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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#19208275 - 11/30/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: I don't know much about obama care but I have never had any problems with the public health care in Canada. 
How old are you?
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,467
Loc: 613
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Bitter Cactus] 1
#19208276 - 11/30/13 11:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: I don't know much about obama care but I have never had any problems with the public health care in Canada. 
Yep people are generally pretty happy with it from what I've seen.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: zappaisgod]
#19208308 - 11/30/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: I don't know much about obama care but I have never had any problems with the public health care in Canada. 
How old are you?
Old enough.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#19208324 - 11/30/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Old enough to party *
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#19208354 - 11/30/13 12:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: I don't know much about obama care but I have never had any problems with the public health care in Canada. 
How old are you?
Old enough.
Old enough for what? I've had health insurance my whole life and between the ages of 20 and 45 went to the doctor less than 5 times and for essentially nothing. Worker's comp covered 2 of them anyway. Unless you are sickly or older your experience is utterly meaningless
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: zappaisgod] 2
#19208365 - 11/30/13 12:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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And because you happen to be relatively healthy (up to this point), you believe that everyone who isn't retarded probably is too, and therefore anything reeking of collectivism would be morally wrong. Interesting view.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,467
Loc: 613
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#19208396 - 11/30/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: I don't know much about obama care but I have never had any problems with the public health care in Canada. 
How old are you?
Old enough.
Old enough for what? I've had health insurance my whole life and between the ages of 20 and 45 went to the doctor less than 5 times and for essentially nothing. Worker's comp covered 2 of them anyway. Unless you are sickly or older your experience is utterly meaningless
It's possible to have plenty of experience with how the health system works without being sickly or old yourself.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: psi] 1
#19208403 - 11/30/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I dislike government in most areas but I can't see a fellow mate go without an operation he needs no matter how much it costs.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: koraks]
#19208426 - 11/30/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
koraks said: And because you happen to be relatively healthy (up to this point), you believe that everyone who isn't retarded probably is too, and therefore anything reeking of collectivism would be morally wrong. Interesting view.
That wasn't the point of my challenging his experience of the Canadian health system. My point in challenging his experience of the Canadian Health Care system was that it was almost certainly irrelevant for anybody who is a young healthy male to bother putting forth his personal experience as an example of it's efficacy.
I have made hundreds of posts about how shitty Canada's health system really is as I have about the shit that is England's. That was not one of them. I don't know that I ever brought morality into it, though. Kollektifism does destroy the individual but that is more a pragmatic judgment than a moral one.
Insurance companies are voluntarily entered into collectives. Governments are coercively entered into Kollektifs. Would you please make a case why I should be forced to pay for your health care? Please include a rationale for why I cannot demand that you abstain from all drug use, exercise regularly, maintain a healthy body weight, avoid risky behavior (i.e. motorcycles, snow mobiles rock climbing, skiing, contact sports, etc.) or you get nothing. Thanks in advance.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#19208431 - 11/30/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: I dislike government in most areas but I can't see a fellow mate go without an operation he needs no matter how much it costs.
Then you pay. Set up a fund. Take out loans. Paying for it with my money is bullshit. I don't even know the guy and I have better uses for the money.
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#19208440 - 11/30/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Michelle Obama 2016.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Dark_Star]
#19208449 - 11/30/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Mescalean 2016
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: psi]
#19208452 - 11/30/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
It's possible to have plenty of experience with how the health system works without being sickly or old yourself.
Fair enough. I've had 2 potentially fatal cancers. My odds of having survived both of them in the UK was slightly over 50%. In the US it is over 90%. Keep in mind I am well past 45. How's that for an anecdote?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Mescalean]
#19208457 - 11/30/13 12:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Zappa for President! My daughter got me a T-shirt saying that for my birthday
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: zappaisgod]
#19208523 - 11/30/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Crystal G said: Don't thank Obama. Thank the Republicans, for forcing him to agree to this mandated insurance BS. Obama originally was campaigning for socialized medicine, not universal health insurance.
This is complete bullshit. The Republicans had absolutely nothing to say about it and not one of them voted for it. I don't think Obama even read it before he signed it. I don't think Pelosi and Reid did either. But I bet Paul Ryan did.
