Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method
    #19215745 - 12/02/13 02:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/giveup/Give%20Up-cleaned%20up%20by%20Roshan%20Naik-48k.mp3



I saw himm talked about in another thread and decided to re-investigate his teachings. When I listened to this talk, I became very interested in what he had to say about spiritual practices and spiritual experiences. I found myself being lead in this direction already, from my study of the Eastern Orthodox Christian fathers who advise rejecting anything that stems from the imagination and Buddhist teachings on emptiness. Ramana Maharshi also mentions this in his teachings although he did endorse many different traditional spiritual techniques.

Basically the idea is that we want to be at peace with ourselves and we are trying to achieve that state through some mental effort. But peace consists only in lack of mental effort. It cannot be achieved through effort. Nor can we try to give up effort, because that is effort, nor can we try not to try because that also is effort. So we are stuck in this impossible situation and this is essentially where every single person in the world who is following any religion or spiritual path is stuck. In fact, all you arrogant people on the shroomery who think you are so much more spiritually advanced than those "fundamentalist Christians" you whine about, you are actually stuck in the exact same place (sorry, had to throw that in). You may think you are more advanced because you have a far more advanced set of concepts with which you relate to reality, but you are still being trapped by thoughts and concepts just like a mentally retarded person. In fact a mentally retarded person could in a sense be closer to the truth than you because they havent created such a complex web of concepts. Often the more advanced concepts are, the more difficult it is to untangle them.


Any time there is a goal, whether that goal is ultimate reality, enlightenment, knowledge of God, bliss, etc, that goal does not exist because the goal is something you are imagining (reality is what's already there) and the very act of imagining that goal prevents you from seeing clrearly what is already there.

So this means the only purpose that all religions and spiritual paths truly serve is to gradually drive you insane by the fact that they do not work. Note I am not saying that prayer and meditation techniques do not have effects, they absolutely do, it is possible to have spiritual experiences, it is possible to talk to God, etc, the thing is they never lead to the goal as promised. They never, ever lead to liberation, enlightenment, gnoses, salvation, knowledge of God, peace, bliss, etc. All they do is make you circle around some imaginary goal until you eventually go crazy and give up, thus finally settling into the peace of the present moment. That is how they work.


Edited by Deviate (12/02/13 02:49 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Deviate]
    #19215857 - 12/02/13 04:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I couldn't do the 3 hour talk but i listened to a few minutes, you brought up the most important message though, effortlessness

I find that ultimately this is a path of understanding, of wisdom, rather than the contrivance of effort

If you truly understand that absolutely nothing you think of can bring you to yourself then that is great, it's enough

I like these verses by Ramana Maharshi that deal with this topic

The fruit of action passes
But action leaves behind
Seed of further action
Leading to an endless ocean of action
Not at all to liberation

Better than viewing Him as other
Indeed the noblest attitude of all,
Is the hold Him as the 'I' within
The very 'I'

You yourself impose limitations on your true nature of infinite being,
and then weep that you are but a finite creature.
Then you take up this or that spiritual practice to transcend the non-
existent limitations. But if your spiritual practice itself assumes the
existence of the limitations, how can it help you to transcend them?
Hence I say know that you are really the infinite pure being, the Self.
You are always that Self and nothing but that Self.


--------------------


Edited by Chronic7 (12/02/13 04:29 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Chronic7]
    #19215932 - 12/02/13 05:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

imagine peace

john lennon said it well

I appreciate everything I have, then I got peace
and accept what I got and see
forgive people etc.

love is all you need, peace is love

help others, see the good in people and everything etc.
don't limit your peace to yourself, appreciate nature and love/respect others and the planet

don't worry, that's peace

when you feel love, nothing can take that away from you

houseplants,pets,guitar,nature everyday , that is peace too


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Deviate]
    #19215995 - 12/02/13 05:57 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

So this means the only purpose that all religions and spiritual paths truly serve is to gradually drive you insane by the fact that they do not work.

