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OfflineHonguista
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Registered: 05/24/13
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Cracked corn
    #19201177 - 11/28/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

As some of you may have read in another thread, I have some Equador agar dishes ready to transfer to grain (the Galindoi we're still working on), so I have one more question to ask in order to be able to propperly set everything up before the weekend.

I was looking for alternative grains to spawn since rye is harder to get in my country: I'd have to travel to a city 3 hours from where i live, while I can get any kind of corn you can imagine in my own city for as cheap as the rye.

I read TheApprentice's thread on cracked corn http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17880402/fpart/1/vc/1 as well as this tek on cracked corn http://www.shroomery.org/9034/Cracked-Corn-Preparation-Technique  and I'm definitely going to try my first corn grain substrate.

I also got encouraged by reading this paper: http://scihub.org/ABJNA/PDF/2010/5/ABJNA-1-5-817-820.pdf ; It is about oysters, but it also shows that the fastest colonization times occured on white corn...

Which brings me to my question:

There are plenty of threads regarding gypsum and coffee to be added to rye or WBS, but I have seen none regarding using those additives to corn.  Does anyone know if it would work the same in cracked corn if I use the same proportions?


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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Honguista]
    #19201276 - 11/28/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

awwe shucks!

:bashful:

YES CRACKED CORN RULES.

I've never added gypsum, although I've added coffee
to the soak water (not coffee grounds).
things to remember with cracked corn.

RINSE BEFORE SOAK.

NO BOIL.

RINSE THOROUGHLY AFTER SOAK.

DRY THOROUGHLY.

And if you are using to g2g,
do it immediately after full colonization
or that shit will be a solid cake 2 weeks later,
and it doesn't break up well banging the jar.

Good Luck:zaphod:


--------------------


RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent *
No Pour AGAR Tek Easy COIR Trays! *
Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK

"Yeah?  Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!" :mastershake:


Edited by TheApprentice (11/28/13 03:32 PM)


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: TheApprentice]
    #19201764 - 11/28/13 05:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Cracked corn, and corn in general suck. They just don't hold enough water.

If you must use corn, use regular popcorn. Load it into your PC (not in jars) cover with a lot of water and PC at 15 PSI for 30 minutes. Drain, jar it up and sterilize.

WBS is a much better, and usually cheaper, choice though.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19201822 - 11/28/13 06:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Cracked corn, and corn in general suck. They just don't hold enough water.

If you must use corn, use regular popcorn. Load it into your PC (not in jars) cover with a lot of water and PC at 15 PSI for 30 minutes. Drain, jar it up and sterilize.

WBS is a much better, and usually cheaper, choice though.




:whathesaid:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


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AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflinePsilicon
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Honguista]
    #19201861 - 11/28/13 06:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know what country you live in, but there has to be an abundance of other grains there.  Whole brown rice?  Wheat? Amaranth? Sorghum?  Grass seed?


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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19201932 - 11/28/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Cracked corn, and corn in general suck. They just don't hold enough water.

If you must use corn, use regular popcorn. Load it into your PC (not in jars) cover with a lot of water and PC at 15 PSI for 30 minutes. Drain, jar it up and sterilize.

WBS is a much better, and usually cheaper, choice though.




:whathesaid:










OYSTERS







CRACKED CORN DOESN'T SUCK

you're just doing it wrong!


--------------------


RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent *
No Pour AGAR Tek Easy COIR Trays! *
Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK

"Yeah?  Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!" :mastershake:


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: TheApprentice]
    #19201938 - 11/28/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Me and 36 never said it wouldn't work. Of course it works.

