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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #19241020 - 12/07/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

yeah its not a completely socialist program, but its moving towards socialized medicine, which i don't like.


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Think for yourself, question authority


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #19241055 - 12/07/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
I see obama as more of a corporatist/crony capitalist. Although there are are a lot of socialist type programs he supports, Obamacare being one of them.




Yea i can agree with this is as well, I dont think Obamacare is any more socialist then SS or medicare.




Social Security and Medicare are by definition more socialist than the PPACA.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #19241063 - 12/07/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Reagan was never a Hollywood bigshot except when he was president of the actors' union.  Hollywood today is a disgraceful cesspool of leftist propaganda.  Just watch the product. It is obvious.




More like a fool who played ball with the McCarthyites and cost a lot of good people their jobs, Something i find like a inquisition, the House Committee on Un-American affairs, a ridiculous auto-de-fe which is the antithesis to whatever is free and true in this country, your buddy Reagan held water for McCarthy and presided over the most shameful chapter of the screen actors guild.McCarthy was correct that the State Department was riddled with communists.
Quote:



Your ignorance makes itself very apparent in calling Obama a "socialist" You toss that word around like you even know what it means, be my guest and give us a good description, or do you need to post another link from breitbart or bill'o the clowns website to reinforce your groupthink.




Spare me the nonsense, commmie.  Did you hear the socialist cunt's latest attempted distraction from his socialist health care debacle regarding income inequality?  He's a fucking socialist.
Quote:



Obama's policies are hardly socialist, lets see, has he done away with signature strikes which only create more islamofascists, nope.




What does that have to do with economic policy?
Quote:

Did he nationalize any institution?




He can't
Quote:

He could easily done that with GM but he didnt. Last i checked shoring up a private business is far from socialism.




No he couldn't and he didn't shore up GM, he rescued the UAW.  In fact he illegally interfered in a legitimate bankruptcy proceeding and totally fucked over the proper creditors to satisfy his collectivist union pals.
Quote:

In fact something like Obamacare was actually proposed under Nixon called the Health Insurance Reform Program, but i guess he was a big socialist.




You mean the Nixon of price controls?  Have you ever read a history book?
Quote:



Obama is not a socialist, he takes care of corporations, they love him, they have anointed him, he is controlled by special interests and big money, these things, are not ideal qualities of a socialist leader. If you level a charge at someone make sure its accurate, ad hominem repetitions of socialism make about as much sense as calling GWB a bleeding heart lib. Obama is just another center-right big business loving president.




"Ad hominem repititions of socialism".  Get a fucking dictionary and look up ad hominem.  Only a raving drooling commie qould think that Obama is anywhere rght of center.  Center of what?  Old SSRs?  You beclown yourself every time you come in here.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19241101 - 12/07/13 02:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

psyconaught said:
I see obama as more of a corporatist/crony capitalist. Although there are are a lot of socialist type programs he supports, Obamacare being one of them.




Yea i can agree with this is as well, I dont think Obamacare is any more socialist then SS or medicare.




Social Security and Medicare are by definition more socialist than the PPACA.




Most of soc sec isn't except for the disability part.  Your benefits are predicated on how much you paid in.  It is also a huge rip off as far as a retirement plan goes.  MediCare is but it is also a huge part of Obamacare.  Don't forget medicaid, which is welfare (i.e. socialist).  A huge percentage of people signing up are signing up for medicaid and another huge portion of people signing up are getting subsidies (i.e. socialism).

Another step toward national bummitude.  I don't see Obama as a crony capitalist.  I see him as a crony socialist who will grant favors to anybody who helps run this country into a socialist hellhole to satisfy his bum friends.


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 days, 31 minutes
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #19241229 - 12/07/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:

Reagan was never a Hollywood bigshot except when he was president of the actors' union.  Hollywood today is a disgraceful cesspool of leftist propaganda.  Just watch the product. It is obvious.




More like a fool who played ball with the McCarthyites and cost a lot of good people their jobs, Something i find like a inquisition, the House Committee on Un-American affairs, a ridiculous auto-de-fe which is the antithesis to whatever is free and true in this country, your buddy Reagan held water for McCarthy and presided over the most shameful chapter of the screen actors guild.

Your ignorance makes itself very apparent in calling Obama a "socialist" You toss that word around like you even know what it means, be my guest and give us a good description, or do you need to post another link from breitbart or bill'o the clowns website to reinforce your groupthink.

Obama's policies are hardly socialist, lets see, has he done away with signature strikes which only create more islamofascists, nope. Did he nationalize any institution? He could easily done that with GM but he didnt. Last i checked shoring up a private business is far from socialism. In fact something like Obamacare was actually proposed under Nixon called the Health Insurance Reform Program, but i guess he was a big socialist.

Obama is not a socialist, he takes care of corporations, they love him, they have anointed him, he is controlled by special interests and big money, these things, are not ideal qualities of a socialist leader. If you level a charge at someone make sure its accurate, ad hominem repetitions of socialism make about as much sense as calling GWB a bleeding heart lib. Obama is just another center-right big business loving president.


:whathesaid:

Well said, Obama's rhetoric is socialist, but his governing is not.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: qman]
    #19241430 - 12/07/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Bullshit.  His governance is exactly as socialist as he can make it.


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
Through Brass
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19246314 - 12/08/13 05:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I predict Buisness ko's government in late rounds.


--------------------
Lord_Senate: Pedophiles, rapists and everything in between.

pastywhyte said: I'm not going to rush, I believe crow is best served cold.

AhabMcBathsalts said: This is why democracy doesn't work. Because idiots like this get a fucking vote.


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
Last seen: 8 days, 15 hours
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19246891 - 12/08/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And may your god help us if they do. The only thing worst then Big Government is Big Business.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: sweeper54] * 1
    #19246895 - 12/08/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

big business doesn't have the ability to lock you in a box at the point of a gun like big government.


