint a pretty picture of the reality behind the persona of Master Icelander but there is no real point in lying to you all. Lying doesn't change it.
What's a poor boy to do? Joke has always been on me.
I wish I was one of those happy winners I hear about but that's not my fate. Not to say I haven't had some very awesome experiences in my life. I just wish they added up to something that fixed my mental state. I once had a therapist tell me that considering my childhood it's amazing that I'm mostly sane. Little does she know. 
And blah blah blah
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Kickle
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Assuming there is anything such as wasting life.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
I've found this to be mostly true. Depressed individuals tend to have some very realistic views of themselves and subsequently have a hard time finding meaning in their life. It's the illusionary self that seems to be full of meaning. The future self, the better self, the self that doesn't even exist and is in the clouds 
Could well be true for the majority of people, if you waste your life away there's little reason to be happy about it.
Waste your life? I wonder what that means? I've done things that people tell me are amazing and wonderful and they wish they had had the ability to do them but it doesn't make me feel great. Even when I was doing them there was always and underlying sadness in me.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Kickle]
#19218058 - 12/02/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: Assuming there is anything such as wasting life.
Its not so much an assumption as an arbitrary line drawn and suspended in my perception, the line isn't quite arbitrary or clear cut either.
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DirtyTomFlint
( ΰ²₯ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΩΰ²₯)




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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Insidious]
#19218060 - 12/02/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Insidious said: Yes, getting to the core core of an issue usually reveals some ugly, uncomfortable truths or dilemmas that most people would rather pretend don't exist.. It's human nature to take the easy way out, the path of least resistance and it can be observed in many issues from relationships to politics....
--------------------
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Kickle
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19218066 - 12/02/13 04:30 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I fully agree and as a lifelong depressed person can attest to it. There was a few years there in the middle when I had things going my way and the depression was minimal. I had lots of dreams that gave my life meaning. They were all unrealistic as it turned out and so over time the depression deepened until suicide seems like a very attractive choice and I don't do it because I lack the courage of my convictions. With age chronic pain issues haven't helped one bit. Realistically I know that there is no great healing ahead of me only further breakdown and decay. The future seems mostly empty now that I don't live under the illusion of my immortality and supernatural success in life.
I have my dogs, I have you guys and I have one very dear woman in my life, music and some drugs. Those make things bearable part of the time but my brain chemistry is just depressive no matter what anymore.
Sounds pretty grim right. It is very grim to actually be living it. I don't paint a pretty picture of the reality behind the persona of Master Icelander but there is no real point in lying to you all. Lying doesn't change it.
What's a poor boy to do? Joke has always been on me.
I wish I was one of those happy winners I hear about but that's not my fate. Not to say I haven't had some very awesome experiences in my life. I just wish they added up to something that fixed my mental state. I once had a therapist tell me that considering my childhood it's amazing that I'm mostly sane. Little does she know. 
And blah blah blah
Yeah it sucks man. I know I'm fairly balanced but it doesn't seem like it would take much to throw it off at any given point. I don't have much meaning in my life so I'm almost entirely dependent on beneficial circumstances. I've come to find that others are kinder towards me than I am to myself. Aging will likely be very unkind to me.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19218080 - 12/02/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Waste your life? I wonder what that means? I've done things that people tell me are amazing and wonderful and they wish they had had the ability to do them but it doesn't make me feel great. Even when I was doing them there was always and underlying sadness in me.
I suppose its worth saying that one can perform whatever kind of activities, live whatever kind of lifestyle and not be satisfied. "Wasting life away" refers more to the majority as I perceive it (all subjective speculation), most people it seems never really try to turn the corner.
I'm never completely satisfied either and consider much of my time to have been wasted, overall things are great but that core of death anxiety never disappears, and those days spent in misdirections don't reappear.
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Kickle]
#19218086 - 12/02/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Yeah it sucks man. I know I'm fairly balanced but it doesn't seem like it would take much to throw it off at any given point. I don't have much meaning in my life so I'm almost entirely dependent on beneficial circumstances. I've come to find that others are kinder towards me than I am to myself. Aging will likely be very unkind to me.
How old are you now?
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Kickle
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26
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Kickle]
#19218105 - 12/02/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well I'm 24, maybe 30 years from now the shroomery will still be up and we can post updates on our psychology. It would be interesting to hear a lot of these ethno-shaman-alien-Jesus guys coming back on and commenting in their old age
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Icelander
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Kickle]
#19218110 - 12/02/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Long road ahead. I wish you lots of good luck on it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19218123 - 12/02/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Long road ahead. I wish you lots of good luck on it.
Icelander is a sinner, his wishes bring only pain
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Kickle
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said: Well I'm 24, maybe 30 years from now the shroomery will still be up and we can post updates on our psychology. It would be interesting to hear a lot of these ethno-shaman-alien-Jesus guys coming back on and commenting in their old age
we'll be in a shroomery holodeck by then
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Kickle
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19218141 - 12/02/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Long road ahead. I wish you lots of good luck on it.
See others are kinder 
thanks
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Icelander
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Long road ahead. I wish you lots of good luck on it.
Icelander is a sinner, his wishes bring only pain

