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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
How to avoid the coming military draft...
    #1921415 - 09/16/03 01:56 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

"The draft is not simply an academic interest. There is not enough military manpower to sustain the commitments the President has already undertaken. We constantly hear that our troops are "stretched too thin." To assist the United States, both the President and Secretary of State have made serious requests for significant military manpower contributions from other nations. These requests have largely fallen on deaf ears. The President has repeatedly stated he will not "back down" meaning, we must assume, that the military forces will continue to be "thinly stretched." Where will they find relief? It appears they are looking at young Americans who are free to volunteer for military duty, but in good conscience, choose not to do so."

The preceding quote is from an article I ran across which is quite informative, offering many suggestions and links. I highly recommend that anyone who is of draft age or will be coming of draft age to read it, take notes and prepare...

Read the full article here.


All rise and salute the American Ceasar, Heil Bush!


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1921419 - 09/16/03 01:58 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

So when did you start believing all the same crap Learyfan does? There is not going to be a draft anytime in the forseeable future.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1921433 - 09/16/03 02:05 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Where do you think the U.S. government will get the troops it needs?

Now, if you are of draft age and you want to be cannon fodder to advance the objectives of the military industrial complex and the Jewish and fundamentalist Christian lobbies, that is your choice. If the draft comes back, I would like those who choose life to have the best information and resources available. This post is for them.


--------------------
"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1921450 - 09/16/03 02:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

That is all well and good. The Pentagon has said repeatedly that the last thing they want is a draft. I did not realize you bought into this whole thing that is all.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1921485 - 09/16/03 02:21 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shakta said:
That is all well and good. The Pentagon has said repeatedly that the last thing they want is a draft. I did not realize you bought into this whole thing that is all. 



Well, if the Pentagon says it, it must be true. :rolleyes:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEdame
gone

Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1921504 - 09/16/03 02:25 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I read an article somewhere recently that said the US govt. were looking towards the immigrant Latino population for their recruitment needs by using Greencards as enticements.


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Edame]
    #1921533 - 09/16/03 02:34 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Actually we already do that. You don't have to be a citizen to join, but you will be after your service is done.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1921746 - 09/16/03 03:59 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Now there's an interesting idea. Who could object to someone becoming a citizen by doing military service and risking life and limb for his adopted country? How much more sincere a demonstration of commitment could one reasonably ask for?

I will have to find the time to think this through a lot more thoroughly, but my first take on it is that is way smarter than most hare-brained government proposals we see nowadays.

pinky


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Phred]
    #1921764 - 09/16/03 04:09 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Another aspect to this debate is why our military is stretched so thin. We have forces in over 50 countries. Why not pull them out of places like Kosovo if countries like France don't want to help in Iraq?


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Anonymous

Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1921788 - 09/16/03 04:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

i think less than 50% of our armed forces are stationed abroad, but i may be wrong.


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InvisiblePsiloKitten
Ganja Goddess

Registered: 02/13/99
Posts: 1,617
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1922022 - 09/16/03 05:40 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Im assuming you know that the legislation is already on the table and has been since a couple months after 9 -11.

HR 3598


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: PsiloKitten]
    #1922058 - 09/16/03 05:54 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Do you see it passing anytime soon? I don't.


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Phred]
    #1922280 - 09/16/03 06:50 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

> Who could object to someone becoming a citizen by doing military
> service and risking life and limb for his adopted country?

I object.  Why is military service the only way to serve your country?  There are endless ways to contribute. 

There goes Stephen Hawking's citizenship. :rolleyes:


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1922282 - 09/16/03 06:51 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


Another aspect to this debate is why our military is stretched so thin. We have forces in over 50 countries. Why not pull them out of places like Kosovo if countries like France don't want to help in Iraq?




Easy, you see, those troops in Kosovo (KFOR) are a NATO-led international force under a UN-mandate.
Thats the same reason why there are international troops in Afghanistan, various countries in Africa and so on. They are internationally approved to be there, foreign forces (us forces) in iraq however aren't.
Iraq is US-led without a UN mandate, so why would France need to contribute troops to Iraq?
Bush is only seeking the benefits of an UN mandate, namely the costs and dirty jobs (peacekeeping) being paid and done by other countries without giving military control away or having met the requests of the other countries (for example giving the political power to Iraqis as asked by France)


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"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (09/16/03 06:55 PM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: pattern]
    #1922415 - 09/16/03 07:29 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

pattern writes:

Why is military service the only way to serve your country?