--------------------
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InvisibleRoger Wilco
Rusted Identifier

Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 970
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19247219 - 12/08/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

ohhhhh shit, both the government puppet, and the business puppet, are on the two opposing hands of the same guy!!! ohhh shit!


synarchy.


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
Posts: 2,865
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Roger Wilco]
    #19248961 - 12/09/13 06:55 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

No but they can lock the government in a box and point a "We'll PRIMARY YOU" gun at them.


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Offlineviktor
psychotechnician
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Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19249005 - 12/09/13 07:16 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
big business doesn't have the ability to lock you in a box at the point of a gun like big government.




That's only because big government made slavery illegal. Big business was doing it all the time up until then.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: viktor]
    #19249625 - 12/09/13 11:18 AM (10 years, 1 month ago)

preventing slavery is not big government. Preventing slavery is one of the duties a small government should be responsible for, the fact that slavery existed simply showed that government was negligent, not that it needed to be bigger.

Fun Fact: Historically democrats were associated with racism and the kkk


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19249870 - 12/09/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

And the all changed in the 60's with LBJ and then the bigots went to the republican'ts.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: sweeper54]
    #19249899 - 12/09/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

If you think racism only exists on one side of the political spectrum you must be extremely foolish.


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InvisibleRoger Wilco
Rusted Identifier

Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 970
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19250074 - 12/09/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Is the false left(government) right(business)paradigm so difficult to see?

The false dichotomy is the stage; set, leaving only the details to be inserted to attract intellectual devotees of their era. The louder the people chant for one or the other side, the deeper the cultural entrenchment into the false left/right paradigm becomes.

Or at least this is how it all appears to me!


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Offlineviktor
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Posts: 4,293
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Roger Wilco]
    #19250105 - 12/09/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Roger Wilco said:
Is the false left(government) right(business)paradigm so difficult to see?

The false dichotomy is the stage; set, leaving only the details to be inserted to attract intellectual devotees of their era. The louder the people chant for one or the other side, the deeper the cultural entrenchment into the false left/right paradigm becomes.

Or at least this is how it all appears to me!




This spells it out - and I agree with you.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlinesweeper54
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Registered: 11/07/12
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19250161 - 12/09/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

psyconaught said:
If you think racism only exists on one side of the political spectrum you must be extremely foolish.





No I don't, but when out right bigots like Helms swaps parties and that same party 50 years later is doing everything in its power to keep minors from voting, I say the vast majority of the bigots are reupblican'ts.


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Roger Wilco]
    #19250291 - 12/09/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Roger Wilco said:
Is the false left(government) right(business)paradigm so difficult to see?

The false dichotomy is the stage; set, leaving only the details to be inserted to attract intellectual devotees of their era. The louder the people chant for one or the other side, the deeper the cultural entrenchment into the false left/right paradigm becomes.

Or at least this is how it all appears to me!



what sort of system do you propose? I ask not as an attack but as a legitimate curiosity.


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InvisibleRoger Wilco
Rusted Identifier

Registered: 06/08/13
Posts: 970
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19250292 - 12/09/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

The
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Bullshit.  His governance is exactly as socialist as he can make it.




For the purposes of this thread, I think it would serve to use common definitions.

I will pull up some definition to start. If we cannot agree on the Webster's definitions, hopefully we can find more suitable terms to use as common grounds.

Some people see "Socialism" as a good thing, and some see it as a bad thing. Quite often their concepts of the word are not congruent with one another, therefore it is easy for disagreements to arise in any discussion where it's meaning is implied.


According to websters:

Capitalism:
"an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market"

Private ownership of capital goods does not occur in modern western civilliazation legally. If you don't beleive me, check your tax bracket. It is a collective ownership, as the collective takes some of your money on all of you earning and purchases. The distribution of goods, prices, and production, are all regulated or affected by regulation in virtually all industries.

Socialism: "a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies"

To me, that sounds like the USA under both major parties. This definition is broad enough to include more definite forms for example "Corporatism". Corporatist synarchy are good descriptive words for today's system, yet does not fully describe it. Corporatism has aspects of capitalism, and aspects of collectivism

Also according to Websters

Socialism: "a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done"

This is ominous! I sure hope he's wrong! The collectivism of today, in Marxist theory, seems to slant towards outright to

from Websters

Communism:  "a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably:


SCARY! I sure hope he was wrong! Who gets to redistribute the wealth? The Nuclear Class submarines? Who get's to redistribute the rare earth metals?

From Websters
Communism: "a theory advocating elimination of private property
b :  a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed"

Who gets to be ration things out based on need? Sounds like he who has the biggest stick gets all the grub.


Sometimes when people see socialized medicine, libraries, roads, they associate the word "socialism" with their security and comfort. Other people recognize the word in association with collectivization.

I hope people realize that all of these isms and concepts are just isms and concepts, and don't really reflect our situation. I hope we can focus on describing out world and its situation honestly. Clarity is key.

Also

"As a philosopher and mystic Saint-Yves drew upon many esoteric systems, from both East and West, in developing his ideas. Developed in the early 1870's, Synarchy proposed "government by an elite of enlightened initiates". This was to be a world government  forming one institute which would govern humanity based on the highest spiritual and social fundamentals. Synarchy was to be more than a purely political movement, it was to be sensitive to the history and evolution of the human race, changing and developing a "social law" that would  evolve with humanity...........Synarchy is a " FORM OF GOVERNMENT BASED ON 'PRINCIPLES', in contrast with 'Anarchy'. In 'Synarchy' a social entity is lead by an Authority. The Authority controls RELIGION, ARMY, and EDUCATION. "

Interesting!!!!


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