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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
#19210605 - 11/30/13 11:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The fact is you have no idea if it will work, and don't have any good reason why it wouldn't/doesn't.
He's given you several good reasons why it won't work. However it may appear to work since contaminants take time to show up, but most likely you'd have mold by the end of the first flush. Also setting the oven to 250F is not going to heat the substrate to 250F. One hour at 250F or even 350F is not long enough to oven sterilize anything.
Oh and let me reiterate, BRF (or any other flour) is not bulk substrate. It would be nice if BRF didn't need to be sterilized but it does. Any who has lost a BRF cake to contamination can tell you that.
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Edited by Kizzle (11/30/13 11:39 PM)
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,854
Last seen: 6 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
#19210739 - 12/01/13 12:03 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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teknix said: The water starts steaming at below 212 bro, and it will be steaming a good amount of time, anyways I'm not here to try to convince you it works, use it or don't.
I know it works, and that's pretty much all the assurance you are gonna get unless you try it.
You might want to define bulk and then define substrate and then decide if it qualifies.
That's drying your substrate not steaming it. Steaming is transferring heat to your substrate with steam not from.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,854
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
#19210800 - 12/01/13 12:26 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The water's not heating anything. The oven has to heat the water and when the water evaporates it takes some of the heat with it. I guarantee it's not going to condense on the foil either while the oven is still on. That can only happen when the temperature under the foil is hotter than the temperature above it.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,854
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
#19210828 - 12/01/13 12:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Because I already know what happens to grains, whole or ground, if they're not thoroughly sterilized and kept sterile until fully colonized.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: daltonvz]
#19212059 - 12/01/13 11:06 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why? There's a lot of good information in it, not counting the original post.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
#19213512 - 12/01/13 04:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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teknix said: Another point of evidence is that suggested temperature is 72-75 or some bogus made up shit now, when it used to be 85, and it is 85 in the real world, but the cakes aren't sterilized so the incubation at optimal temperatures can germinate the spores that weren't killed in his steaming.
Germs don't spontaneously generate because of heat. It's because they were never all killed in the first place.
Or because filters aren't 100% efficient. Also there's a difference between the scientific definition of sterility and commercial sterility. In commercial sterility organisms that can't grow in the conditions and temperatures that the product is going to be kept in don't count. That's all that's really important.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
#19213533 - 12/01/13 04:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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teknix said:
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Because the oven is dry, the water vapor will transfer from the substrate while it's heating. This will result in slower heating of the substrate and simultaneously drying it out.
Given enough time, the end result could possibly be sterile substrate, but likely will be very dry. But, sterility is still unlikely because vermiculite does not transfer heat very well. Vermiculite is sometimes used as an insulter for this reason.
The water stays in the tray because it is covered. Do you know how the water cycle works? It was already explained but evidently you didn't read the thread.
Perhaps you missed what I wrote before. That's not how the water cycle works in an oven. When your steaming in a pot on the stove the lid is much cooler from the cool air above it. In an oven the air above is hotter than the temperature in the pot, it's going to condense there.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,854
Last seen: 6 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: teknix]
#19213712 - 12/01/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Any water that condenses on the foil would be condensing on the wrong side of it. It will always condense on the hotter side and temperature in the oven while it's running will hotter than the temperature under the foil. That means any water vapor in contact with the foil it will be rising in temperature because of foil is direct content with the hotter oven air. Water vapor condenses on a surface when it causes it to get cooler, not hotter.
The reason it condenses the lid of a pot is because the other side of the lid has cool air, not the hot oven air.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: hgmstl]
#19214759 - 12/01/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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When you post a tek expect some criticism. When you make a claim that contradicts everyone else's predictions expect people to want proof.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: THE Oven Tek. No PC for Bulk tubs/trays. [Re: hgmstl]
#19215081 - 12/01/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Proof is other people being able to reproduce the results. Part of the reason peoples opinions are so biased is this and similar techniques have been tried before. Not to mention the reasoning behind it defies logic. That's strictly referring to sterilizing in an oven. I have no doubt you can g2g grain spawn to a properly steriled bag of verm/flour mix with great results.
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