Where did I say it was the only way? But it is undeniably one of the most unpleasant, low-paying, and potentially fatal ways.

My point is that I see (at this time -- as I pointed out already I do want to mull this over for a while) no rational objection to making one of the rewards for voluntarily assuming such a duty the granting of citizenship.

Before you jump all over me and claim that I say this is the only way for an immigrant to obtain citizenship, let me say that is merely another option one may choose to take on the path to obtaining citizenship. Don't want to join the Marines? No problem -- continue fulfilling the long-established existing requirements for citizenship and you will eventually get there.

pinky


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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Kinky sex makes the world go round [Re: Autonomous]
    #1923015 - 09/16/03 10:01 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Get rid of practically every loafer off the dole queue....

"Kinky Sex Makes The World Go 'Round" Dead Kennedys 1987

Greetings:This is the Secretary of War at the State Department
of the United States
We have a problem.
The companies want something done about this sluggish
world economic situation
Profits have been running a little thin lately
and we need to stimulate some growth
Now we know
there's an alarmingly high number of young people roaming
around in your country with nothing to do but stir up trouble
for the police and damage private property.
It doesn't look like they'll ever get a job
It's about time we did something constructive with these people
We've got thousands of 'em here too. They're crawling all over
The companies think it's time we all sit down, have a serious get-together-
And start another war
The President?
He loves the idea! All those missiles streaming overhead to and fro
Napalm
People running down the road, skin on fire
The Soviets seem up for it:
The Kremlin's been itching for the real thing for years.
Hell, Afghanistan's no fun
So whadya say?
We don't even have to win this war.
We just want to cut down on some of this excess population
Now look. Just start up a draft; draft as many of those people as you can.
We'll call up every last youngster we can get our hands on,
hand 'em some speed, give 'em an hour or two to learn how to use
an automatic rifle and send 'em on their way
Libya? El Salvador? How 'bout Northern Ireland?
Or a "moderately repressive regime" in South America?
We'll just cook up a good Soviet threat story
in the Middle East-we need that oil
We had Libya all ready to go and Colonel Khadafy's hit squad
didn't even show up. I tell ya
That man is unreliable.
The Kremlin had their fingers on the button just like we did for that one
Now just think for a minute-We can make this war so big-so BIG
The more people we kill in this war, the more the economy will prosper
We can get rid of practically everybody on your dole queue if we plan this right.
Take every loafer on welfare right off our computer rolls
Now don't worry about demonstrations-just pump up your drug supply.
So many people have hooked themselves on heroin
and amphetamines since we took over, it's just like Vietnam.
We had everybody so busy with LSD they never got too strong.
Kept the war functioning just fine
It's easy.
We've got our college kids so interested in beer
they don't even care if we start manufacturing germ bombs again.
Put a nuclear stockpile in their back yard,
they wouldn't even know what it looked like
So how 'bout it? Look-War is money.
The arms manufacturers tell me unless
we get our bomb factories up to full production
the whole economy is going to collapse
The Soviets are in the same boat.
We all agree the time has come for the big one, so whadya say?!?
That's excellent. We knew you'd agree
The companies will be very pleased.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
Re: Kinky sex makes the world go round [Re: enotake2]
    #1923901 - 09/17/03 02:22 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

LOL...that song brings back some memories.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 2 days
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Phred]
    #1923951 - 09/17/03 02:39 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pinksharkmark said:
pattern writes:
Before you jump all over me and claim that I say this is the only way for an immigrant to obtain citizenship, let me say that is merely another option one may choose to take on the path to obtaining citizenship. Don't want to join the Marines? No problem -- continue fulfilling the long-established existing requirements for citizenship and you will eventually get there.




Point accepted, I thought you were getting Heinlein on me, aka Starship Troopers. Perhaps immigrants could earn a gauranteed citizenship this way.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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Offlineenotake2
Stop Bush's war
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Registered: 01/30/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: pattern]
    #1923961 - 09/17/03 02:41 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah. I just listened to it again the other day. It has amazing relevance to today's situation considering it was written 16 years ago.


--------------------
Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Minister to the Damned
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,775
Loc: space
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: pattern]
    #1923963 - 09/17/03 02:42 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I think, if the American Army drafted me... it would be a tactical mistake to say the least....


--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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Offlinepattern
multiplayer

Registered: 07/19/02
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: enotake2]
    #1923977 - 09/17/03 02:47 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I love Starship Troopers (the movie even), if you imagine the bugs as the terrorists/Iraqis, and the humans as the Americans/British, its got some amazing similarities to the Iraq War.

