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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211214 - 12/01/13 04:39 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
That's funny, because I could have swore you made a video about making cakes by boiling. (and that would not be sterilizing, but it still works, amirite?)



He didn't boil anything but the water in the pot....the cakes were steam sterilized for 90 minutes.....

He was referring to your "oven method" not sterilizing anything....which is bad, because the entire point of applying heat at this point is to sterilize the substrate in the jars/bags.

BRF needs to be sterile, and remain that way until fully colonized.

Your method does not achieve this.....steam sterilizing them for 90 minutes does.....dry heat bad.....steam good.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: PussyFart]
    #19211216 - 12/01/13 04:40 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

How is the steam getting from outside the jar inside of it?

The steam is coming from water within the jar, same concept as it comming from within the tray.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211221 - 12/01/13 04:46 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
How is the steam getting from outside the jar inside of it?



It's not....it allows for there to be no evaporation of the moisture inside the cake....which means the moisture content of the jars should remain the same.

Foil or not, in an oven moisture IS going to escape from the substrate.....this is bad....not good.

Also, heat from steam will penetrate to the center of the jars quicker than dry heat from an oven.

Quote:

teknix said:
The steam is coming from water within the jar, same concept as it comming from within the tray.



This makes no sense....why would you want this to happen....the steam comes from the water in the bottom of the pot....there is no steam in an oven.


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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: PussyFart]
    #19211225 - 12/01/13 04:47 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What are you talking about? The steam is going through the glass huh?

The water content stays the same because it is covered and condenses on the top only to precipitate again. Try to take the lid of and tell me it isn't steaming inside.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211229 - 12/01/13 04:48 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No...I never said that....I said the heat does...stop twisting everyones words around.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: PussyFart]
    #19211230 - 12/01/13 04:50 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Then what are you talking about? Where's the steam coming from to get inside the jar to get on the flour?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211234 - 12/01/13 04:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
How is the steam getting from outside the jar inside of it?

The steam is coming from water within the jar, same concept as it comming from within the tray.




With one slight nuance of physics:

The water in the brf jars reaches 100C so it produces steam within the jar.  That steam doesn't escape through the lids because the steaming kettle is at 100% humidity and the pressure inside and outside the jar is equal.

The water in the center of a bulk tray in the oven for an hour won't reach that temperature.  If it did, it would all evaporate out, leaving your substrate bone dry. The surface of your substrate is going to steam somewhat and evaporate moisture, but if the center reaches that temperature, all your moisture by definition will be gone.

This is physics, not opinion.
RR


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19211238 - 12/01/13 04:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Lol, if you put a pot of water in the oven on 250 it's going to boil and before it boils it's going to steam.

And where do you suppose that steam is going to evaporate too?

What does the pressure inside and outside the jar have to do with anything in this case? Is the pressure going to be any different inside the tray or outside of it?

The temperatur is slightly higher to make up for heating the water through the air, which is really the only difference.


Edited by teknix (12/01/13 05:01 AM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211242 - 12/01/13 05:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)



You will not see it 'steam' in an oven before it boils.

If in a pot on a stovetop, the 'steam' you see before boiling isn't steam.  It's evaporated moisture cooling to the dew point of the air in your kitchen, thus it's actually 'fog'.

You helped make my point.  The pot of water in the oven will 'steam' off(the word is evaporate) from the top until it's dry.  Only after it's dry can the container it's in actually reach 100C.

This pissing match is going to end.  If you guys don't understand parts of science, please study and learn, but don't argue about that which you don't know.
RR


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19211252 - 12/01/13 05:13 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
:facepalm:

You will not see it 'steam' in an oven before it boils.





Quote:


steam
stΔ“m/Submit
noun
1.
the vapor into which water is converted when heated, forming a white mist of minute water droplets in the air.





Wrong.

Quote:


If in a pot on a stovetop, the 'steam' you see before boiling isn't steam.  It's evaporated moisture cooling to the dew point of the air in your kitchen, thus it's actually 'fog'.