True imo, the down side being that by doing that it may create more human suffering than it's worth.  Not everyone makes it through the maze of religious belief to the other side. In fact almost no one.  But maybe there's no way around that. :sad:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Icelander]
    #19216236 - 12/02/13 07:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

It is said that only one in a million pursue spiritual practice to completion. Those really aren't very good odds. That's why it can suck so much being a spiritual seeker sometimes. You struggle and you struggle and you struggle and every other spiritual seeker you know deals with the same struggle and none of you ever seem to get enlightenment. This is what leads some people to become skeptics and conclude that enlightenment is a myth. The problem with the idea that enlightenment is a myth for me, is that what does that leave us with? My stupid, scattered delusional thoughts being real then? That certainly can't be. I know that my mind free from thought is more accurate than my mind when it is clouded by a maze of thoughts which I can clearly see are quite delusional. I just cannot accept a life based on imaginary goals created by my delusional thoughts. Of course, in an ironic way that is exactly what I am doing in pursuing enlightenment, but being aware that I am doing it, I am simply not able to pursue some other goal, like telling myself something like "if you get married and have a kid, then you will be happy". I know that isn't true. If I can't be happy now, today, then it is stupid to assume that fullfilling some self created goal is going to change that in a real, enduring way.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Deviate]
    #19216380 - 12/02/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I hear you loud and clear. We certainly are between a rock and a hard place.  According to Ernest Becker (Denial of Death) we absolutely must have a belief system of some sort to buffer certain truths about existence that psychologically we are not capable of handling without extreme anxiety.  Our beliefs about this and that act as a buffer or cushion or shield and get us out of bed each day to face the shit we seem willing to go through just to be alive.  (rock and hard place). 

The type of beliefs you hold determine how hard or easy and how beneficial or detrimental our existence becomes for ourselves and those we interact with on any level. 

I personally have no quarrel with religion as long as it doesn't negatively affect me or others. This is often not the case. There are very few that are religiously benign, imo due to anxieties around their ability to believe what they claim to believe.  Many people cannot carry on with a belief unless they can quell any others who do not share that belief.  It creates too much anxiety provoking cognitive dissonance for them to be able to continue with their belief system.
So they try to force or coerce others into believing or otherwise do away with them.  This imo is evil but they cannot help it due to their anxiety. 

And so it goes.  Ultimately I believe we cannot know what life is all about.  This creates tons of anxiety in me.  Much of my posting here is to get others to believe as I do or affirm my beliefs and make me feel accepted into some sort of group that I can believe are "right" and so reduce my anxiety.  However there is another  part of me that wants to face the unknown head on.  It's, imo, the really healthy part of my personality or self but it is also the weakest part of that personality structure.  It rarely can function without anxiety and is buffeted by that anxiety to the point that it often wants out of existence completely. This makes me very sad indeed. More than I can express in words.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Deviate]
    #19216385 - 12/02/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
This is what leads some people to become skeptics and conclude that enlightenment is a myth. The problem with the idea that enlightenment is a myth for me, is that what does that leave us with?




it can be good to have the idea of enlightenment at first, like you said to keep you focused on becoming free from the maze of thoughts, but ultimately in the search for truth we must be left with nothing, as everything is ultimately a myth, including the idea of enlightenment, the term itself is associated with somebody becoming enlightened when there is nobody there to become anything in the first place, hence it all being a myth

if we stop touching things & leave it all alone
then we are touched by what can never leave us

the spiritual path can seem like a right bitch to the mind, but that's also why its infinitely amazing, because the mind can't get it, we are what we're seeking
its a curse in the sense that our identities have been trained to get things we want, so when we want what we can't ever get, it's frustrating
yet its an absolute gift in the sense that you are it, and you are appearing as a human that can realize it, how much greater could it get!?

