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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 4 hours, 31 minutes
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Should this be legal??? Speak up America
#19205929 - 11/29/13 06:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The grabbing hand of the law
How prosecutors seize the assets of the innocent Nov 2nd 2013 | From the print edition
THE names of court cases usually make sense. Think of “US v Bernard Madoff” or “US v Timothy McVeigh”. What, then, is “US v $35,651.11”? Why is Uncle Sam prosecuting a heap of money?
The answer, alas, makes even less sense than the name on the docket. Terry Dehko and his daughter Sandy Thomas (pictured) run a grocery store in Fraser, Michigan. It sells everything from bread to hand-made sausages. Fairly often, someone takes cash from the till and puts it in the bank across the street. Deposits are nearly always less than $10,000, because the insurance covers the theft of cash only up to that sum.
In January, without warning, the government seized all the money in the shop account: more than $35,000. The charge was that the Dehkos had violated federal money-laundering rules, which forbid people to “structure” their bank deposits so as to avoid the $10,000 threshold that triggers banks to report a transaction to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
Prosecutors offered no evidence that the Dehkos were laundering money or dodging tax. Indeed, the IRS gave their business a clean bill of health last year. But still, the Dehkos cannot get their cash back. “They offered us 20%,” says Ms Thomas, “But if we settle, it looks like we’re guilty of something, which we’re not.”
In criminal cases, the government can confiscate assets only after a conviction. Under “civil forfeiture”, however, it can grab first and ask questions later. Property can be seized merely on the suspicion that it has been involved in a crime. Citizens have no right to a swift hearing. For a small business, that can be fatal. The Dehkos’ store is surviving by paying suppliers late.
In many civil-forfeiture cases the agencies that seize the assets keep most of the proceeds, and can use them to pad their budgets or buy faster patrol cars. It is hard to know how common this is, but the Institute for Justice (a libertarian law firm that is representing the Dehkos) notes that the federal government shared $450m of seized assets with state and local authorities in 2012.
The grabbers do not always prevail. A motel owner in Massachusetts recently won back his motel after prosecutors tried to seize it because one guest in 13,000 had been arrested for drug offences. In October in California, prosecutors who were trying to seize a building because two of the tenants were marijuana dispensaries (which are legal under Californian law), gave up and let the landlord keep it.
But this is scant comfort for the Dehkos, who are struggling to hold on to the store they have run since 1978. “It’s kind of scary that they can do this to you,” says Ms Thomas. “In America, you’re supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.”
What do you think?
Should there be a law preventing shit like this?
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Sell Your Soul
Nutmeg shaman


Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 40,819
Loc: Over there
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Patlal]
#19205935 - 11/29/13 06:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is what it is.
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unam sanctum



Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Sell Your Soul]
#19205948 - 11/29/13 06:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sell Your Soul said: It is what it is.


it's not what it isn't
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Sell Your Soul
Nutmeg shaman


Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 40,819
Loc: Over there
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: unam sanctum]
#19205954 - 11/29/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've always liked you.
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Sell Your Soul]
#19205957 - 11/29/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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but could it be what it should be?
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unam sanctum



Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Sell Your Soul]
#19205961 - 11/29/13 06:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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wayne brady likes his hoes, but he will choke a bitch
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Sell Your Soul
Nutmeg shaman


Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 40,819
Loc: Over there
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: unam sanctum]
#19205964 - 11/29/13 06:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I haven't seen that dude since that one game show he hosted. What was it - some singing thing? I forget.
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Mescalean
Burke is love, burke is life.


Registered: 01/18/12
Posts: 6,755
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Sell Your Soul]
#19205967 - 11/29/13 06:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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This actually disgusts me and frightens me as one career path I have been thinking about is opening my own business after I complete my education. Fucked up.
-------------------- FREE BURKE
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Sell Your Soul]
#19205988 - 11/29/13 06:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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unam sanctum



Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Sell Your Soul]
#19206003 - 11/29/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Sell Your Soul said: I haven't seen that dude since that one game show he hosted. What was it - some singing thing? I forget.
Drew Carey show? he might as well have hosted every episode he was in. he has a shitty agent I guess all he seems to get are third rate guest appearances in shows my parents watch.
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rackem



Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 14,024
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Patlal] 1
#19206025 - 11/29/13 07:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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well, lets just keep helping china out and make all the small business go bankrupt..
yea, that makes sense..
fuck these people. they should have bigger fish to fry than a measily 35k.
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Sell Your Soul
Nutmeg shaman


Registered: 03/15/00
Posts: 40,819
Loc: Over there
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: unam sanctum]
#19206032 - 11/29/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No, it was a show where people try to guess the lyrics to some song. Most of the contestants were awful.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Mescalean]
#19206046 - 11/29/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Yeah civil forfeiture is bullshit. I was listening to a radio show where this guy was talking about how they tried to seize this motel that he owned. The justification was that over the years drug deals had taken place in rooms in the motel. There was no evidence that the owner was complicit or aware of any of the activity, he was never charged or even accused of any crime, nothing. Just the fact that drug crimes had taken place on the property was enough for them to try to seize it.
After a long battle he succeeded in keeping the motel. I think his defense costs were something like $100k but they were ordered to reimburse that.
Edit: this was the show:
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2013/09/18/the-slippery-slope-of-civil-forfeiture/
Edited by psi (11/29/13 07:11 PM)
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unam sanctum



Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: Patlal]
#19206049 - 11/29/13 07:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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hey OP wanna post a link?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
Last seen: 4 hours, 31 minutes
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: unam sanctum] 1
#19206097 - 11/29/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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unam sanctum



Registered: 04/20/11
Posts: 6,702
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Re: Should this be legal??? Speak up America [Re: psi]
#19206099 - 11/29/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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worth a read
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman
"Washington, D.C., charges up to twenty-five hundred dollars simply for the right to challenge a police seizure in court, which can take months or even years to resolve."
if our nation's capitol city condones it it must be for our collective good
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