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OfflineJordy
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: tealeaf]
    #19181081 - 11/24/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

tealeaf said:
Hey I'm all for fishing and do so myself, all I think is that its fucked up if all you do is catch and release. Would be the same thing as going out with an air rifle and wounding animals that you would never take home to eat.

Only in this day and age is that fucked up, the way we are consuming natural resources is leaving little for the future and polluting the earth enough to prevent future growth. Roosevelt was hunting elephants in Africa and I'm pretty sure they cut back on that.

I aint no tree hugger but I LOVE the outdoors and simply like seeing it being preserved, its usually the people that don't genuinely go outdoors except for "sport" that fuck things up........


Quote:

I don't feel that bad when I catch bluegill and accidentally hook their gills. Those ones will probably die. Maybe I feel bad a little, but bluegill are stupid. Consciousness is not a have or have-not kind of thing, it's definitely on a continuum. There are a lot of humans that I don't think are as conscious as other humans, just go look in the




wait.......you throw back blue gills that you catch..............those things are freaking delicious....and very stupid




Sportfisherman like myself don't just go out and catch and release everything we catch. I do keep fish for the table, I'm just selective about species, size and how many I keep because at the end of the day I have no control over what bites my bait or lure. Plus the reality is if I kept every fish I caught to eat - you would probably have just as big a problem as I would be taking a lot of fish out of the natural wildstocks. I fish a lot, and I catch a lot of fish.

The interesting thing here is that I don't think you have any idea why people catch and release fish, nor do you have much of an idea about the techniques and tackle that are used. If you did, you would feel much better about the people who catch and release fish and would have disdain for those who take home their maximum legal limit in fish in a day's fishing. From the moment they eat the bait/lure, those fish are treated far worse than any fish that I choose to catch and release.


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Jordy]
    #19182188 - 11/24/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jordy said:
The interesting thing here is that I don't think you have any idea why people catch and release fish, nor do you have much of an idea about the techniques and tackle that are used. If you did, you would feel much better about the people who catch and release fish and would have disdain for those who take home their maximum legal limit in fish in a day's fishing. From the moment they eat the bait/lure, those fish are treated far worse than any fish that I choose to catch and release.





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OfflineJordy
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: mylfgur]
    #19207389 - 11/30/13 05:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a question to those who think it's cruel to catch and release fish:

Let's say you have gone out for a day's fishing and you happen to get onto a really good bite. You catch your maximum legal limit that you can take home but the fish are still biting, do you pack up your stuff and go home or do you keep fishing and release fish??


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Invisiblejboredone
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Jordy]
    #19207406 - 11/30/13 05:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jordy said:
Here's a question to those who think it's cruel to catch and release fish:

Let's say you have gone out for a day's fishing and you happen to get onto a really good bite. You catch your maximum legal limit that you can take home but the fish are still biting, do you pack up your stuff and go home or do you keep fishing and release fish??



just because you enjoy fishing doesn't make it not cruel....who are you?....thats like a rapist saying that rape isn't that bad just because they like it.....It is cruel but it is widely excepted hobby......


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Invisiblejboredone
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: jboredone]
    #19207418 - 11/30/13 05:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It would be just like if a kid goes into the woods with his bb gun.....shoots anything he see's....might not kill the squirrel but maybe that little flesh wound gets infected and the squirrel dies a painful death..... :2cents:

ps...I go fishing but am not in denial that it is a little bit cruel....stop being in denial just because you enjoy it....:jah:


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In order to grow old and wise, you must once have been young and dumb!


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OfflineJordy
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: jboredone]
    #19207483 - 11/30/13 06:12 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not in denial about what I do and whether or not I enjoy it, I'm just more pro-active about doing as little harm as possible so that I can enjoy the sport whilst doing minimum harm to the fishery. As I have stated previously, I fish often and I catch a lot of fish. IMO killing all the fish I catch would be worse, so I rarely keep my entire legal limit, just enough to eat - so should I go home after only an hour of fishing when I have spent $100 for the day to go out on my boat? Is it not better to let those fish go back to reproduce? FYI I fish saltwater, the fish don't get infections unless the hooks aren't removed - which I have not had to do in years as I use circle hooks with the barbs crushed down. They only hook up in the jaw and they come out easily.


