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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views?
    #19205228 - 11/29/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I hear lots of talk about the need for governement regulation and control.  So I want to ask:

Who planted the idea in your mind (if it is in your mind) that businesses are automatically evil, profiteering entities led by tools with big mustaches and fat cigars hanging out of their mouths, and that their profits are evil and unfair, and that by God, they fuck over the average joe

AND:

the benign, helpful, awesome, Government has the answers and is the savior? :smirk:


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OfflineShroomhunter510
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19205352 - 11/29/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I see it like this : A company like FEDEx who is privately owned has the authority to look through any  package they decide too  for what ever reason because  the only incentive they need is for the package to in their hands and on their property  . so  up until the item  you paid for  arrives at  your door step , FedEx can do what ever they want with your package. They can loose it , take it home , do what ever.  And just becaus you paid for their service you put your responsibility into the delvery mans hands as if he  can be trusted.

If the postal service ( goverment ) were to snoop through people's mail and were caught they would have.a million dollar lawsuit on their hands and everything would be up in flames. I wonder on average how many daily packages are lost through FedEx.


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Shroomhunter510]
    #19205513 - 11/29/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There is nothing inherently wrong with making a profit.  There is nothing inherently wrong with government regulations and controls.


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Offlinepretzelking
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Shroomhunter510] * 1
    #19205540 - 11/29/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My personal view is that government does tend to interfere with business growth with certain regulations. From my limited macro-economics knowledge I would assume that some regulations probably do deter certain business opportunities.

I would also caution that no regulations leads to very bad situation for the common man. Look at the robber baron era for example. That was the reason we had a socialist movement in the turn of the century was because big companies were screwing the common man hard.

So I think regulations are needed, but I don't think we need to regulate to much. There has to be a reasonable middle ground that both protects people and the environment and also fosters a healthy economic climate. For example, what if we let landfills dump waste directly into a hole with no protective barrier? You would get polluted ground water in the surrounding area. On the other hand I think something as little as changing the tax code so an employer doesn't have to pay half the employees social security/medicare taxes could be a step in the right direction. Worker's comp is also a huge rip off also. If it wasn't for those two things I would maybe consider adding a employee or two in my own business.

And no I don't believe businesses are inherently evil or corrupt. As I also don't believe government is evil or corrupt. But both and be so at times.


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Shroomhunter510]
    #19205678 - 11/29/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Shroomhunter510 said:
I see it like this : A company like FEDEx who is privately owned has the authority to look through any  package they decide too  for what ever reason because  the only incentive they need is for the package to in their hands and on their property  . so  up until the item  you paid for  arrives at  your door step , FedEx can do what ever they want with your package. They can loose it , take it home , do what ever.  And just becaus you paid for their service you put your responsibility into the delvery mans hands as if he  can be trusted.

If the postal service ( goverment ) were to snoop through people's mail and were caught they would have.a million dollar lawsuit on their hands and everything would be up in flames. I wonder on average how many daily packages are lost through FedEx.





Great.  then don't use FED EX. :smirk:


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: pretzelking]
    #19205685 - 11/29/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
There is nothing inherently wrong with making a profit.  There is nothing inherently wrong with government regulations and controls.



Quote:

pretzelking said:
My personal view is that government does tend to interfere with business growth with certain regulations. From my limited macro-economics knowledge I would assume that some regulations probably do deter certain business opportunities.

I would also caution that no regulations leads to very bad situation for the common man. Look at the robber baron era for example. That was the reason we had a socialist movement in the turn of the century was because big companies were screwing the common man hard.

So I think regulations are needed, but I don't think we need to regulate to much. There has to be a reasonable middle ground that both protects people and the environment and also fosters a healthy economic climate. For example, what if we let landfills dump waste directly into a hole with no protective barrier? You would get polluted ground water in the surrounding area. On the other hand I think something as little as changing the tax code so an employer doesn't have to pay half the employees social security/medicare taxes could be a step in the right direction. Worker's comp is also a huge rip off also. If it wasn't for those two things I would maybe consider adding a employee or two in my own business.

And no I don't believe businesses are inherently evil or corrupt. As I also don't believe government is evil or corrupt. But both and be so at times.





I more or less agree with both those posts.  However, the question becomes:  How much regulation is enough?  And who regulates the regulators?


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19206000 - 11/29/13 06:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Neither of those questions have definitive answers.

The IG is supposed to regulate the regulators, but do you want massive bureaucracy going through multiple levels of regulation or as few people as possible working?

As far as "How much regulation is enough?" well, there is no way to know until the regulation becomes too toxic for the markets.  There are plenty of qualified individuals who can figure that out, I'm not one of them.

