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vbug66
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Registered: 04/25/11
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been having issues with grain
#19210209 - 11/30/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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ok, i have been trying to work with grain but have had trouble with the moisture content. it seems its either to dry or i get it to wet. also i have been getting a lot of small green mold spots. i am working with wheat. has anyone else had issues like this? i have followed the grain tek to the letter and just cant seem to get it right. forgive me if this is in the wrong forum but i have recently tried a new idea that came to me and i will post with my conclusions. before i load my grain into my jars i added about a half inch of dry verm. i figure the dry verm will collect any extra moisture and prevent the slimy situation that i have been seeing in the bottoms of my jars. how does this idea sound to you guys?
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Sulfurshelfsean
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: vbug66]
#19210231 - 11/30/13 09:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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For the bulk of my myco career I had not steam dried my rye berries after the simmer. Definitely let those babies steam dry, it has added worlds of success to my grows
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teknix
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You can also use newspaper to help absorb excess moisture if you don't get the water poured out.
The grains should feel dry on the outside.
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vbug66
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do you mind explaining steam drying to me that is a term i have never heard of before
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: vbug66]
#19210251 - 11/30/13 09:26 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Boil the grain before you are done, and then keep them spread out so the steam evaporates off them.
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Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes



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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19210262 - 11/30/13 09:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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^What he said^ Strain em out after your boil/simmer step, and spread them thin and let the steam evaporate itself off the grains til they are dry.
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vbug66
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19210268 - 11/30/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i let them drain for over a hour so i wasnt expecting them to be to wet. also i might add that i have come to prefer steam sterilization over pressure cooking but the troubles i have been having has brought me to pressure cooking. i've about decided to go back to brf basics but my hardheadedness has me determined to figure it out. well at least i will try till i use up this 50 lb sack of grain.
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Sulfurshelfsean
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: vbug66]
#19210277 - 11/30/13 09:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you let them drain in the colander too long, they wont get completely dry. There isn't enough surface area for all the steam to rise when they're clumped together. Let it sit in the colander until you don't see any moisture dripping off, then spread them out as thin as you can while they're still hot. The'll get bone dr on the outside, which is what you want. Moist on the inside, dry on the outside. If they're dry on the outside, you will get less chance of bacterial contamination. And bacterial contam. is my arch nemesis. Haven't seen him around lately....
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Edited by Sulfurshelfsean (11/30/13 09:37 PM)
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vbug66
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ok i haven't been doing that. i have been soaking over nite then boil for about 15 mins then i put them into a strainer. i can see how spreading them out could help with the problems i have been having. thanks for the feed back. i usually re-frame from posting cause there are some real dicks on here. appreciate the advice. i think i just heard a jar crack. i need to study up on my pc knowledge
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vbug66
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you probably aint seen him around cause the fucker has been chilling in my closet for the past 3 weeks. lol
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Sulfurshelfsean
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: vbug66]
#19210302 - 11/30/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yea there are some off-putting individuals on here at times. Stick with it though! And you probably ran your PC dry if you have cracking jars.
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vbug66
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ok i think the dry verm in the bottom of the jars is going to be a bust. seems to be to much moisture in the jars. but i got plenty of lc so i will probably give them a good shake and shoot then up and see how they do.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: vbug66]
#19210463 - 11/30/13 10:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
vbug66 said: also i have been getting a lot of small green mold spots. i am working with wheat. has anyone else had issues like this?
Quote:
vbug66 said: but i got plenty of lc so i will probably give them a good shake and shoot then up and see how they do.
If I was a gambling man, I'd put 3 prints down that says that LC is your main problem. Poorly hydrated grains ain't gonna help either but that LC is probably the source of your mold. How was it inoculated? If you say anything but a clean wedge then that LC = Fail.
Also putting verm in grain jars is no bueno. If your having issues with grains sticking that the steam dry that was suggested above doesn't help (though it will make a big difference, just pour the grains right after the simmer into the strainer hot, no need to muck about with newspaper) then try a spoon of gypsum into your soak water. I will not soak without my gypsum and diluted coffee these days.
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: vbug66]
#19210482 - 11/30/13 10:43 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'll tell you how to get some grains going, and prob the best way without agar.
Go back to your cakes first of all, and do a multi spore inoculation on atleast half a dozen. After they are colonized Pick out which one is growing the fastest and the best.
Wrap a spoon in aluminum foil and put it in the oven on about 400 degrees for 15 minutes and then put the spoon along with your un-inoculated grains and your chosen cake, in the glove box.
Open the cake and mix it all up with the spoon. Then put a spoonfull of myc in each of your grain jars.
And/Or you can just you your cakes and spawn them to a tray/tub the same way.
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tripdawg420
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19210524 - 11/30/13 10:54 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said:

You can also use newspaper to help absorb excess moisture if you don't get the water poured out.
The grains should feel dry on the outside.
this is how i dry my seed
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19210537 - 11/30/13 10:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: Wrap a spoon in aluminum foil and put it in the oven on about 400 degrees for 15 minutes and then put the spoon along with your un-inoculated grains and your chosen cake, in the glove box.
Open the cake and mix it all up with the spoon. Then put a spoonfull of myc in each of your grain jars.
Holy shit dude I'm having a hard time with the gibberish
You are recommending someone take a spoon (oven sterilized aside) and mix their cake up to spawn to sterile grains? Why even bother doing it in a SAB if your just gonna be mixing in the contams trapped in the dry verm layer?
Shit man, you might have a biology degree but I hope you didn't pay much for it
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19210546 - 11/30/13 11:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I never use a dry verm layer in the first place, waste of verm and space if your jar is made properly.
The spoon can reach temperatures exceeding 250, because it is a conductor of heat being it is metal and not saturated in water.
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19210549 - 11/30/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: tripdawg420]
#19210554 - 11/30/13 11:06 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Some of you guys are brainwashed, lol.
But yeah, dump out the verm first if you have it on it, or just make a cake without verm so there isn't any hidden contams.
You don't need an inoculation port either, just take off the lid. You only need 1 hole covered in tyvek, in the lid.
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Pastywhyte
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Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19210565 - 11/30/13 11:08 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: I never use a dry verm layer in the first place, waste of verm and space if your jar is made properly.
Now your just trolling. Unless your using SHIP and filters, which most noobs are not, a dry verm layer is hardly a waste. More like a necessary part of a proven tek. I have never put anyone on ignore, not even anne halonium. But after tonights gibberish I am very tempted. Whats next, coffee filters over popcorn? Spawn your own poo? No wait I know, inoculate the air. Mushrooms that grow on rainbows and clouds.
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19210567 - 11/30/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You have no idea what you are talking about, sorry.
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Mr.Colorado
chef extraordinaire



