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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19209952 - 11/30/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Try it then, if you figure it out then write it up, unless you are the noob you are referencing.

It's simple, get an aluminum pan and put in the sub/cake mix (Rye or Wheat flour pref) about 1/3 of the way up, cover it aluminum foil and heat it in the oven to 350, once it reaches 350, turn in down to 230-250 and wait an hour.

You can also throw the casing (covered) in the oven with it for the next step.

Let it cool down, put it in your glove box or under a flow-hood and spawn to it. Cover the top layer of colonized sub with a casing, then re-cover it with the aluminum foil making sure it is sealed all the way around. Put the pan in a plastic grocery bag and tie it shut.

Wait a couple to a few weeks and fruit it.

ezpz


Edited by teknix (11/30/13 08:18 PM)


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: EarthBounded]
    #19209968 - 11/30/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EarthBounded said:
Ahhh nothing but ups and downs here are my two questions to help me sleep at night.
I am using doc34s was tek:

First off after my 15psi weight started to wobble we only were able to run them on low for 45 minutes not 60 because we needed time to depressurize before making it to holiday diner, will this put me at major risk for con tams, we soaked and rinsed and did ever step perfect, the other thing is we did not have time to do the other 7 quart jars we have all ready to be put in the PC. We are storing these in a cool room and they are covered in tinfoil and we will sterilize tomorrow will this 24 gap from jarring til it actually makes it to the PC be an issue?

I also Knocked up a two pound rye bag and 6 brf bags just for a fun holiday season.

Fun day :smile:

I am hoping the WBS colonizes fast then spawning to franks simple coir in 14 quart containers. Do you think 1 quart of spawn is good for a 14 qt  mini mono?



Where are your nutrients gonna come from?

Mushrooms need both water and nutrients, the more quarts of spawn the better IMO

Coir is good due to water retention and texture, then you just need lots of nutrients
people often use 6 quarts or so of nutrients for monos

The more nutrients you add, the fewer monos you have to do, and the higher first yield :-)

One day I hope to try coir+wormcastings+6 wbs
Need about 4" of sub

24-36 hours seems to have worked for me, but the tek recommends less than that
(it will just ferment a bit, but still useable most of the time)
I also shake the jars after taking them out of the PC, so the WBS doesnt stick to the sides


Edited by lessismore (11/30/13 08:04 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19209971 - 11/30/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Try it then, if you figure it out then write it up, unless you are the noob you are referencing.




I would love to but at the moment I gotta a lot of other ill advised experiments on the go. Things that I want to test before crashing into someone else's thread spouting off like I was giving the mycological sermon on the mount. Since this is your brainchild, the burden of proof would be on you to prove your claims. In the meantime the rest of us will grow mushies using time tested methods and I will continue with my own experiments on the side.

Oh and FYI I am a noob. Probably always will be.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19209982 - 11/30/13 08:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What do you want proof of? The concept is solid, there is no reason it wouldn't work.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19210009 - 11/30/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

btw, I saw a tray with coir+2 pf cakes.. 150g wet, or 15g dry 1st flush iirc (2pf cakes is approx same volume spawn as 1 quart WBS iirc)

it was in a tek in here somewhere

if you are happy with that yield I would go ahead with a mini mono, mini monos work great IME (although I really prefer full sized monos, tend to do much better, maybe due to better airflow?)
have had around 150-170g max 1st flush from 2 pfcakes too with straw in a normal sized mono
(but the shrooms were weak, maybe due to not a lot of nutrients vs bulk sub.. not sure)

cant get enough spawn now :-) need a larger PC


Edited by lessismore (11/30/13 08:15 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19210047 - 11/30/13 08:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
What do you want proof of? The concept is solid, there is no reason it wouldn't work.




To be frank, it sounds like a pain in the ass. I use agar and grains because they are proven, with a low fail rate. I'm not worried about growing mushrooms without a PC. No end game in that idea for me, sorry :shrug:


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #19210055 - 11/30/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's probably the least messy way to get a tray going, because you don't need so many containers to clean.

You only have the spawn jars/bags and the casing tray to worry about.  And generally you can fit way more stuff into your oven then you can into a PC.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19210060 - 11/30/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

When you say cakes, you mean BRF cakes or bulk substrate in trays?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: PussyFart]
    #19210062 - 11/30/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Flour + verm, Or Flour + activated carbon, or a combination.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19210070 - 11/30/13 08:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I thought so.....that has fail written all over it......

I was thinking maybe you were confusing terms, but no, it's just a wack experiment....BRF needs to be kept sterile....it is not used as a bulk substrate additive for this reason.

Spawning to BRF in open air is just asking for contams IMO....regardless of the sterilization method.


Edited by PussyFart (11/30/13 08:28 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: PussyFart]
    #19210080 - 11/30/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Open air? There is no open air mang.

If you don't have a flow hood and can't fir your trays in a glovebox then get a bigger glove box.