-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19218276 - 12/02/13 05:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: that most subjects that humans deal with, in the sense of discussions or actions aimed at working them out or resolving them mostly act on the surface of the issue, ignoring the core of the matter and so purposely, however possibly unconsciously, obfuscating the matter so as not to ever resolve it. 
Just sayin
I've brought up the diversionary nature of logic in various existential threads. Most resolution is desired through victory or defeat of ideas, and the primacy of characterizing experience through hierarchy is pervasive. My philosophy tends to look 'beyond' that without needing mysticism to back anything up. Acceptance is really just a lack of concern.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "Youβre not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." βAyishat Akanbi
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Icelander
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Rahz]
#19218459 - 12/02/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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That was quite a mouthful. I have no idea what you just said.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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teknix
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Kickle said:
I've found this to be mostly true. Depressed individuals tend to have some very realistic views of themselves and subsequently have a hard time finding meaning in their life. It's the illusionary self that seems to be full of meaning. The future self, the better self, the self that doesn't even exist and is in the clouds 
Could well be true for the majority of people, if you waste your life away there's little reason to be happy about it.
Maybe your life is wasted only if you consider it as wasted.
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Icelander]
#19218537 - 12/02/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm saying people would rather play the game and win or loose than not play at all. The philosophical mind sees the games, but they get played all the same and that logic is ultimately a futile endeavor which makes it especially ridiculous in judging existential questions.
English mang.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "Youβre not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." βAyishat Akanbi
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: teknix]
#19219233 - 12/02/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
Maybe your life is wasted only if you consider it as wasted.
I tend to have opinions about others
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amadahugnkiss
Stranger


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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: teknix]
#19219255 - 12/02/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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[gradient:#F00C85,#29CDFF]I feel as Humans we find a need to try and deal with other peoples problems. To not have to deal with the core issues with self. Core problems all ways starts with self. So why not but in on others lives. To not deal with the core issues.[/gradient]
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Icelander
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Rahz]
#19219270 - 12/02/13 08:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: I'm saying people would rather play the game and win or loose than not play at all. The philosophical mind sees the games, but they get played all the same and that logic is ultimately a futile endeavor which makes it especially ridiculous in judging existential questions.
English mang. 
oh
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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r72rock
Maybe so. Maybe not.




Registered: 01/06/09
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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Rahz]
#19219272 - 12/02/13 08:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: I've brought up the diversionary nature of logic in various existential threads. Most resolution is desired through victory or defeat of ideas, and the primacy of characterizing experience through hierarchy is pervasive. My philosophy tends to look 'beyond' that without needing mysticism to back anything up. Acceptance is really just a lack of concern.
I like this. Thanks for sharing.
-------------------- Current favorite candy: Peanut Butter Kisses
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teknix
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
teknix said:
Maybe your life is wasted only if you consider it as wasted.
I tend to have opinions about others
Do you mean that you judge others based on your personal beliefs or opinions of what constitutes a worthwhile life?
Your opinion of another's life doesn't necessarily effect the others perception of their life.
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: teknix]
#19219295 - 12/02/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
teknix said:
Maybe your life is wasted only if you consider it as wasted.
I tend to have opinions about others
You mean you judge other based on your personal beliefs of what constitutes a worthwhile life?
Why do you want to judge me for that?

Your opinion of another's life doesn't necessarily effect the others perception of their life.
Don't care.
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teknix
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I'm not.
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deCypher



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Re: Ever get the feeling [Re: Kickle]
#19222062 - 12/03/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said: Well I'm 24, maybe 30 years from now the shroomery will still be up and we can post updates on our psychology. It would be interesting to hear a lot of these ethno-shaman-alien-Jesus guys coming back on and commenting in their old age
we'll be in a shroomery holodeck by then
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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