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Invisible36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19202731 - 11/28/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't like much about wheat except for the decent nutrient content and the fact that it's a single grain, so prep can be consistent.

Your problem prepping millet is trying to follow a TEK that's not designed for millet. It's not a commonly used grain, there's no good TEK for it. I've had luck soaking it for 24 hours in hot water, changing the water every few hours to keep it relatively hot, then draining on a towel in frony of a fan till the outside is dry.

If you don't feel confident in knowing how to hydrate a specific grain, I suggest you stick with RR or FH's TEKs. Prep enough WBS and watch the different ingredients and you'll be able to move to other grains with no problems. Once you work with enough different brands of WBS (a lot of which you won't like) you'll figure out how to hydrate each specific grain. They all have different mixes.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflinePsilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19202744 - 11/28/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
IMO, the only grains worth using are rye, milo, millet and to a lesser extent wheat. As RR said, any cereal grain works but some are better than others.




Just curious what it is about wheat you like... to a lesser extent?

Also wonder how you prep millet?  My first try I only simmered for 10min and most of the grains exploded, after PC it was a mess.  Actually it still colonized and worked (black poplar) but was difficult to break up due to all the mush.




Most of us here in Cultivation bring our WBS (mostly millet, but of course you knew that) up to a boil and then immediately remove it from the heat and strain out all the grain as quickly as we can. 

It's good to see you here in Cult, Forrester.  I've missed seeing your picture thread about what's going on at your house over in G&E, and I often whip out that picture of your sideways ganoderma monotub as an example of what a really awesome reishi grow can look like.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202749 - 11/28/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Personally I never simmer millet. I just soak it longer than rye. Even a hint of a simmer causes millet to explode IME.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Psilicon]
    #19202766 - 11/28/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
IMO, the only grains worth using are rye, milo, millet and to a lesser extent wheat. As RR said, any cereal grain works but some are better than others.




Just curious what it is about wheat you like... to a lesser extent?

Also wonder how you prep millet?  My first try I only simmered for 10min and most of the grains exploded, after PC it was a mess.  Actually it still colonized and worked (black poplar) but was difficult to break up due to all the mush.




Most of us here in Cultivation bring our WBS (mostly millet, but of course you knew that) up to a boil and then immediately remove it from the heat and strain out all the grain as quickly as we can.




Not true at all. Most people here simmer their WBS, not boil. The difference is huge. Bringing WBS to a boil for any amount of time is a recipe for disaster.

My simmer is exremely low. I babysit my WBS while it's heating and I don't allow more than about 5-10 bubbles per second. It takes about 15 minutes to fully hydrate (after a soak for 24 hours, changing the water every few hours to keep it hot) then I dump and drain. I finish my jars a lot faster than most (4-5 days from G2G at a 24:1 ratio) and get 3/4 of the flush most people get with 2/3 the surface area.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202781 - 11/28/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Not true at all. Most people here simmer their WBS, not boil. The difference is huge.



If there is cracked corn, it is advised to just bring the WBS to a boil and dump immediately.

If there is not cc in the mix, some people simmer.

The entire point of heating up the grains is so they steam dry quicker when strained.

The soak is mainly what hydrates the grains.

If you simmer WBS with CC in it you will most likely end up with a clumpy mess.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: PussyFart]
    #19202874 - 11/28/13 10:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Not true at all. Most people here simmer their WBS, not boil. The difference is huge.



If there is cracked corn, it is advised to just bring the WBS to a boil and dump immediately.

If there is not cc in the mix, some people simmer.

The entire point of heating up the grains is so they steam dry quicker when strained.

The soak is mainly what hydrates the grains.

If you simmer WBS with CC in it you will most likely end up with a clumpy mess.




Not true. My normal brand has a bit of CC in it. Not much, but at least a few kernels per jar.

AFAIK, nobody keeps their water hot during a soak like I do. I think it makes the difference. I change water 5-10 times during my soak.

The soak mainly hydrates, but a proper, very careful simmer is the difference between me getting 4 oz per flush or 6 oz per flush on my 58 qt tubs. Yes, the MAIN point is so it dries properly, but a good part of it is hydrating the grain to the center. Even RR will say that one of the points of soaking is to soften the hull so the grain can absorb more water.

