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OfflineEddYerb
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? *DELETED* [Re: Echro] * 1
    #19461037 - 01/23/14 05:38 AM (10 years, 8 days ago)

Post deleted by EddYerb

Reason for deletion: Want to remove


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InvisibleEchro
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Registered: 04/25/13
Posts: 390
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: EddYerb]
    #19461541 - 01/23/14 09:02 AM (10 years, 8 days ago)

I don't prescribe to that mindset. You don't have to if your understanding of economics isn't limited to Smith, Marx, or Keynes. The market method of production is the only system capable of producing & supplying goods relative to the demand for them. Do you really believe the only way this is possible is through slashing & burning a finite world?
If you were a wood supplier, possessing say one hundred acres of forest, would you cut it all down & sell it at once? Now you're out a forest & a job. Only a company with no interest in the stock value of the property they own would do this. Most cut & run examples of deforestation is the result of the government, not a company, owning the forest, & leasing it's logging rights out to a company with no interest in the upkeep of it's stock value. Most cases of environmental waste are the result of government privilege that allows companies to externalize costs.
Don't want a world of waste? Remove, hinder, restrict & cripple subsidy & privilege everywhere it exists. These two things are the greatest friends to waste. They're the only thing that can prop up a backwards system for any period of time. Markets incentivize long term investment & cost cutting if any serious company wants to maintain a steady cash flow.

As for competition vs. cooperation, let it first be understood competition is largely an economic term understood properly, objectively, the end result is cooperation. Competition is but a means to fine tune economic efficiency & proper allocation of resources, the only way this is possible is through the voluntary cooperation of all the members involved.

Despite it's cheesiness the video illustrates the point I'm trying to iterate, the Spontaneous Order that is produced through the cooperation fostered & necessitated by the market apparatus. Market Societies by far are more civil & cooperative than anything short of being commanded & dictated by a central planning committee.
It's worth noting that market societies are more charitable with their money as well. The more wealth a society has the less greedy it has to be with it. People tend not to have the time to worry about charity, excess & guilt when they're starving to death.


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: EddYerb]
    #19461845 - 01/23/14 10:24 AM (10 years, 8 days ago)

Quote:

EddYerb said:
Is capital not one of the main barriers to entry?

Industries such as the energy sector require huge amounts of capital to set up, as well as plenty of other businesses.

Yes people can compete in theory, but if a company did hold a monopoly, which I believe would be very likely with certain key services (supermarket chains/ energy suppliers/ logistics companies), they could use their position to ensure no competitors enter the market.

Now I'm still not quite sure of the extent to which you guys don't want government regulations but I assume you don't want regulations on advertising? Through advertising and other means a company can well establish and keep a monopoly, to the detriment of the price of the product etc.

And I mean also, at the end of the day, it's incredibly irrational and wasteful for the world to be organised in this way. If everybody worked in cooperation, rather than competition, this world would be a much nicer place for everybody. Who really wants to work in an office job, analysing potential trends in the market for some bread company that offers exactly the same product as all other providers.

Material wealth is nothing compared to the wealth of family, friends and nature, which is free and easily attainable and potentially attainable for everyone. Material wealth is relative and insatiable and, by definition, can only be enjoyed by a few.

Fairplay if you think that the potential for vast material wealth for one person is more important than communal wealth and cooperation in overcoming the problems of inhabiting such a  finite planet.

Because, at the end of the day, that is the mindset you have to prescribe to if you propose completely unbridled and unregulated capitalism.




yes, de regulate everything but the fair labour laws


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Loc: Rio Lobo
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: imachavel]
    #19462284 - 01/23/14 12:14 PM (10 years, 7 days ago)

Business and I have a beneficial and symbiotic relationship.

big government is like HPV, once you catch it there's nothing you can do except hope you don't bump up and continue on with life


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19462894 - 01/23/14 02:38 PM (10 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
Quote:

I called the entirety of the left dingbats, not you per se.




If you consider him/her left wing, and call all of them "dingbats," than you are calling that user a "left wing dingbat."

Quote:

Corporations are not beholden to act in the consumer's best interest




No, they aren't.  Do you want a cookie?

Quote:

It is not their responsibility to look out for your interests.  It is their responsibility to look out for their owner's best interests.  It is YOUR responsibility to look out for your best interests which can only be determined by YOU.  Or your Momma.  Expecting them to give a shit about you beyond how they can get you to buy their shit is precisely left wing, nanny state propaganda.




It's so funny how you talk about other people's parents covering their expenses, all while you pay your two children's entire expenses.  You call other people living off their parent's dime "leaches," yet you have paid every bill your children have ever been billed.



All lefties are by definition dingbats because it has been tried over and over again and every time it collapses.  Perhaps I should just refer to them as insane.

:picard:They're in school, there are three of them involved and no we don't pay all of their expenses.  Every one of them has a merit scholarship.


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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19469842 - 01/24/14 10:38 PM (10 years, 6 days ago)

Actually, corporations generally do have to work in the public's best interest. If said corporation did something particularly heinous that drew negative attention to the company, that business is going to suffer.