by the way, when you said eastern orthodox christians that advise 'rejecting anything from imagination' can you recommend anything to read?
im aware that what i just asked is a contradiction in itself :smile:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Icelander]
    #19216483 - 12/02/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
And so it goes.  Ultimately I believe we cannot know what life is all about.  This creates tons of anxiety in me.  Much of my posting here is to get others to believe as I do or affirm my beliefs and make me feel accepted into some sort of group that I can believe are "right" and so reduce my anxiety.  However there is another  part of me that wants to face the unknown head on.  It's, imo, the really healthy part of my personality or self but it is also the weakest part of that personality structure.  It rarely can function without anxiety and is buffeted by that anxiety to the point that it often wants out of existence completely. This makes me very sad indeed. More than I can express in words.




ultimately it is unknowable, but you can know that you are that unknown
the ultimate is unknowable which means deep inside me i am that unknowableness
i can know my body, thoughts, feelings etc, but i am unknown!

sorry if im pointing this out & it creates anxiety, i've experienced myself how viewing the universe as unknown can cause an existential panic, but when i see myself as the unknown i find it releases anxiety, when it's internalized it's different

it's really being totally honest with yourself, what i am is fully here yet totally unknown, it can never be defined, yet it is, i am
philosophers & sages have called it self knowledge but its not knowing anything, it's a bit like a regression into the unknown, into yourself


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Chronic7]
    #19216513 - 12/02/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

That doesn't work the same way for me as it does for you. That's something I've learned over time. Everyone deals with stuff differently and one size does not fit all.  I'm very glad it works so well for you however. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Icelander]
    #19216572 - 12/02/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That doesn't work the same way for me




You said there is a part of you that wants to face the unknown headon, so it's not an impossibility, especially when you are the unknown


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Chronic7]
    #19216740 - 12/02/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Frankly I don't have a clue what you're talking about.  I just tried to explain to you that everyone does this in their own way. And also frankly I don't know and don't know that you know what facing the unknown even means.  It might well be an impossibility.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleChronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Icelander]
    #19216912 - 12/02/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

all i meant is that we are the unknown so facing it is facing oneself, i thought id made that clear but maybe not


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Chronic7]
    #19217055 - 12/02/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ok  I've been doing that all along.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineall this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Deviate]
    #19217704 - 12/02/13 03:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

U.G. Krishnamurti (as I understand him) believed that "enlightenment" is a myth because it is predicated on the notion that you are "here" and enlightenment is "there."  That to attain enlightenment, you must travel from A to B.  But according to Krishnamurti, there is no "here" vs. "there."  That construct is a fiction.  A myth.  There is only "here."

Institutional religion (with a few notable exceptions) assumes a "here" and a "there."  Jesus died for our sins, we are told, to gain us access to "there" -- Godliness, understanding, Heaven, whatever.  The mythology differs according to Christian sect.

If it works for you, Deviate, all power to you, buddy.

As long as you and I do as little harm as is humanly possible in the world, all is okay.  :wink:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: all this beauty]
    #19218357 - 12/02/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

there is only Now :-)

attaining enlightenment is not possible, but you can know yourself a bit
knowing yourself fully isnt possible either it seems, there can never be put thoughts on it, thoughts are imperfect

but I feel I know myself well now

nobody can tell you who you are, except you can ask yourself

I often see books trying to tell people who they are, that I dont understand
but maybe if ready people may remember, just like if you get "the power of now" i.e.
if you get the book at the right time, you may know from the title what you need to know :-)

working towards enlightenment is not possible I think, because that is the brain wanting something
instead meditate and release all those wantings

the self knows what it wants to change


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineall this beauty
Stranger
Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 779
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: lessismore]
    #19218527 - 12/02/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mio said:
working towards enlightenment is not possible I think, because that is the brain wanting something
instead meditate and release all those wantings



There are many traps awaiting the seeker, but the greatest of these, I think, is attachment to the notion that we are not, in the current moment, in the here/now, already perfect as we are.

U.G. Krishnamurti made the point, as did many before him.

It's an extremely fine and subtle point.

We are perfect as we are.  Even in our cravings.  Even in our lusts.  Even in our ignorance.