Its cheesy as hell but still funny to watch.


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Dava]
    #1924502 - 09/17/03 09:24 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
Easy, you see, those troops in Kosovo (KFOR) are a NATO-led international force under a UN-mandate.




We went into Kosovo without UN approval initially.

Quote:

Thats the same reason why there are international troops in Afghanistan, various countries in Africa and so on. They are internationally approved to be there, foreign forces (us forces) in iraq however aren't.




Duh. I know this.

Quote:

Iraq is US-led without a UN mandate, so why would France need to contribute troops to Iraq?




I never said France needed to send troops. I do think if they want us to help them in places like Africa, they should quit being a roadblock for other countries to help us in Iraq.

Quote:

Bush is only seeking the benefits of an UN mandate, namely the costs and dirty jobs (peacekeeping) being paid and done by other countries without giving military control away or having met the requests of the other countries (for example giving the political power to Iraqis as asked by France)




France is pretty much the only veto weilding country that is against the new resolution. The French are not asking for military control, they want political control. The also lied when they said the US resolution does not do anything to give the power to the Iraqi people. It clearly states that the timeline should be provided by the Iraqi governing council. If passed they will need to put forward a timeline for drafting their constitution, and setting up elections as well as the rest of the government infrastructure. France on the other hand says that we should give the Iraqis control tomorrow basically. This argument from them is assinine to say the least. The infrastructure just is not there yet. So basically, we want the Iraqis to give us a timeline, while the French want to impose a dreamworld timeline.


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OfflineLearyfanS
It's the psychedelic movement!
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Re: Kinky sex makes the world go round [Re: enotake2]
    #1926353 - 09/17/03 09:15 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I love that song. Biafra was off about the LSD thing. He believed that the government wanted LSD to get out there because it would keep the people weak. I think LSD had the opposite effect. It's the CIA's "fault" that LSD got out, but once it was out it turned into a problem for them.





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--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People



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Anonymous

Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1926571 - 09/17/03 10:26 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I'm lucky. I'm not allowed to be in the military because I have a schizo-affective disorder.  :smile:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
Minister to the Damned
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,775
Loc: space
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: ]
    #1926640 - 09/17/03 10:43 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

He believed that the government wanted LSD to get out there because it would keep the people weak. I think LSD had the opposite effect. It's the CIA's "fault" that LSD got out, but once it was out it turned into a problem for them.




I always thought it was a little of both. The CIA origionally intended to use LSD as urban pacification and it served its purpose well. Confusion. Discreditation. Total chaos in the peace movement.

But then it got out of hand. LSD became more than a recreational drug. I'm sure I dont have to give you a lecture on its potential, Learyfan. Obviously, the CIA did not want us to have it, which is why it is one of the most persecuted drugs today, and all the distribution has been dismantled and the ingredients are harder to get than explosives.

Obviously there are more profitable and mentally debilitating drugs out there. Coke. Heroin. Ecstacy for the kiddies.

any way, just my lamebrained opinion



--------------------
Deep in the heart of Central Texas
lurks a Doktor
SM tool
Native Dallas brick-chopper...


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: ]
    #1926688 - 09/17/03 10:55 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


France is pretty much the only veto weilding country that is against the new resolution.




Not true. Russia and China also made some comments about the resolution and how it needs a proper 'tuning' before they ll approve it. So that makes 3 out of 5 against it.
Quote:


I never said France needed to send troops. I do think if they want us to help them in places like Africa, they should quit being a roadblock for other countries to help us in Iraq.




France doesnt run his own wars in Africa, they are donating troops for peacekeeping and such.
And why is a UN-veto a roadblock for other countries?
If they want to help out, why shouldnt they be able to? Poland, Spain, Australia, the UK and many many many others of that big coalition of the willing are already helping out.
a) Why do you need more? (Didnt i hear you say quite often how big and unbeatable the US Army was?)
b) Why do you need an UN-resolution? (for the benefits duh)
c) Why shouldnt France use it right to veto something it doesnt want to approve? I guess many people also didnt want the 80+ pro-israel-vetoes by the US in the UN.



--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
Posts: 2,633
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Dava]
    #1926741 - 09/17/03 11:15 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
Not true. Russia and China also made some comments about the resolution and how it needs a proper 'tuning' before they ll approve it. So that makes 3 out of 5 against it.





I have heard that at worst they would abstain and not vote at all, but they wouldn't veto it.