If people and corporations could self-regulate, based on the opinion of the populace, well, then we wouldn't need government regulators.  Unfortunately it has been proven time, and time again, that self-regulation does not work.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Mush4Brains] * 1
    #19206823 - 11/29/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I disagree, the governments and business' should work for the people, not vice versa, ever imo.


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OfflineEddYerb
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? *DELETED* [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19207909 - 11/30/13 09:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by EddYerb

Reason for deletion: Want to remove


Edited by EddYerb (11/30/13 09:29 AM)


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: EddYerb] * 1
    #19208254 - 11/30/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

, for capitalism to work there are winners and losers.



This is simply not true. Obviously there are losers. But that is directly due to the actions of the individual. The great thing about capitalism is that anyone can win, the fairest course of action is to simply put everyone on an equal footing as far as opportunity goes. Don't hold anyone back, thats the "fairest". Wealth is not a zero sum game.


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OfflineEddYerb
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? *DELETED* [Re: psyconaught] * 2
    #19208412 - 11/30/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by EddYerb

Reason for deletion: Want to remove


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: EddYerb]
    #19208435 - 11/30/13 12:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i was talking about a capitalist nation. Not a worldwide scale with other government systems. Obviously if someone is born into a fascist dictatorship they will be at a disadvantage no matter how hard they work. I was referring to america though, we do not have slums here. If everyone is given equal opportunity then that is the absolute fairest system you can have. Giving people things will not help, allowing people to make their own choices un hindered is 'fair'


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Offlinestarfire_xes
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: EddYerb]
    #19209024 - 11/30/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EddYerb said:
It is a multitude of factors that made me believe that a lot of big businesses conduct themselves in an unethical and sometimes thoroughly evil way, but not all businesses.






Give me specific examples and lets look at that.


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OfflineBig_Dave
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: starfire_xes] * 1
    #19209892 - 11/30/13 07:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I dont see why this is so confusing for some. The whole point of free trade aka capitalism is that both sides of each transaction have to be winners or it wont happen. Businesses cant screw me over( outside of fraud of coarse), because im the one that spends my money. The only organisation that I deal with where both parties to the transaction arent benefited is the government. I certainly dont feel that they spend my money better than I would.  About slums in america, they exist to a degree but the people that live there are there because they DON'T work.  A lot of these people dont even get dressed in the morning because they're to lazy to leave the house.  The middle class is full of people that work everyday and make a livable wage. The comfort level of the average joe in america usually comes down to how well they manage what they make. The rich on the other hand, from what I can tell from meeting them and working for them, in most cases are there because they work nearly constantly AND are generally the smartest person in the room where ever they go. As far as I can tell getting rich is something to be admired as its usually achieved by smart people that are both reasonable and efficient.

I feel like I'm starting to ramble but i guess the real question is why the fuck is everybody obsessed with how much money OTHER people have. And then their justification to go in and STEAL it is because its just not fair.  They dont realize that when they steal money from the rich, they also steal my opportunity for them to buy my services with that money.


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OfflineBig_Dave
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Big_Dave]
    #19209904 - 11/30/13 07:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And is europe really cleaner because of more regulation? I've heard you cant even drink the tap water there...


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Offlinepretzelking
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: Big_Dave]
    #19210860 - 12/01/13 12:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Big_Dave said:
And is europe really cleaner because of more regulation? I've heard you cant even drink the tap water there...




I've heard the rate of unemployment is over 25% for most people in their lower twenties also. Would appear I am much better off in America in my opinion. At least I can go make a job.


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Offlinepsyconaught
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: pretzelking]
    #19211729 - 12/01/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

About slums in america, they exist to a degree



i agree with everything in your post except for this. Even the poorest people in America still exist in the top 10% of of world.


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OfflineBig_Dave
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: psyconaught]
    #19211858 - 12/01/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah thats why I said to a degree. In the inner cities they still get to have their xbox360's, beats by dre headphones, and the latest $300 pair of Jordans while living on subsidies.  There are some pretty shitty rural areas as well but they've got access to welfare just like everyone else.


Edited by Big_Dave (12/01/13 10:47 AM)


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Offlinesweeper54
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19212439 - 12/01/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

EddYerb said:
It is a multitude of factors that made me believe that a lot of big businesses conduct themselves in an unethical and sometimes thoroughly evil way, but not all businesses.






Give me specific examples and lets look at that.




Here's one of the worst, Monsanto


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Government Vs. Business What Are Your Views? [Re: sweeper54]
    #19212698 - 12/01/13 01:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Monsanto, helping to feed the poor all over the world.  You and Darryl Hannah?  Not so much.


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