Registered: 11/18/13
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: tripdawg420]
#19210580 - 11/30/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have never boiled, simmered, etc. just a 24hr soak and into the strainer until I can run my hand through the grains and barely any stick. Never had any issues. But different things work for different people. personally I would never put verm in my grain jars... especially if it's being used for spawn.
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Mr.Colorado]
#19210587 - 11/30/13 11:18 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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No shit, grains grow just fine without a dry verm layer, lol.
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Sulfurshelfsean
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19210593 - 11/30/13 11:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why is he trolling? Experienced people tend to know shortcuts and tricks mang.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
Sulfurshelfsean said: Why is he trolling? Experienced people tend to know shortcuts and tricks mang.
Sure not debating that. But this forum has a lot of lurkers and new growers. The things that he is suggesting that are not fully explained are going to lead new growers down a path called fail. At any rate growing out a pf jar to inoculate grains does not seem easy or quick compared to many time tested methods.
In another thread he lays out a "tek" that he obviously threw together in 5 min, saying that one could sterilize a tray of field capacity brf mix in the oven, layered in boiled cardboard and inoculated with spawn and then cased all in one shot, as an easy way to do a tray. Sorry, but I find that inoculating a master with a clean wedge, G2G to a dozen quarts, then spawned to a proper sub in three 66 quart mono's a far easier and effective way to get mushies I guess I just have an issue with doing things in a time tested manner, even if I was to advocate straying off the beaten path, I would have a log, explaining my hypothesis, with pics and results, done more than once, to make my point.
I'm already past it, whatever.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19210357/gonew/1#UNREAD
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19210645 - 11/30/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I think you're a cop trying to milk pics along with your little buddy over there.

Either that or someone's puppet.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19210671 - 11/30/13 11:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: I think you're a cop trying to milk pics along with your little buddy over there.

I was thinking the same thing about you Who's my little buddy? Maybe if people ever saw you around here they might take you more seriously. Nevermind, I have zero interest in seeing the results of your oven tek, I already got a pretty good idea how it ends.
In all seriousness, I really don't care enough to continue this lame argument. I don't know you from Adam and I'm not in the mood to start a fight. But if I start seeing people on these boards in 2 weeks complaining about how their oven brf cardboard bulk spawn tray didn't work, I'm just gonna tell them to you 
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19210674 - 11/30/13 11:47 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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What the hell are you talking about, I been here since 08 . You show up 4 years later thinking you know everything, rofl.
Maybe you can learn more in a year than I can in 5 years, but it doesn't seem likely considering your comments and remarks.
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Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes



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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19210697 - 11/30/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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True. Newcomers should be doing teks to the T in the beginning.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19210734 - 12/01/13 12:01 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
teknix said: What the hell are you talking about, I been here since 08 . You show up 4 years later thinking you know everything, rofl.
Maybe you can learn more in a year than I can in 5 years, but it doesn't seem likely considering your comments and remarks.
First, the date that I signed up is not the day that I started to grow. Second, many people have a quick learning curve, I started agar after my first pf tek, well before I had an account. Third, I don't consider myself to be a mycological genius and never claimed I was one. Fourth, there are people on this site that have been around since 04 who have 40000 posts, and who have never grown a shroom in their life.
All I really ask is a little proof to some of your claims. Maybe I got a little outta hand before and for that I apologize. I really don't want to come across as a dick. I do have a hard time with some of the things you are suggesting. If your brf oven tray it really is something that you have done 100+ times and can be considered tried and true then please prove it. People would welcome something that easy. I personally like trays. They are great for little tests to see if you got a good monoculture or to do ms grows to clone from. I personally wouldn't use it, I like my agar and grains too much, but lots of other people are always on the lookout for new teks.
Anyway, sorry bout the horseshit, I probably should cut back on the liquor. *attempts to bury hatchet*
Edited by Pastywhyte (12/01/13 01:35 AM)
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teknix
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19210775 - 12/01/13 12:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't post incriminating pics, sorry.
*Considers hatchet buried*
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vbug66
Lil bit older

Registered: 04/25/11
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Last seen: 8 months, 11 days
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19231220 - 12/05/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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my lc were started from spore syringes from a trusted sponsor. i got to thinking it was from my lc's and tossed them. luckily i had back ups.
Edited by vbug66 (12/05/13 01:25 PM)
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vbug66
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Re: been having issues with grain [Re: teknix]
#19231264 - 12/05/13 01:32 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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i may try this with some of my cakes. i was just trying to work with grain. and i am used to working with lc, it just seems cleaner. since i dont have a flow hood or like working with glove boxes the cake to grain transfers or even g2g seem risky to me. and i hope i havent mislead anyone with my verm to over moist grain idea. i realize now i was trying to fix a problem that i myself created.
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