Sure it is, evaporation caused by heating water.

Quote:


You helped make my point.  The pot of water in the oven will 'steam' off(the word is evaporate) from the top until it's dry.  Only after it's dry can the container it's in actually reach 100C.





No I didn't. So how is that different from the cake your boiling? You still haven't clarified that point.

Quote:


This pissing match is going to end.  If you guys don't understand parts of science, please study and learn, but don't argue about that which you don't know.
RR




I have no idea what you are talking about, but I know you are wrong. I don't consider writing a tek and defending the validity a pissing match. Especially when you are claiming there is a difference in the physics, that hasn't been clarified, while claiming my knowledge of science is lacking without any evidence.


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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211262 - 12/01/13 05:23 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:

Quote:


You helped make my point.  The pot of water in the oven will 'steam' off(the word is evaporate) from the top until it's dry.  Only after it's dry can the container it's in actually reach 100C.





No I didn't. So how is that different from the cake your boiling? You still haven't clarified that point.






The cake in a jar is suspended above a pot of boiling water with a lid on it.  This creates 100% humidity in the pot above the water and below the lid.  This is what allows the substrate in the jar to reach 100C without evaporating all the moisture away.  This is why we sometimes have to add water to the boiling pot during the cycle, but not to the jars, since they don't dry out.

In your tray in the oven, you have no pot of water surrounding the substrate.  The moisture in the tray is all you have, thus by definition when it reaches 210F/100C, all the moisture will be gone due to evaporation.

I really can't explain it any clearer.  I wish you the best of luck.
RR


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19211270 - 12/01/13 05:34 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

RR, have you tried it without covering the pot?

I don't really see how the humidity is going to change the maximum temperature the water can reach tbh.

The water doesn't evaporate away because there is a lid on the jar, there is no pressure differential that is going to force the steam inside of the jars. It is always going to be 100% humid in the jar if it is hot enough and the water cant escape. The same as the tray. All the humidity in the pot is doing is distributing the heat about equally, it isn't increasing the temperature or the maximum temperature that can be achieved.

It really does work.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211289 - 12/01/13 05:52 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you fill up the pot up with water to the level of the substrate in the jars and leave the lid off, you will have  the same effect as you do filling up the bottom with water and covering it.


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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: Psilicon]
    #19211292 - 12/01/13 05:54 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Try the tek and post the results imo.




I'm as skeptical as the others, but instead of arguing with you about the theory (they have that pretty well covered), I'd invite you to try the tek and post the results.  I don't believe you've done either.




:whathesaid:


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"I think ill eat some shrooms right about now, and ill continue to until it doesnt feel like the right thing to do."


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: SizlChest]
    #19211294 - 12/01/13 05:58 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

What do you want to see me grow? You guys realize I live in the USA and could go to prison if I posted an illegal grow right?

Not worth it even to prove a point.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211302 - 12/01/13 06:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If I ever did decide to post an illegal grow, it would be with an unapproved puppet and no one would no it was me, so that's not going to help you much.

:shrug:


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211306 - 12/01/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
What do you want to see me grow? You guys realize I live in the USA and could go to prison if I posted an illegal grow right?



Nice excuse.....


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: PussyFart]
    #19211307 - 12/01/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks. I guess you forgot what happened to Ulbricht already?


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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
    #19211309 - 12/01/13 06:15 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
What do you want to see me grow? You guys realize I live in the USA and could go to prison if I posted an illegal grow right?

Not worth it even to prove a point.




You don't have to grow actives.


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"Hell, shrooms have blown up from under me and kicked my ass on 2 grams once."
"I think ill eat some shrooms right about now, and ill continue to until it doesnt feel like the right thing to do."


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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: SizlChest]
    #19211311 - 12/01/13 06:17 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I don't grow actives because it isn't worth it.

:lol:

Maybe in a couple months I'll turn it into a pictorial for you guys, if no one shows it works first.



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