So, there is a complete surrender -- a total abandonment -- of the desire to be other than what we already are, and with this surrender comes a peace and serenity beyond words.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMahananda


Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 117
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Deviate]
    #19218812 - 12/02/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
http://www.ugkrishnamurti.org/giveup/Give%20Up-cleaned%20up%20by%20Roshan%20Naik-48k.mp3



I saw himm talked about in another thread and decided to re-investigate his teachings. When I listened to this talk, I became very interested in what he had to say about spiritual practices and spiritual experiences. I found myself being lead in this direction already, from my study of the Eastern Orthodox Christian fathers who advise rejecting anything that stems from the imagination and Buddhist teachings on emptiness. Ramana Maharshi also mentions this in his teachings although he did endorse many different traditional spiritual techniques.

Basically the idea is that we want to be at peace with ourselves and we are trying to achieve that state through some mental effort. But peace consists only in lack of mental effort. It cannot be achieved through effort. Nor can we try to give up effort, because that is effort, nor can we try not to try because that also is effort. So we are stuck in this impossible situation and this is essentially where every single person in the world who is following any religion or spiritual path is stuck. In fact, all you arrogant people on the shroomery who think you are so much more spiritually advanced than those "fundamentalist Christians" you whine about, you are actually stuck in the exact same place (sorry, had to throw that in). You may think you are more advanced because you have a far more advanced set of concepts with which you relate to reality, but you are still being trapped by thoughts and concepts just like a mentally retarded person. In fact a mentally retarded person could in a sense be closer to the truth than you because they havent created such a complex web of concepts. Often the more advanced concepts are, the more difficult it is to untangle them.


Any time there is a goal, whether that goal is ultimate reality, enlightenment, knowledge of God, bliss, etc, that goal does not exist because the goal is something you are imagining (reality is what's already there) and the very act of imagining that goal prevents you from seeing clrearly what is already there.

So this means the only purpose that all religions and spiritual paths truly serve is to gradually drive you insane by the fact that they do not work. Note I am not saying that prayer and meditation techniques do not have effects, they absolutely do, it is possible to have spiritual experiences, it is possible to talk to God, etc, the thing is they never lead to the goal as promised. They never, ever lead to liberation, enlightenment, gnoses, salvation, knowledge of God, peace, bliss, etc. All they do is make you circle around some imaginary goal until you eventually go crazy and give up, thus finally settling into the peace of the present moment. That is how they work.




This reminds me of a snippet of dialogue from Ramana and a disciple (one of many along similar lines):

D.: Have you reached the goal?
M.: The goal cannot be anything apart from the Self nor can it be something to be gained afresh. If that were so, such goal cannot be abiding and permanent. What appears anew will also disappear. The goal must be eternal and within. Find it within yourself.

As I mentioned in a separate thread, my own experience of sadhana has been consistent with what you describe above, with such preliminaries as meditation serving not so much as a directional effort toward a goal (e.g., asamprajnata samadhi) but rather as a preparatory to insight of a fundamentally different nature.  I don't know that all paths can be characterized in that manner, however: I'm not sure self inquiry, as envisaged by Ramana, wouldn't be a direct path to insight, and Patanjali's own view, both as to the yoga of dispassion and as to Kriya yoga (or to bhakti as an alternative to either of these) was that the method itself led to liberation, a state fundamentally different from the general conscious state of the ordinary person in which the purusha, a self existent substance, has been disentangled from prakriti altogether (so much so that one of the classical commentators postulated that a jivanmukti would need to deposit a seed of karma in order to return to ordinary experience).


--------------------
Come, come, whoever you are.
Wanderer, worshiper, lover of living, it doesn't matter
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come even if you have broken your vow a thousand times,
Come, yet again, come, come


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Icelander]
    #19219348 - 12/02/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I hear you loud and clear. We certainly are between a rock and a hard place.  According to Ernest Becker (Denial of Death) we absolutely must have a belief system of some sort to buffer certain truths about existence that psychologically we are not capable of handling without extreme anxiety.  Our beliefs about this and that act as a buffer or cushion or shield and get us out of bed each day to face the shit we seem willing to go through just to be alive.  (rock and hard place).