But the fact is that I can do every other grain much easier, to the same end. That's my point :shrug:

Do I really need to drop my tub pics and gourmets in here? :lol:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19201950 - 11/28/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
I can do every other grain much easier, to the same end. That's my point :shrug:




:whathesaid:

Corn also doesn't make a lot of jars per dry lb of grain, making it kind of expensive.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19201957 - 11/28/13 06:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

LOL
Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
I can do every other grain much easier, to the same end. That's my point :shrug:

Do I really need to drop my tub pics and gourmets in here? :lol:





:slowreaction:

LOL No.  I'm just sayin it can be worked with just fine.

and for .17 a pound, why not?  :wink:


--------------------


RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent *
No Pour AGAR Tek Easy COIR Trays! *
Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK

"Yeah?  Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!" :mastershake:


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: TheApprentice]
    #19201969 - 11/28/13 06:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hey, if it works for ya, it works. Don't let me stop you :lol:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19201978 - 11/28/13 06:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Popcorn can work, its just a pain in the ass, has super few nock points, and contams easy. I have used popcorn successfully in the past. Won't use it again now that I have tried WBS, Rye, and HRWW. It does smell really good when it comes out of the PC tho :thumbup:

Its like bringing a knife to a gun fight. The knife can work, but the gun is better.


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OfflineTheApprentice
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19201985 - 11/28/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Hey, if it works for ya, it works. Don't let me stop you :lol:





I mean, I'm definitely using WBS for my little cube grow right now... Shhh!


--------------------


RR Videos -Best $9 Ever Spent *
No Pour AGAR Tek Easy COIR Trays! *
Pink Oysters on Newspaper TEK

"Yeah?  Well, DRACULA called... and he said he's coming over tonight, and I said OK!" :mastershake:


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: TheApprentice]
    #19202212 - 11/28/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The cheap price of cracked corn doesn't make up for the lower yields and higher rates of contamination.  It can work of course and I've used it too, but there's better alternatives.

To the original poster, you can use just about any cereal grain.  Grass seed also works well.  If you must use corn, see if you can find whole kernels.
RR


--------------------
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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19202282 - 11/28/13 07:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
The cheap price of cracked corn doesn't make up for the lower yields and higher rates of contamination.




I never had problems with contams, but I never saw it as cheaper. When you look at the price of a 50 lb bag of corn and how many jars you get compared to how many you get out of 50 lb of WBS or even better rye (but rye is very cost-prohibitive in my area) it's a lot more expensive.

For roughly $20, I get 50 lbs of WBS, which will get me about 90 jars. For about the same price, I get 50 lbs of popcorn, which will get me about 60 jars. WBS yields a little better and ends up with less cost per jar.

IMO, the only grains worth using are rye, milo, millet and to a lesser extent wheat. As RR said, any cereal grain works but some are better than others.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineHonguista
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Registered: 05/24/13
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: TheApprentice]
    #19202581 - 11/28/13 08:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TheApprentice said:
awwe shucks!

:bashful:

YES CRACKED CORN RULES.

I've never added gypsum, although I've added coffee
to the soak water (not coffee grounds).
things to remember with cracked corn.

RINSE BEFORE SOAK.

NO BOIL.

RINSE THOROUGHLY AFTER SOAK.

DRY THOROUGHLY.

And if you are using to g2g,
do it immediately after full colonization
or that shit will be a solid cake 2 weeks later,
and it doesn't break up well banging the jar.

Good Luck:zaphod:




Great TheApprentice, thanks a lot! I'll be adding some coffee and gypsum as well, we'll see how it turns.
I'm planning on spawning my agars to the corn this weekend, so I'll be posting an update soon.


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OfflineHonguista
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19202595 - 11/28/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Cracked corn, and corn in general suck. They just don't hold enough water.

If you must use corn, use regular popcorn. Load it into your PC (not in jars) cover with a lot of water and PC at 15 PSI for 30 minutes. Drain, jar it up and sterilize.

WBS is a much better, and usually cheaper, choice though.




:whathesaid:




I think I have enough agars and I can get enough corn to do two batches actually: one following TheApprentice method, and another one following FrankHorrigan/36fuckin5.

I feel as if I'm being really stubborn about the corn thing, but hey: cost the same as rye where I live, and I have to walk 1 block to the store, versus driving 3 hours to the other city... Not in the mood. lol

In the end, if nothing else, we'll have a good comparison between two different scenarios, which will either give us more lights about working with corn, or give more fuel to the already corn-hating members... lmfao!