It is important that we have some type of regulatory laws, especially environmental, and we have to weigh the risks and the pro's of the project, If a pipe bursts oil in the gulf, then that puts a economic dent on shrimpers, fishermen and others who make their living off the environment. If only their was a way to regulate, but not force, maybe make incentives for business to go cleaner and put out less pollutants.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19469848 - 01/24/14 10:39 PM (10 years, 6 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
All lefties are by definition dingbats because it has been tried over and over again and every time it collapses.  Perhaps I should just refer to them as insane.

:picard:They're in school, there are three of them involved and no we don't pay all of their expenses.  Every one of them has a merit scholarship.




Just like colonialism and greed has been tried over and over again and every time it collapses as well.

:picard:

I want to believe you're more intelligent than this.


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Offlineimachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #19471468 - 01/25/14 10:56 AM (10 years, 5 days ago)

anyone in favour of replacing minimum wage laws with collective bargaining laws that cover everyone?

"Switzerland, as a country, actually does not have a minimum wage written into law. It does have collective bargaining agreements between its workers and management and almost the entire population is covered by it. The minimum salary of skilled workers ranges from 2,800 to 5,300 Swiss francs, while that of unskilled workers may be anywhere between 2,200 to 4,200 Swiss francs."

http://www.therichest.com/business/the-top-10-countries-with-the-highest-minimum-wages/

Or is that just another sour form of regulation replacing current sour form of regulations? How about it, can anyone here be a man and compromise?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: imachavel]
    #19471570 - 01/25/14 11:30 AM (10 years, 5 days ago)

Going along with a stupid idea is compromise?

Huh.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineHappy Littletree
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Registered: 01/02/14
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19471617 - 01/25/14 11:40 AM (10 years, 5 days ago)



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Invisiblemyc_check1212
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Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 4,545
Loc: Rio Lobo
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Happy Littletree]
    #19471741 - 01/25/14 12:03 PM (10 years, 5 days ago)

The solution to American socioeconomic friction should come from in house, not some leftist European model. American solutions for American problems


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: myc_check1212] * 1
    #19471828 - 01/25/14 12:17 PM (10 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
The solution to American socioeconomic friction should come from in house, not some leftist European model. American solutions for American problems



:billymaythumbup:
you can hardly compare a country with 8 million people to a country with 300 million.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
    #19471997 - 01/25/14 12:52 PM (10 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:
Actually, corporations generally do have to work in the public's best interest. If said corporation did something particularly heinous that drew negative attention to the company, that business is going to suffer.




They are allowed to fuck their business up all they want to.
Quote:



It is important that we have some type of regulatory laws, especially environmental, and we have to weigh the risks and the pro's of the project, If a pipe bursts oil in the gulf, then that puts a economic dent on shrimpers, fishermen and others who make their living off the environment. If only their was a way to regulate, but not force, maybe make incentives for business to go cleaner and put out less pollutants.




This is why we have a torts system where you can sue the living shit out of somebody who causes you harm.  There are millions of those suits occurring at any given time.


--------------------


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: imachavel]
    #19472005 - 01/25/14 12:53 PM (10 years, 5 days ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
anyone in favour of replacing minimum wage laws with collective bargaining laws that cover everyone?

"Switzerland, as a country, actually does not have a minimum wage written into law. It does have collective bargaining agreements between its workers and management and almost the entire population is covered by it. The minimum salary of skilled workers ranges from 2,800 to 5,300 Swiss francs, while that of unskilled workers may be anywhere between 2,200 to 4,200 Swiss francs."

http://www.therichest.com/business/the-top-10-countries-with-the-highest-minimum-wages/

Or is that just another sour form of regulation replacing current sour form of regulations? How about it, can anyone here be a man and compromise?



I'll support collective bargaining for employees when employers get the same right.


--------------------


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Offlinestarfire_xes
I Am 'They'
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: imachavel]
    #19472602 - 01/25/14 03:18 PM (10 years, 5 days ago)

How many people live in Switzerland?
What is the average educational level of those people?
Do they let millions of unskilled workers in that keep down the wages of the low-paying jobs by creating a surplus of workers?


--------------------


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Offlinerobbinbanks
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: pretzelking]
    #19475906 - 01/26/14 09:25 AM (10 years, 5 days ago)

Big companies screw the common man through coercion and the govt. This can not happen in a frre market. When you say you believe in a little regulation its like saying im ok with a little corrosion. Govt shoult only be for courts, police, and national defense. The govt is created by wealth and the people, govt doesnt create wealth.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19476256 - 01/26/14 11:21 AM (10 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Going along with a stupid idea is compromise?