Do a test one day. Soak a batch of WBS for 24 hours. Soak one for 24 hours in hot water with no change then simmer extremely gently. Like take a half hour or more to get to a slow simmer. Then soak a batch for 24 hours, but keep the soak water hot. Then don't soak a batch but very gently simmer, again take a half hour or more to get to temp, look for 5-10 bubbles per second and take an hour to get it up. If it bursts within an hour you're fucking it up. Yes, the no soak prep sucks, but do it for science, just so you can see the difference.

I'm talking like 5 jars worth of dry grain per batch for your test run. Bigger batches work, but they require more precision, and I'm sure you'll be able to tell results from that small of a batch. Of course you know to use an isolate.

I did this test 10 times in a row. I found that soaking for 24 hours, changing water to keep it hot, then simmering as gently as possible for 10-15 miuntes (eyeballed until hydrated, I assume you can do that) works absolutely best. I get G2G done in well under a week with a 20-30:1 ratio, which is pretty much unheard of, and they yield as well as anyone else.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Psilicon]
    #19202879 - 11/28/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I don't like much about wheat except for the decent nutrient content and the fact that it's a single grain, so prep can be consistent.

Your problem prepping millet is trying to follow a TEK that's not designed for millet. It's not a commonly used grain, there's no good TEK for it. I've had luck soaking it for 24 hours in hot water, changing the water every few hours to keep it relatively hot, then draining on a towel in frony of a fan till the outside is dry.

If you don't feel confident in knowing how to hydrate a specific grain, I suggest you stick with RR or FH's TEKs. Prep enough WBS and watch the different ingredients and you'll be able to move to other grains with no problems. Once you work with enough different brands of WBS (a lot of which you won't like) you'll figure out how to hydrate each specific grain. They all have different mixes.




Hey I appreciate the response!  I know I'm not a regular in the 'Cult here, but I'm not a noob either :wink:  I don't have any problems with grain prep, I use rye and WBS all day long with no problems.  Wheat, to me, worked just as well with the same prep as rye, that's why I was wondering what specifically it was you didn't like about wheat?

Thanks for the idea on the long soak, no simmer for millet.  That sounds like a really great idea.  I didn't follow a TEK, only some advice from a knowledgeable member here, but I think I messed it up with too hot a simmer or something.  That's why I think your idea might work really well for me, so thanks again, I'll give it a shot!

Quote:

van der griegen said:
It's good to see you here in Cult, Forrester.  I've missed seeing your picture thread about what's going on at your house over in G&E, and I often whip out that picture of your sideways ganoderma monotub as an example of what a really awesome reishi grow can look like.




Haha, thanks!  My last one sucked balls, I've gotta get my game on deck and do a good one like that again!  I should hang around here more, there's a lot more action that's for sure.  Even though I don't grow actives, a lot of the same info does apply...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202894 - 11/28/13 10:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
AFAIK, nobody keeps their water hot during a soak like I do. I think it makes the difference. I change water 5-10 times during my soak.



Damn bro....all that is not needed.....just sayin...

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I found that soaking for 24 hours, changing water to keep it hot, then simmering as gently as possible for 10-15 miuntes (eyeballed until hydrated, I assume you can do that) works absolutely best.



Actually I do not simmer or boil....I just soak my WBS for 24 hours in hot tap water(heated only once)and strain for 30 minutes......


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: PussyFart]
    #19202909 - 11/28/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Actually I do not simmer or boil....I just soak my WBS for 24 hours in hot tap water(heated only once)and strain for 30 minutes......




There's so many ways you can do it and not fail.  Interesting to hear that one works :thumbup:  The most important part, really, is not leaving much/any moisture on them.  You can boil the living fuck out of rye for 20 minutes (because you forgot about it), or you can daintily simmer it at low temp for 40, either way you're fine.  WBS is similar, maybe slightly less tolerant. 

The key?  Don't leave it wet when you PC.  Shit that boils in water in a PC for 90 minutes gets absolutely destroyed.  If it's dry, it'll hold up, and basically any method you've used to hydrate it, within reason, should be fine.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19202910 - 11/28/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

To be quite honest, the main thing I don't like about wheat is the cost. If I could get it cheaper than WBS, I'd probably use it. It doesn't have quite the moisture-holding capabilities of rye, millet or milo. But as far as effiency (AKA grams of mushrooms out per dollars of substrate in) WBS wins in my area. If you're in an area with cheap rye, the ratio of nutrients to water-holding capability will always win.