I agree, we filter reality through our belief system because we can't handle it. The idea behind spirituality is however, that reality is not inherently bad, so this filtering we are constantly doing to protect ourself is a result of us having accepted a view of reality that is out of accordance with actual reality rather than reality itself being something horrible that we absolutely must shield ourselves from. 

U.G. Kishnamurti talks in his lecture about how society imposes on us the idea that we are not alright as we are, that we must do or achieve something special (whether its a career, marriage or enlightenment) before we can feel at peace with ourselves and this creates a tremendous thought current that draws us away from our own nature.



Quote:


And so it goes.  Ultimately I believe we cannot know what life is all about.  This creates tons of anxiety in me.  Much of my posting here is to get others to believe as I do or affirm my beliefs and make me feel accepted into some sort of group that I can believe are "right" and so reduce my anxiety.  However there is another  part of me that wants to face the unknown head on.  It's, imo, the really healthy part of my personality or self but it is also the weakest part of that personality structure.  It rarely can function without anxiety and is buffeted by that anxiety to the point that it often wants out of existence completely. This makes me very sad indeed. More than I can express in words.




Just reading this made me feel a very deep sadness. I can relate to exactly what you are saying. I feel this very strongly too. I feel like within me there is a very great force and yet somehow I am too afraid to let this force take control and so I endlessly circle around it.


Edited by Deviate (12/02/13 08:45 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Deviate]
    #19219414 - 12/02/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No matter how much we may disagree on there are some very core issues we do agree on.  I so often forget that. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Interesting talk by U.G Krishnamurti for anyone pursuing enlightenment by any method [Re: Chronic7]
    #19219417 - 12/02/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The Chronic said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
This is what leads some people to become skeptics and conclude that enlightenment is a myth. The problem with the idea that enlightenment is a myth for me, is that what does that leave us with?




it can be good to have the idea of enlightenment at first, like you said to keep you focused on becoming free from the maze of thoughts, but ultimately in the search for truth we must be left with nothing, as everything is ultimately a myth, including the idea of enlightenment, the term itself is associated with somebody becoming enlightened when there is nobody there to become anything in the first place, hence it all being a myth

if we stop touching things & leave it all alone
then we are touched by what can never leave us

the spiritual path can seem like a right bitch to the mind, but that's also why its infinitely amazing, because the mind can't get it, we are what we're seeking
its a curse in the sense that our identities have been trained to get things we want, so when we want what we can't ever get, it's frustrating
yet its an absolute gift in the sense that you are it, and you are appearing as a human that can realize it, how much greater could it get!?

by the way, when you said eastern orthodox christians that advise 'rejecting anything from imagination' can you recommend anything to read?
im aware that what i just asked is a contradiction in itself :smile:




The spiritual path is amazing but sometimes it is downright frustrating and depressing.

Regarding Orthodox readings there the Philokalia which is a collection of works on the contemplative life dating from the 4th to 15th centuries and I will also recommend this blog http://livingorthodoxfaith.blogspot.com/ especially if you prefer something more modern.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* On your path to enlightenment...
( 1 2 all )
ShroomismM 12,341 34 10/15/22 10:25 PM
by Buster_Brown
* .
( 1 2 all )
klonokingpin 4,686 20 12/12/05 10:40 AM
by Moonshoe
* An Intimate Biography of a 20th Century Mystic exclusive58 1,194 2 10/04/09 04:43 PM
by BrainChemistry
* Psychological and metaphysical aspects of Music
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Blastrid 31,916 107 12/08/16 01:45 AM
by Fractaliopsybe
* So, I guess I'm Christian now...
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
Silversoul 19,058 131 01/02/10 11:10 PM
by andrewss
* Alien/Human Relations v2.0
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Anonymous 23,664 65 12/23/22 02:19 AM
by doolhoofd
* Dream Thread
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 all )
ShroomismM 49,343 246 11/08/07 05:30 PM
by gbeatle
* Mayan Galactic Signature DB.....
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
vampirism 39,228 113 04/21/05 04:06 AM
by emptywisdom

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, DividedQuantum
9,058 topic views. 1 members, 6 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.