I think comparing fishing to rape and shooting animals is not a fair comparison to make at all, especially when a fish's nervous system is different to a mammal's and the fishing tackle industry has products for catch and release that take advantage of these natural designs to benefit the health of the fish. You'd be surprised how often fisherman have lead movements to help ensure the future of fisheries.


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OfflinePureless
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Jordy]
    #19207581 - 11/30/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why not worry about large scale commercial fishing that actually can deplete stocks of fish?

No, lets get angry at the dude bass fishing with his kid in a stocked pond :lol:


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OfflineJordy
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Pureless]
    #19286567 - 12/16/13 11:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Pureless said:
Why not worry about large scale commercial fishing that actually can deplete stocks of fish?

No, lets get angry at the dude bass fishing with his kid in a stocked pond :lol:




It can and is depleting many different wildstocks. Tuna are the obvious one, but in my home waters I watched commercial fishing dedicated to Yellowtail Kingfish nearly wipe out their population on the east coast of Australia. If you caught one, it was rare. Even more rare was catching one of legal size. Since the ban of commercial fishing for YK and the vast majority of Australian's choosing to treat them as a catch and release species, their numbers have improved to the point where we can go and target them in many areas and catch them until we can't catch anymore because our arms are hurting. I've tagged small kingfish and had them re-captured as well so it shows that our techniques for targetting them have very little impact.

This weekend I caught and released 10 Snapper up to 15lb and kept two for the table around 5lb. The funniest thing about this whole debate is that I get called a greeny or liar by what I call 'Family Freezer Filling-Fisherman' because I don't keep my entire bag limit.
I've caught plenty of trophy fish and kept them when I was younger, nowadays I want to catch those same fish but let them go back to continue to make more babies for me and my children to catch.

I'm the middle-man I suppose...


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Offliner00tuuu123
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Jordy]
    #19288693 - 12/17/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jordy said:
Quote:

Pureless said:
Why not worry about large scale commercial fishing that actually can deplete stocks of fish?

No, lets get angry at the dude bass fishing with his kid in a stocked pond :lol:




It can and is depleting many different wildstocks. Tuna are the obvious one, but in my home waters I watched commercial fishing dedicated to Yellowtail Kingfish nearly wipe out their population on the east coast of Australia. If you caught one, it was rare. Even more rare was catching one of legal size. Since the ban of commercial fishing for YK and the vast majority of Australian's choosing to treat them as a catch and release species, their numbers have improved to the point where we can go and target them in many areas and catch them until we can't catch anymore because our arms are hurting. I've tagged small kingfish and had them re-captured as well so it shows that our techniques for targetting them have very little impact.

This weekend I caught and released 10 Snapper up to 15lb and kept two for the table around 5lb. The funniest thing about this whole debate is that I get called a greeny or liar by what I call 'Family Freezer Filling-Fisherman' because I don't keep my entire bag limit.
I've caught plenty of trophy fish and kept them when I was younger, nowadays I want to catch those same fish but let them go back to continue to make more babies for me and my children to catch.

I'm the middle-man I suppose...


Jordy I'm with you on this I only keep a few for the table. My brother in law had a restaurant in the bahamas and he would not serve billfish. Granted marlin are tasty but even a 200 lb er would feed yo for close to a year.


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OfflineJordy
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #19291436 - 12/18/13 01:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Billfish are off the commercial target species list here in Australia, although they can still be caught and sold as 'by-catch' - something that I believe is a blanket disguise for longliners still being able to catch them. But you don't see them in fish markets as much any more, tuna are far more sought-after and big billfish are cheap fish that take up space in the holds.