But for your dollars in compared to your dollars out, rye is king, closely followed by WBS in most areas. As I said, I can't get cheap rye, so WBS is more economical for the amount of money I have to spend per lb of food.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Registered: 02/05/13
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202925 - 11/28/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
To be quite honest, the main thing I don't like about wheat is the cost. If I could get it cheaper than WBS, I'd probably use it. It doesn't have quite the moisture-holding capabilities of rye, millet or milo. But as far as effiency (AKA grams of mushrooms out per dollars of substrate in) WBS wins in my area. If you're in an area with cheap rye, the ratio of nutrients to water-holding capability will always win.

But for your dollars in compared to your dollars out, rye is king, closely followed by WBS.




Won't argue with that, for sure.  For me rye is cheaper than wheat, but they've run out of rye before so I played around.  Wheat does seem to swell up just as big, but as you said it does all come down to cost.  I grow all edible/medicinals these days so the fact that I can get rye organic for $1/lb is the only reason I use it instead of WBS, which I haven't found organic.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisible36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203024 - 11/28/13 11:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Organic is a stupid buzzword. Ignore it. When you look into it, any product that contains carbon can label itself organic. The FDA or USDA doesn't look into organic claims, so there's effectively no regulation. Any grain that's at least feed-grade will work. Avoid WBS that's labeled to contain BirdKote and you'll be alright.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA Flag
Last seen: 1 month, 19 days
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203059 - 11/28/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Organic is a stupid buzzword. Ignore it. When you look into it, any product that contains carbon can label itself organic. The FDA or USDA doesn't look into organic claims, so there's effectively no regulation. Any grain that's at least feed-grade will work. Avoid WBS that's labeled to contain BirdKote and you'll be alright.




Sorry dude, but do you farm edibles for sale, legally?  And looked into getting organic certified?  It actually entails a lot more than that.  I appreciate your advice, and experience on here, but that's just not true.  The FDA/USDA will look into organic claims when you're selling edible mushrooms.  Nobody labels their shit organic on the package and just gets away with it with no investigation.  That's why they invented certification.  And just because something contains carbon in it, doesn't mean they'll certify it organic, they won't.  An organic certification stamp on what you're eating protects you from not only chemicals, adulterants used in growing/manufacturing, but also agains GMO and other disgustingly modified products.  Ask RR about organic certification, or just search his (and others) posts in GG&MM.  There's a lot more to it.

I wasn't arguing which grain would work for 'shroom production, just a preference for not having chemicals in my food :wink:  I guess I should have specified I'm not growing actives (didn't i?).


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisible36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: PussyFart]
    #19203097 - 11/28/13 11:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Missed this. Sorry NAH, I always like discussing the finer points with you.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
AFAIK, nobody keeps their water hot during a soak like I do. I think it makes the difference. I change water 5-10 times during my soak.



Damn bro....all that is not needed.....just sayin...




Not needed, but I've been doing it for about a year. I drink a lot, and sometimes I get fucked up and pass out and don't change the water and I always notice a difference. It's the difference between a 4 oz dry tub and a 6 oz dry tub for me.

Keep in mind I use smaller tubs than most people, so my BE is actually a bit higher than most, but at the cost of slightly more elbow grease.

Before, when I did the normal rinse, soak without a water change and simmer, I couldn't tell a difference between just a soak. I can't tell a difference between a soak with frequent changes with no simmer and a classic soak and simmer. But changing the water and simmering to perfection gives a noticeable difference every time. Both in the size of the kernels after simmering (and God knows I've split enough to find the sweet spot :facepalm:) and in the final yield, and especially in colonization time.

It is probably notable that my water is very, very hard and comes out the tap at about 140-150F. I haven't tried this method anywhere else, but I think the difference is probably the temperature, because it equates to a super-slow-cooker. That's why I want you to try it.

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I found that soaking for 24 hours, changing water to keep it hot, then simmering as gently as possible for 10-15 miuntes (eyeballed until hydrated, I assume you can do that) works absolutely best.




Actually I do not simmer or boil....I just soak my WBS for 24 hours in hot tap water(heated only once)and strain for 30 minutes......