You could make a bunch of cake trays and put them into a monotub if you had a flow hood and cleaned out the tubs really well, or had a nice little area to decontaminate.

The casing layer and grains will protect the nutrients at the bottom, like the layer of verm protects your cakes.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19210098 - 11/30/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I would probably not spawn to BRF in openair/glovebox, sounds dangerous

have you had success with that?

with straw I put my BRF cakes in the blender and mix with straw in open air though
but that is because they colonize so quickly and the straw is pasteurized to not really allow molds, pasteurization preserves the helpful bacteria so molds will have a long time to take a hold of it the first many days
and all the spawn is already 100% colonized

not so if you spawn to uncolonized BRF
thats just a black/green mold infestation waiting to happen IMO, even in a glovebox


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19210100 - 11/30/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The part to worry about in  making a tub this way is when you first spawn the cake or grains.


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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: PussyFart]
    #19210104 - 11/30/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah this cook it in the oven in a pan stuff is full of failure. the first and not even the least of the problem is that the outer edges of the substrate would most likely burn being as they are in direct contact with a conductive metal. Second is that it does not require sufficient pressure to kill all of the microbes or spores.
You can, however, steam sterilize over the course of 3 days with 3 steam treatments. These allow for the germination of endospores over the course of that time and subsequently allow them to be killed.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: lessismore]
    #19210105 - 11/30/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mio said:
I would probably not spawn to BRF in openair/glovebox, sounds dangerous

have you had success with that?

with straw I put my BRF cakes in the blender and mix with straw in open air though
but that is because they colonize so quickly and the straw is pasteurized to not really allow molds, pasteurization preserves the helpful bacteria so molds will have a long time to take a hold of it the first many days




Yeah, most of my work in the lab is open air inoculation. I have never even turned the flow-hood on, and we don't have a glove box. But peoples houses aren't generally as clean, so I wouldn't do a tub unless you are sure there is a clean place to do it, and that would be a lot of wasted materials if you screwed it up. But you can do it.


Edited by teknix (11/30/13 08:49 PM)


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: Hammburgler]
    #19210127 - 11/30/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Hammburgler said:
yeah this cook it in the oven in a pan stuff is full of failure. the first and not even the least of the problem is that the outer edges of the substrate would most likely burn being as they are in direct contact with a conductive metal. Second is that it does not require sufficient pressure to kill all of the microbes or spores.
You can, however, steam sterilize over the course of 3 days with 3 steam treatments. These allow for the germination of endospores over the course of that time and subsequently allow them to be killed.




Nah, it is all wet, no burning, the foil keeps the water inside and steams the sub, it doesn't leak out if you make sure it is sealed properly. It comes out pretty much the same consistency as it went it.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19210146 - 11/30/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you want to do a tub, you should probably use cardboard, and put the cake mix in the tub while it's hot and cover it with pastuerized/boiled cardboard, until it cools down, then spawn the grains on top of the cardboard and case over it.

The cardboard can protect the nutritive sub from being exposed to air.


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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: teknix]
    #19210410 - 11/30/13 10:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You are all strait cray, YES I love these responses because I learn a shit load.
NotHacker420
teknix
Mio

I love all of you for the info, I don't give a fuck who is right or wrong I learned what I needed, I am going to inoculate them all in the morning then follow up.

Also I didn't get much response just from MIO on my jars that had to sit for like 12-24 hours before being PCd huge problem?

Even tho they were only PCd for 45 minutes after the weight wobbled I still feel we created sterile spawn we will see, I am the king of messing up around here.

I have a pretty cheap PC too so it was on for a good hour and 15 min but only 45 min after it showed 15psi


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Edited by EarthBounded (11/30/13 10:35 PM)


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OfflineEarthBounded
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: EarthBounded]
    #19212043 - 12/01/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Bump,

Need to know kinda quick, I didn't get much response, we washed ,soaked and simmered our wbs, tyveked ,poly filled and put tinfoil over these last night but we had a concert to go to so we were not able to sterilize until this morning is that a problem to leave the jars in a cold room covererd for 24 hours in between loading and PCing.

thx
EB


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Waiting 24 hours to sterilize WBS / Time [Re: EarthBounded]
    #19212128 - 12/01/13 11:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ok so two things, the first may be unnecessary

The goal is to get your PC up to 15 psi and leave it there for 1.5 hours. Doesn't matter how long it takes to get there, you need 1.5 hours at 15 psi. Once it comes up to pressure you lower your heat until the rocker is just barely spitting steam. You only start the timer after you get the PC to pressure

On the second point it seems like you already PC'd for 45 minutes? On it's face I can see no reason why you wouldn't be able to pop them back in, unless the moisture content is fucked up. But if you have the cash and limited spores I would just re do it all. I know that sucks but if something goes wrong you don't want to think "DAMNIT I SHOULD HAVE JUST MADE NEW SPAWN JARS".

Doing a step perfectly allows you to discount it as a problem if things go wrong down the line.

edit - words


Edited by Juicin (12/01/13 11:26 AM)


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