I've only taken one fish in the last ten years, a small 165lb Striped Marlin that got hooked through it's eye and probably wouldn't have survived. So the decision was made to quicly Ika Jima the fish, bring it onboard, get it on ice and take it home. We're thinking of taking a fish in the next few months to smoke as Striped Marlin is excellent when it's smoked. It will probably be the only fish we will take for the next 5 years and it will be a juvenile fish of 150lb or less i.e. a non-breeding, abundant smaller fish. This is still far less damage to a fishery than commercial fisherman do in one shot.


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Offlinerev0kadavur
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Jordy]
    #19293703 - 12/18/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My BF and I use barb-less hooks... we cut the barbs off all our hooks.
Yes, more fish get off the hook, but we figure it helps level the playing field a little.
We eat what we catch unless its too small, sick looking or in cases that it swallowed the hook to the point it cant be retrieved with out it being very painful.

I think it is much better to catch your own than support fish farms and commercial fishing.

If you choose to eat meat, catching and hunting your own is the best option.

It also teaches you to appreciate the meat your eating more.

& I never feel good about killing them, but the quickest method is always the most humane.

However, I believe in energy and like to think the fish will just be reincarnated again, leaving us its organic nutrition behind...

I am also a big fan of Tibetan sky burials... I would like to become food for the animals when I die, So my body can return to the earth and benefit life... its a perpetual cycle.


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OfflineJordy
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: rev0kadavur]
    #19295736 - 12/18/13 11:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rev0kadavur said:
My BF and I use barb-less hooks... we cut the barbs off all our hooks.
Yes, more fish get off the hook, but we figure it helps level the playing field a little.
We eat what we catch unless its too small, sick looking or in cases that it swallowed the hook to the point it cant be retrieved with out it being very painful.

I think it is much better to catch your own than support fish farms and commercial fishing.

If you choose to eat meat, catching and hunting your own is the best option.

It also teaches you to appreciate the meat your eating more.

& I never feel good about killing them, but the quickest method is always the most humane.

However, I believe in energy and like to think the fish will just be reincarnated again, leaving us its organic nutrition behind...

I am also a big fan of Tibetan sky burials... I would like to become food for the animals when I die, So my body can return to the earth and benefit life... its a perpetual cycle.




That's awesome to see that you and your hubby are also thinking about the fish whilst still enjoying a great hobby. Next time you guys are at the tackle store, consider getting some circle hooks. Barbless hooks are easy to get out of fish, but as you pointed out they can still get hooked in the gills or guts. Circle hooks will only lodge into the corner of the mouth, causing no internal damage. Crush the barbs down on these and you will possibly have the perfect fishing hook.

Just need to remember to not set them like a normal hook, just let the fish swim off with the bait and once the rod is bent they will hook themselves. Most effective, eco-friendly and lazy way to fish!! hahaha


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InvisibleFuzzyShark
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Rockhound]
    #19332391 - 12/27/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Rockhound said:
few life forms are aware of their own mortality.




I wouldn't go as far to say that. Several mammals are definitely aware of there mortality when they see loved ones dies. Dogs, cats they know something is ending when they witness their loved ones pass away and when they see their relatives die and other animals die.
And also some animals just have so much pride; that when they know they're going to die they usually die with dignity.
I remember my old dog who was 15 right before he passed away from cancer he walked up on a sand hill stared back at me and I never saw him again. And another time when my black labrador was hit by a car and was bleeding to death on the side of the rode. I remember like it was yesterday she was gasping for her last breath and there was no chance of her making it with blood pouring of her ass and mouth... i pet her one last time and she wagged her tail...and so there was no other choice to put her out of her misery. Had to put her down by putting a bullet in her brain. I know I would want someone do do the same to me if I was in that position. hardest thing i've ever had to do because I really loved that dog.
I've seen other pets do this too they just have so much pride and don't fear their mortality as we do.