I tried it, and it works at least as well as classic posted methods. But I really think keeping your soak water hot is key, if you have the time to be home to change it every 4-5 hours or less.

I know I've come off as a dick about it before, and I'm sorry about that, but I really want you to experiment more, or at least post about it more. You have a knack for mushroom farming, at least for Cubes. I bet you could at least come up with something logical enough for the community to try.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Invisible36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203110 - 11/28/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I do not farm edibles for sale, but I do live in an area that's high in farm land. I personally know lots of people who sell meat and grain as organic. Mostly beef and corn, but also some sorghum and chickens. I know more, but I know people very well who grow those things. At least 2 of them advertise as organic, only sell wholesale and don't get double-checked. Neither are organic by any means.

I can't really be more specific without violating peoples' trust, and I know that's not the best evidence by any means, but I know it to be true.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePsilicon
Really Nice Guy


Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203112 - 11/28/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Organic is a stupid buzzword. Ignore it. When you look into it, any product that contains carbon can label itself organic. The FDA or USDA doesn't look into organic claims, so there's effectively no regulation. Any grain that's at least feed-grade will work. Avoid WBS that's labeled to contain BirdKote and you'll be alright.




Sorry dude, but do you farm edibles for sale, legally?  And looked into getting organic certified?  It actually entails a lot more than that.  I appreciate your advice, and experience on here, but that's just not true.  The FDA/USDA will look into organic claims when you're selling edible mushrooms.  Nobody labels their shit organic on the package and just gets away with it with no investigation.  That's why they invented certification.  And just because something contains carbon in it, doesn't mean they'll certify it organic, they won't.  An organic certification stamp on what you're eating protects you from not only chemicals, adulterants used in growing/manufacturing, but also agains GMO and other disgustingly modified products.  Ask RR about organic certification, or just search his (and others) posts in GG&MM.  There's a lot more to it.

I wasn't arguing which grain would work for 'shroom production, just a preference for not having chemicals in my food :wink:  I guess I should have specified I'm not growing actives (didn't i?).




Don't mean to be a dick, but I think I would have believed that a lot more readily back in the days before they discovered a peanut plant which had been supplying a total of something like 360 companies and 3900 peanut butter products without ever having been registered with or inspected by the FDA.  They only found it after birds flew in through one of the many holes in the roof and continuously took dumps onto the catwalk, resulting in the most massive food recall of all time.

I'm not saying they're not breathing down your neck--just that they don't tend to breathe down the necks of large operations until it's too late.


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Invisible36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203116 - 11/28/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just keep in mind: how many USDA and FDA field agents are there compared to how many acres of land being farmed? Acre for acre, mushrooms produce lots more money. It's easier to survey a small area.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
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Registered: 02/05/13
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203145 - 11/28/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Just keep in mind: how many USDA and FDA field agents are there compared to how many acres of land being farmed? Acre for acre, mushrooms produce lots more money. It's easier to survey a small area.





For sure guys, I definitely can't vouch for how often that shit is checked out.  As far as it being just a buzzword?  Not so much, but your doubts?  Definitely valid.  I guess I'll find out when I try to get/maintain my certification.  I certainly wish a stamp could be more trustworthy, but as with anything in this country, I'm sure stuff can get "overlooked" when there's money involved or for many other reasons...

Either way, good points :thumbup:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineDannyDGAF
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203159 - 11/28/13 11:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you need items you can't find locally why not buy it online like from amazon?  I bought my perlite & verm from amazon for a pretty decent low price...


--------------------
"You tell him, and I will smack you. I will smack you like a bad, bad donkey!"


Our dreams are a second life. I have never been able to penetrate without a shudder those ivory or horned gates which separate us from the invisible world.


"In order to use your head, you have to go out of your mind" -  Tim Leary


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203165 - 11/28/13 11:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Getting a certification definitely means some work. Keeping one? If you don't work for a major corporation (see: not working for Monsanto) in most places, you'll be unlucky to see an inspector every 5 years. Not saying it's always the case, but usually it is. It costs money to send an inspector out. Walking a big commercial farm and really checking what's going on could easily take a week. Big commercial farms take up a large percentage of the farmland in the US. Do the math.

As a disclaimer, I do think it's completely fucked, and I wish more of our tax money went to people like USDA inspectors instead of your senator's 6-figure salary, but it is what it is.


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i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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