You are great guys, thanks a lot for the good laughs.


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OfflineHonguista
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Psilicon]
    #19202601 - 11/28/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
I don't know what country you live in, but there has to be an abundance of other grains there.  Whole brown rice?  Wheat? Amaranth? Sorghum?  Grass seed?




To be honest, the only ones I've been able to find are grass seed and WBS in garden/pet stores.  Rye, wheat and another one that I don't know how to translate if I drive the 3 hours to that other place.

And do you know what else has proven to be IMPOSSIBLE to get my hands on here? Vermiculite and perlite...  Kinda limited options.


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OfflineHonguista
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #19202610 - 11/28/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
The cheap price of cracked corn doesn't make up for the lower yields and higher rates of contamination.  It can work of course and I've used it too, but there's better alternatives.

To the original poster, you can use just about any cereal grain.  Grass seed also works well.  If you must use corn, see if you can find whole kernels.
RR




Thanks RR! Will add a batch of whole kernels as well for purposes of comparison then.  This is gonna turn quite interesting in the end!


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Honguista]
    #19202658 - 11/28/13 09:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You can trust a handful of people who have gotten results from cracked corn, and are the lucky ones, or you can go with people like me and Frank who verify our methods through thousands of tests in thousands of different environments.

Waste your money if you want, if you really have to see it, but I'd rather you learn from the money I already wasted doing the tests.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202671 - 11/28/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
IMO, the only grains worth using are rye, milo, millet and to a lesser extent wheat. As RR said, any cereal grain works but some are better than others.




Just curious what it is about wheat you like... to a lesser extent?

Also wonder how you prep millet?  My first try I only simmered for 10min and most of the grains exploded, after PC it was a mess.  Actually it still colonized and worked (black poplar) but was difficult to break up due to all the mush.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19202731 - 11/28/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't like much about wheat except for the decent nutrient content and the fact that it's a single grain, so prep can be consistent.

Your problem prepping millet is trying to follow a TEK that's not designed for millet. It's not a commonly used grain, there's no good TEK for it. I've had luck soaking it for 24 hours in hot water, changing the water every few hours to keep it relatively hot, then draining on a towel in frony of a fan till the outside is dry.

If you don't feel confident in knowing how to hydrate a specific grain, I suggest you stick with RR or FH's TEKs. Prep enough WBS and watch the different ingredients and you'll be able to move to other grains with no problems. Once you work with enough different brands of WBS (a lot of which you won't like) you'll figure out how to hydrate each specific grain. They all have different mixes.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 7,057
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19202744 - 11/28/13 09:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
IMO, the only grains worth using are rye, milo, millet and to a lesser extent wheat. As RR said, any cereal grain works but some are better than others.




Just curious what it is about wheat you like... to a lesser extent?

Also wonder how you prep millet?  My first try I only simmered for 10min and most of the grains exploded, after PC it was a mess.  Actually it still colonized and worked (black poplar) but was difficult to break up due to all the mush.




Most of us here in Cultivation bring our WBS (mostly millet, but of course you knew that) up to a boil and then immediately remove it from the heat and strain out all the grain as quickly as we can. 

It's good to see you here in Cult, Forrester.  I've missed seeing your picture thread about what's going on at your house over in G&E, and I often whip out that picture of your sideways ganoderma monotub as an example of what a really awesome reishi grow can look like.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202749 - 11/28/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Personally I never simmer millet. I just soak it longer than rye. Even a hint of a simmer causes millet to explode IME.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Psilicon]
    #19202766 - 11/28/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
IMO, the only grains worth using are rye, milo, millet and to a lesser extent wheat. As RR said, any cereal grain works but some are better than others.




Just curious what it is about wheat you like... to a lesser extent?

Also wonder how you prep millet?  My first try I only simmered for 10min and most of the grains exploded, after PC it was a mess.  Actually it still colonized and worked (black poplar) but was difficult to break up due to all the mush.