Quote:

France doesnt run his own wars in Africa, they are donating troops for peacekeeping and such.
And why is a UN-veto a roadblock for other countries?
If they want to help out, why shouldnt they be able to? Poland, Spain, Australia, the UK and many many many others of that big coalition of the willing are already helping out.




We have allowed France to do what they want in Africa. The have been screwing up that contenant long before the UN existed anyway.

Quote:

a) Why do you need more? (Didnt i hear you say quite often how big and unbeatable the US Army was?)




We don't have to have any more foreign troops. It would be nice though, and would allow us to rotate our troops a little better. The main reason is political of course. I think this resolution was designed more to be an olive branch than anything.

Quote:

b) Why do you need an UN-resolution? (for the benefits duh)




Again, mainly political. It would be nice to have the UN back the building of Iraq. Many countries such as Pakistan, and India want a resolution before they will help.

Quote:

c) Why shouldnt France use it right to veto something it doesnt want to approve? I guess many people also didnt want the 80+ pro-israel-vetoes by the US in the UN.




I never said the shouldn't. It is their right. I just think they are doing it for revenge for ignoring them earlier. There reasons for not supporting the resolution are ridiculous.


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InvisibleLazerouth
Drunkard

Registered: 10/16/00
Posts: 1,091
Loc: England
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1926834 - 09/17/03 11:46 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

just out of curiosity can any us citizen be drafted? if you have dual citizenship would that stop them? ima uk an us citizen i hope that mr.bush lets me use a p90.


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OfflineDava
journeyman
Registered: 03/03/03
Posts: 80
Loc: Belgium
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1926838 - 09/17/03 11:49 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


I have heard that at worst they would abstain and not vote at all, but they wouldn't veto it.




http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/05/sprj.irq.un/
I ve nowhere read Russia would abstain at most.
>>
Washington's draft resolution requesting help in Iraq -- which Russia has described as a good start that still needs "very serious work."
>>
It doesnt look like they ll approve the resolution tomorrow.

Quote:


We have allowed France to do what they want in Africa. The have been screwing up that contenant long before the UN existed anyway.




How cheap. Its better to screw something up than to drain it from it ppl and use them as slaves (y). Or should i start about the treatment of indians and blacks in the good old days of the us?
Europe is taking up its responsibilities towards ex-colonies.

Quote:


We don't have to have any more foreign troops. It would be nice though, and would allow us to rotate our troops a little better. The main reason is political of course. I think this resolution was designed more to be an olive branch than anything.




Lets see at that link i gave you.
Look at the text beneath the pic >>
The U.S. is seeking military, financial and political help in Iraq from U.N. members.
Quote:


Again, mainly political. It would be nice to have the UN back the building of Iraq. Many countries such as Pakistan, and India want a resolution before they will help.




Again i quote >>
The U.S. is seeking military, financial and political help in Iraq from U.N. members.

Besides, if India and Pakistan want a resolution before they will help, that means that they want the US to comply to international demands on the Iraq-question, including those of France.
A UN resolution is not just a stamp or a hollow paper.

Maybe they even dont want to help out but say they do, while knowing that the biggers countries would make it hard for the US to comply to international demands.



Quote:


I just think they are doing it for revenge for ignoring them earlier.




Hmm, wait, let me finish these french fries here first. Ok, finished, sorry to get a lil bit offtopic, now what were you saying about childish revenge?



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Offlineshakta
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Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Dava]
    #1927016 - 09/18/03 12:40 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Dava said:
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/05/sprj.irq.un/
I ve nowhere read Russia would abstain at most.

Washington's draft resolution requesting help in Iraq -- which Russia has described as a good start that still needs "very serious work."

It doesnt look like they ll approve the resolution tomorrow.

Quote:



We will see when they vote on it. I am sure some changed will be made. You always leave a little wiggle room in something like this.

Quote:

How cheap. Its better to screw something up than to drain it from it ppl and use them as slaves (y). Or should i start about the treatment of indians and blacks in the good old days of the us?
Europe is taking up its responsibilities towards ex-colonies.




Most if not all the land in Europe has been stolen from someone else in the past. Let's not look at the bad shit European countries have done in the past. Racial tolerance hasn't exactly been a strong point of Europe even recently.

The US's historical colonies pale in comparison. France did a great job with Viet Nam for example. Besides what the hell does that have to do with the current situation in Iraq.

Quote:


Lets see at that link i gave you.
Look at the text beneath the pic >>
The U.S. is seeking military, financial and political help in Iraq from U.N. members.





Yes we are. That does not mean we can't handle the situation if we have to though.


Quote:


The U.S. is seeking military, financial and political help in Iraq from U.N. members.