Huh.




so what's a better idea? In this world where high prices stop true economic growth e.g. houses sell for WAY too high and one family moves into it for 900k instead of each family member getting their own house for 200k, and 1.2 million in houses would be sold instead, simply because of 30 year mortgages and what people are WILLING TO PAY FOR, you would prefer all the hard working labourers ahem I mean "bums" to continue working at a poverty level and no real money being distributed and only high level corporations earning the profit simply because it's POSSIBLE that "people will work harder then they are now, instead of 55 hours a week they will work 85 hours a week, show they are more skilled and earn more and have better lives"? :smirk:

Do you realize The Netherlands has a minimum wage at equivalent $23,000 per year and no drug laws?

http://www.therichest.com/business/the-top-10-countries-with-the-highest-minimum-wages/10/

Do you honestly think the United States is still the most liberal and progressive company now? Maybe we are because of a monopoly on international trading over the last 50 something years but I see a great trend of improvement in quality of life in socialist countries in Europe, especially compared to how well the countries were 50 years ago let's say in 1954. Back in the day socialism was a sour cut on the face of the world often compared to communism. Today it may not at all be the high quality of life here in the U.S. but if it keeps improving at the rate it's been especially compared to how it was a long time ago, it could very well be a system of government much better then what we call capitalism.

I will admit that Europe barely has the liberal business policies in general the U.S. has, it's not as easy to start a business there and have a huge chain of Burger Kings one day, but that may one day change if things keep improving at the pace they are improving at over there


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: myc_check1212]
    #19476284 - 01/26/14 11:28 AM (10 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

myc_check1212 said:
The solution to American socioeconomic friction should come from in house, not some leftist European model. American solutions for American problems




like what? The same solutions mentioned over and over again that have helped our country face similar problems in the past and over come them that everyone keeps arguing will turn our country into a socialist bullshit economy?

When will it become obvious? Look at Obama care, it helps the unaffordable afford health care, but people could AFFORD health care if medical facilities charged less, but oh no to regulate that we'd have to stoop down to wage caps, saying a doctor can only charge $900,000 for a surgery and never over a million would be like socialist bullshit blah blah

One day this country is going to go from $17 trillion debt to $27 trillion with this Obama Care plan shit, everyone will try and use it, and they'll get blamed for being bums that can't afford to "pay higher" for getting themselves fixed when they fuck up their health. Is that what "bums" do as well? They aren't as motivated as the rest of society and shouldn't be allowed good treatment? I agree Obama Care is not an answer it's not addressing the issue of how high the cost of care is and therefore how high the cost of insurance is, it's just Obama putting up half the cost of getting care with everyone else's money that doesn't exist in any form besides debt any more anyway.

If a new currency is introduced, it could devalue a lot of things and create hyperinflation etc. How are we far behind Europe's crisis? Europe's crisis supersedes ours simply because Europe doesn't have the credibility of services vs debt that we do, we have as much debt as anybody we just have better contingencies against financial crisis then they do e.g. bail outs and borrowing trillions from China etc.


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19476313 - 01/26/14 11:35 AM (10 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

The_Red_Crayon said:


It is important that we have some type of regulatory laws, especially environmental, and we have to weigh the risks and the pro's of the project, If a pipe bursts oil in the gulf, then that puts a economic dent on shrimpers, fishermen and others who make their living off the environment. If only their was a way to regulate, but not force, maybe make incentives for business to go cleaner and put out less pollutants.




This is why we have a torts system where you can sue the living shit out of somebody who causes you harm.  There are millions of those suits occurring at any given time.




and of course to win a lawsuit you need to have a good lawyer that you can pay a ton of money. Same bullshit as always poor idiots get thrown against the wall, people with millions can get away with murder. Our legal system is more manipulated then OJ Simpsons trail, oh wait........... no it's not they are two sides of the same coin

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

imachavel said:
anyone in favour of replacing minimum wage laws with collective bargaining laws that cover everyone?

"Switzerland, as a country, actually does not have a minimum wage written into law. It does have collective bargaining agreements between its workers and management and almost the entire population is covered by it. The minimum salary of skilled workers ranges from 2,800 to 5,300 Swiss francs, while that of unskilled workers may be anywhere between 2,200 to 4,200 Swiss francs."

http://www.therichest.com/business/the-top-10-countries-with-the-highest-minimum-wages/

Or is that just another sour form of regulation replacing current sour form of regulations? How about it, can anyone here be a man and compromise?



I'll support collective bargaining for employees when employers get the same right.




They do have the same right. It's called the free market they can do whatever the fuck they want, set whatever prices they want, hire or fire as many people as they want. Europe doesn't even HAVE the same liberal system of business laws e.g. "free market" rituals we have and still employees are more fair paid, are you telling me it'd be a more terrible situation in this country? Give up minimum wage pay or give up collective bargaining and raise the minimum wage, I don't see how you can have your cake and eat it too

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
How many people live in Switzerland?
What is the average educational level of those people?
Do they let millions of unskilled workers in that keep down the wages of the low-paying jobs by creating a surplus of workers?




I thought that was supposed to be a bad thing everyone in this country was complaining about that nobody wants anymore? Are you saying we should let everyone over the fence now to set a better model against everyone else?


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlinepsyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: imachavel]
    #19476344 - 01/26/14 11:41 AM (10 years, 4 days ago)

Quote:

They do have the same right. It's called the free market they can do whatever the fuck they want, set whatever prices they want, hire or fire as many people as they want



bull shit. We have nothing close to a free market in this country. There are countless regulations depending on the industry telling you what you can or cannot charge for your service/product. And it is extremely difficult to actually fire someone once hired.


--------------------
Think for yourself, question authority


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