As far as fishing being cruel, I beg to differ, it's a relaxing hobby that requires skill and patience. I usually fish to eat but catch n release is great too. Fish have extremely high pain tolerances I doubt they even feel a hook. And besides there are literally billions of fish out there that are overpopulating the waters. Not to mention fish is healthy and tasteful as a delicacy.


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[gradient:#1D8C7C,#]“We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.”[/gradient]
—Old Talmudic saying


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InvisibleFuzzyShark
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Jordy]
    #19332416 - 12/27/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jordy said:
Quote:

tealeaf said:
Hey I'm all for fishing and do so myself, all I think is that its fucked up if all you do is catch and release. Would be the same thing as going out with an air rifle and wounding animals that you would never take home to eat.

Only in this day and age is that fucked up, the way we are consuming natural resources is leaving little for the future and polluting the earth enough to prevent future growth. Roosevelt was hunting elephants in Africa and I'm pretty sure they cut back on that.

I aint no tree hugger but I LOVE the outdoors and simply like seeing it being preserved, its usually the people that don't genuinely go outdoors except for "sport" that fuck things up........


Quote:

I don't feel that bad when I catch bluegill and accidentally hook their gills. Those ones will probably die. Maybe I feel bad a little, but bluegill are stupid. Consciousness is not a have or have-not kind of thing, it's definitely on a continuum. There are a lot of humans that I don't think are as conscious as other humans, just go look in the




wait.......you throw back blue gills that you catch..............those things are freaking delicious....and very stupid




Sportfisherman like myself don't just go out and catch and release everything we catch. I do keep fish for the table, I'm just selective about species, size and how many I keep because at the end of the day I have no control over what bites my bait or lure. Plus the reality is if I kept every fish I caught to eat - you would probably have just as big a problem as I would be taking a lot of fish out of the natural wildstocks. I fish a lot, and I catch a lot of fish.

The interesting thing here is that I don't think you have any idea why people catch and release fish, nor do you have much of an idea about the techniques and tackle that are used. If you did, you would feel much better about the people who catch and release fish and would have disdain for those who take home their maximum legal limit in fish in a day's fishing. From the moment they eat the bait/lure, those fish are treated far worse than any fish that I choose to catch and release.




Do you buy meat at the supermarket ? Do you know how they treat the chickens, turkey and throwing live pigs in boilers that have a nervous system.  Fish have such a high pain tolerance they don't even fill it. And there are more fish in the world than any other animal it's not like we're going to be seeing an extinction of fish anytime soon :smile:
I'd much rather eat a bluegill bream any day than that crap you buy at the supermarket. I would much rather kill my own venison in a humane quick way than to go buy pig eat they throw in live boilers at these farms. But what can we do not shit about it these are huge corporations. And plus it's not as if you catch them and suffocate the fish. You keep them on a stringer bucket of water so they can breathe. When you get ready to clean them for dinner knock them unconscious before you filet and they won't ever know what hit them.


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[gradient:#1D8C7C,#]“We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.”[/gradient]
—Old Talmudic saying


Edited by FuzzyShark (12/27/13 10:21 AM)


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OfflinePureless
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: FuzzyShark]
    #19332470 - 12/27/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

FuzzyShark said:Fish have such a high pain tolerance they don't even fill it.




I'm not sure if there's any evidence to support that. I have however seen studies that claim fish like trout have more nerve endings in their mouth when compared to say a stingray.


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InvisibleFuzzyShark
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Pureless]
    #19332581 - 12/27/13 11:09 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Pureless said:
Quote:

FuzzyShark said:Fish have such a high pain tolerance they don't even fill it.




I'm not sure if there's any evidence to support that. I have however seen studies that claim fish like trout have more nerve endings in their mouth when compared to say a stingray.