Again I will say that the political benefits outweigh any troops we will get from Europe.

Quote:

Besides, if India and Pakistan want a resolution before they will help, that means that they want the US to comply to international demands on the Iraq-question, including those of France.
A UN resolution is not just a stamp or a hollow paper.




First of all, just because France wants us to totally screw up the situation doesn't mean that we are going to let them make us do it. We will definately continue with the coalition we have, before we do that. Secondly, all those resolutions made against Saddam sure seemed pretty damn hollow to me.

Quote:

Maybe they even dont want to help out but say they do, while knowing that the biggers countries would make it hard for the US to comply to international demands.




Maybe, monkeys might fly out of my ass too. Neither of us has a fucking clue if that has any merit or not.



Quote:


Hmm, wait, let me finish these french fries here first. Ok, finished, sorry to get a lil bit offtopic, now what were you saying about childish revenge?




Yeah, changing the name of two dishes in cafeteria of a government building in response to an ally totally letting us down, is exactly like refusing to allow the rest of the world to help rebuild a fellow country. :rolleyes:


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Offlinedomite
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1927224 - 09/18/03 01:35 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)


Maybe, monkeys might fly out of my ass too. Neither of us has a fucking clue if that has any merit or not.

speak for yourself. I happen to have very good evedence that monkeys are going to fly out of your ass.


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Offlineshakta
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: domite]
    #1928452 - 09/18/03 10:53 AM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Let me know when it is coming so I can cath them, and make them into those land mine detecting monkeys.


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: shakta]
    #1928737 - 09/18/03 01:17 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

read _starship troopers_ by heinlein...
citizenship is granted ONLY to veterans of federal service...
(but NO forced conscription!!!)


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: ]
    #1928750 - 09/18/03 01:23 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

I was just diagnosed yesterday with being Schizotypal.I don't agree with the diagnosis,but no combat for this looney. :grin: :thumbup: 


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Invisiblewingnutx

Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,282
Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: gnrm23]
    #1929267 - 09/18/03 04:02 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

read _starship troopers_ by heinlein...
citizenship is granted ONLY to veterans of federal service...
(but NO forced conscription!!!)




But those were not necessarily military veterans. They did some sort of federal service, often hard and dirty civil engineering type work.


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OfflineDava
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: wingnutx]
    #1929845 - 09/18/03 06:48 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:


Besides what the hell does that have to do with the current situation in Iraq.




You brought it up.
Quote:


Again I will say that the political benefits outweigh any troops we will get from Europe.




If you mean financial by political, i tend to agree
Quote:


Secondly, all those resolutions made against Saddam sure seemed pretty damn hollow to me.




Those accusations about WMD's were even hollower.
The US mainly accused the rest of the world not taking up his responsabilities (sp?) to the high risk Iraq posed to the world.
Well, that seemed to be a big lie. Its not for nothing the UN didnt believe them.
Quote:


Yeah, changing the name of two dishes in cafeteria of a government building in response to an ally totally letting us down, is exactly like refusing to allow the rest of the world to help rebuild a fellow country.




That is the most known example.
Hmm, another one.
Currently, the western world is highly debating where the first (expiremental) nucleair fusionplant would be built. The 4 countries where it may be build are : Spain, France, Canada and Japan.
Well, it is no surprise that the US has a preference for Spain (pro-war) than one for France (anti-war).

Hmm, an ally letting us down?
France sure doesnt get the term 'ally' anymore these days, i even bet there are many americans who love to see a nuke on Paris.
And why would the rest of the world rebuild a country you shot to pieces?
Iraq was a leading country on terms of infrastructure and such before Gulf War 1. The embargo + the last Gulf War and the american occupation right now are even destroying more. That embargo should been lifted years ago, the 2nd Gulf War should never been there.





--------------------
"These psychedelic substances cause hysterical psychoses in people who have not taken them..."
- Timothy Leary


Edited by Dava (09/18/03 06:56 PM)


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Offlineshakta
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Re: How to avoid the coming military draft... [Re: Dava]
    #1930408 - 09/18/03 10:19 PM (17 years, 4 months ago)

Saddam brought all of that crap onto his own country. Let's assume there are no more WMDs, the man clearly kept up the appearances that he had them, so he wouldn't be attacked. I don't really want to argue this all out again. You know the whole gold toilet instead of food for his people thing. If we are to be blamed for the all the damage, the UN is most certainly to blame as well. The repairs in many cases involve replacing entire infrastructures that were not blown apart, but which instead have fallen apart.


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