This clusterfuck is 100% on the Dems. 100%
Well, NPR said it was because the Republicans were refusing to pass the socialized medicine bill until the mandate was changed to universal health insurance. Because many members of the Republican party were lobbying and being funded by insurance companies. That was the deal they made. Remember, Obama originally wanted universal healthcare, not universal insurance?
Also, Crystal G for the Party On Party.
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koraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: zappaisgod]
#19208535 - 11/30/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Would you please make a case why I should be forced to pay for your health care?
Because of the exact same reasons why we also pay together (you do in the US, I do elsewhere) for other (socio-technical) infrastructural aspects. Please make a case why health care specifically should be exempt from this.
As for the risk factors you mentioned: you left the most important one out. Genetics. You want to penalize people for being, say, BRCA1 carrier?
Anyway, I'm not even going to argue this with you. Time and again you have demonstrated being dogmatic when it comes to public policy. There's no need to argue with dogma. I'll gladly step aside and watch how it collapses by itself.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Insurance companies are voluntarily entered into collectives. Governments are coercively entered into Kollektifs.
(Ignoring the cheap trick suggesting that anything even approaching collectivism has anything to do with the Soviet doctrine -) The former's primary purpose is to maximize shareholder value. The second's primary purpose is to serve the interests of all people.
Edited by koraks (11/30/13 01:01 PM)
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 days, 10 hours
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Crystal G] 1
#19208603 - 11/30/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Crystal G said: Don't thank Obama. Thank the Republicans, for forcing him to agree to this mandated insurance BS. Obama originally was campaigning for socialized medicine, not universal health insurance.
This is complete bullshit. The Republicans had absolutely nothing to say about it and not one of them voted for it. I don't think Obama even read it before he signed it. I don't think Pelosi and Reid did either. But I bet Paul Ryan did.
This clusterfuck is 100% on the Dems. 100%
Well, NPR said it was because the Republicans were refusing to pass the socialized medicine bill until the mandate was changed to universal health insurance. Because many members of the Republican party were lobbying and being funded by insurance companies. That was the deal they made. Remember, Obama originally wanted universal healthcare, not universal insurance?
Also, Crystal G for the Party On Party.
"Because many members of the Republican party were lobbying and being funded by insurance companies."
The majority of the health care/insurance lobbying money has been given to the Dems the last 2 years, why? Obama care is getting the companies rich.
There was never any intention for universal health care by Obama, it was nothing more than rhetoric.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: qman]
#19208609 - 11/30/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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But obama said...
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur



Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 9,660
Loc: Mostly at home... Mostly....
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: Crystal G]
#19208616 - 11/30/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Crystal G said: Don't thank Obama. Thank the Republicans, for forcing him to agree to this mandated insurance BS. Obama originally was campaigning for socialized medicine, not universal health insurance.
This is complete bullshit. The Republicans had absolutely nothing to say about it and not one of them voted for it. I don't think Obama even read it before he signed it. I don't think Pelosi and Reid did either. But I bet Paul Ryan did.
This clusterfuck is 100% on the Dems. 100%
Well, NPR said it was because the Republicans were refusing to pass the socialized medicine bill until the mandate was changed to universal health insurance. Because many members of the Republican party were lobbying and being funded by insurance companies. That was the deal they made. Remember, Obama originally wanted universal healthcare, not universal insurance?
Also, Crystal G for the Party On Party.
This is bad information; no Republican voted for Obamacare, Crystal.
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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Juicin
Stranger

Registered: 10/27/13
Posts: 897
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Re: Obama care is doubling my health costs [Re: zappaisgod]
#19208620 - 11/30/13 01:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/
Here is one to remind you that you're just some dude on a mushroom forum*, and the whole developed world has decided universal healthcare is the only civilized option. And the most efficient.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jun/30/healthcare-spending-world-country
Notice how we spend 17 percent of GDP while most countries don't break 10? And we certainly aren't any healthier. So in what fantasy world do you think you're convincing anyone you know better than the people who use a system who get better results for cheaper.
Delusional at best
Edited by Juicin (11/30/13 01:27 PM)
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