Don't get me wrong I am not saying they don't feel an ounce of pain but they have an incredible high tolerance for it. And unlike humans fish do not possess a neocortex, which is the first indicator of doubt regarding the pain awareness of fish.
Sharks and Rays, show a complete lack of these fibres and all bony fish, such as carp and trout they very rarely have them. In this case, the physiological prerequisites for a conscious experience of pain are hardly developed in fish.


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[gradient:#1D8C7C,#]“We do not see things as they are, we see them as we are.”[/gradient]
—Old Talmudic saying


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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa


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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: FuzzyShark]
    #19332673 - 12/27/13 11:36 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

How about the 70 people that just got bit by piranhas yesterday in Argentina.

:goodmorning:


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OfflinePureless
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #19332689 - 12/27/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Very strange indeed.

I hear about isolated events but never at this scale.

That's what you get for swimming in the "Parana River" :lol:


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Offlinerev0kadavur
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Pureless]
    #19333062 - 12/27/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Funny thing about the food chain... you take away our tools, devices, strip us down to nothing and see how much further down the food chain we end up...

Piranhas school in large numbers, they have razor sharp teeth and they are fast little muscles.... humans are no match when they catch on to a huge lump of tasty floatin' about. lol.


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Offlinerev0kadavur
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Jordy]
    #19333123 - 12/27/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Jordy said:
Quote:

rev0kadavur said:
My BF and I use barb-less hooks... we cut the barbs off all our hooks.
Yes, more fish get off the hook, but we figure it helps level the playing field a little.
We eat what we catch unless its too small, sick looking or in cases that it swallowed the hook to the point it cant be retrieved with out it being very painful.

I think it is much better to catch your own than support fish farms and commercial fishing.

If you choose to eat meat, catching and hunting your own is the best option.

It also teaches you to appreciate the meat your eating more.

& I never feel good about killing them, but the quickest method is always the most humane.

However, I believe in energy and like to think the fish will just be reincarnated again, leaving us its organic nutrition behind...

I am also a big fan of Tibetan sky burials... I would like to become food for the animals when I die, So my body can return to the earth and benefit life... its a perpetual cycle.




That's awesome to see that you and your hubby are also thinking about the fish whilst still enjoying a great hobby. Next time you guys are at the tackle store, consider getting some circle hooks. Barbless hooks are easy to get out of fish, but as you pointed out they can still get hooked in the gills or guts. Circle hooks will only lodge into the corner of the mouth, causing no internal damage. Crush the barbs down on these and you will possibly have the perfect fishing hook.

Just need to remember to not set them like a normal hook, just let the fish swim off with the bait and once the rod is bent they will hook themselves. Most effective, eco-friendly and lazy way to fish!! hahaha





We usually leave our poles until its obvious something is on the hook, we enjoy lazy fishing, leaves more time to just enjoy the scenery and relax... we seem to have very few stomached hooks... it happens very rarely, maybe once a year, usually when we get an aggressive fish that just came by and inhaled it... Rock fish are usually the ones that seem to do that where we fish most often... most the time our hooks get pecked clean by the perch.

The most friendly fishing seems to be trout, those fish are super intelligent.... i love going up to super clear mountain lakes and kayak fishing for trout... I can see them investigating my line and bait... often following it, swimming circles around it, gently nibbling and then leaving once they have gotten most the bait from around the hook, without taking it... my favorite are the giant brown trouts that hide out, then rush to see what you are, only to smack your line with their tail and swim back into their rock cave... I have been trying to catch this one guy for years, he is freakin' huge, and he only got that big because of many years of being a very smart fish... I see him every time I go up there, since about 5 years ago, under the same mass of rocks... it takes alot of coaxing just to get him to come out of his cave... but he is a sight to see when he does.... hes gotta be like 3 feet long and 8-10 inches thick..

Circle hooks is a good suggestion.... my BF had something to say about them, but I honestly forgot what he said.. something about the reason he doesn't like them.. lol...


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