Most of us here in Cultivation bring our WBS (mostly millet, but of course you knew that) up to a boil and then immediately remove it from the heat and strain out all the grain as quickly as we can.




Not true at all. Most people here simmer their WBS, not boil. The difference is huge. Bringing WBS to a boil for any amount of time is a recipe for disaster.

My simmer is exremely low. I babysit my WBS while it's heating and I don't allow more than about 5-10 bubbles per second. It takes about 15 minutes to fully hydrate (after a soak for 24 hours, changing the water every few hours to keep it hot) then I dump and drain. I finish my jars a lot faster than most (4-5 days from G2G at a 24:1 ratio) and get 3/4 of the flush most people get with 2/3 the surface area.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202781 - 11/28/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Not true at all. Most people here simmer their WBS, not boil. The difference is huge.



If there is cracked corn, it is advised to just bring the WBS to a boil and dump immediately.

If there is not cc in the mix, some people simmer.

The entire point of heating up the grains is so they steam dry quicker when strained.

The soak is mainly what hydrates the grains.

If you simmer WBS with CC in it you will most likely end up with a clumpy mess.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: PussyFart]
    #19202874 - 11/28/13 10:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Not true at all. Most people here simmer their WBS, not boil. The difference is huge.



If there is cracked corn, it is advised to just bring the WBS to a boil and dump immediately.

If there is not cc in the mix, some people simmer.

The entire point of heating up the grains is so they steam dry quicker when strained.

The soak is mainly what hydrates the grains.

If you simmer WBS with CC in it you will most likely end up with a clumpy mess.




Not true. My normal brand has a bit of CC in it. Not much, but at least a few kernels per jar.

AFAIK, nobody keeps their water hot during a soak like I do. I think it makes the difference. I change water 5-10 times during my soak.

The soak mainly hydrates, but a proper, very careful simmer is the difference between me getting 4 oz per flush or 6 oz per flush on my 58 qt tubs. Yes, the MAIN point is so it dries properly, but a good part of it is hydrating the grain to the center. Even RR will say that one of the points of soaking is to soften the hull so the grain can absorb more water.

Do a test one day. Soak a batch of WBS for 24 hours. Soak one for 24 hours in hot water with no change then simmer extremely gently. Like take a half hour or more to get to a slow simmer. Then soak a batch for 24 hours, but keep the soak water hot. Then don't soak a batch but very gently simmer, again take a half hour or more to get to temp, look for 5-10 bubbles per second and take an hour to get it up. If it bursts within an hour you're fucking it up. Yes, the no soak prep sucks, but do it for science, just so you can see the difference.

I'm talking like 5 jars worth of dry grain per batch for your test run. Bigger batches work, but they require more precision, and I'm sure you'll be able to tell results from that small of a batch. Of course you know to use an isolate.

I did this test 10 times in a row. I found that soaking for 24 hours, changing water to keep it hot, then simmering as gently as possible for 10-15 miuntes (eyeballed until hydrated, I assume you can do that) works absolutely best. I get G2G done in well under a week with a 20-30:1 ratio, which is pretty much unheard of, and they yield as well as anyone else.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Psilicon]
    #19202879 - 11/28/13 10:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I don't like much about wheat except for the decent nutrient content and the fact that it's a single grain, so prep can be consistent.

Your problem prepping millet is trying to follow a TEK that's not designed for millet. It's not a commonly used grain, there's no good TEK for it. I've had luck soaking it for 24 hours in hot water, changing the water every few hours to keep it relatively hot, then draining on a towel in frony of a fan till the outside is dry.

If you don't feel confident in knowing how to hydrate a specific grain, I suggest you stick with RR or FH's TEKs. Prep enough WBS and watch the different ingredients and you'll be able to move to other grains with no problems. Once you work with enough different brands of WBS (a lot of which you won't like) you'll figure out how to hydrate each specific grain. They all have different mixes.




Hey I appreciate the response!  I know I'm not a regular in the 'Cult here, but I'm not a noob either :wink:  I don't have any problems with grain prep, I use rye and WBS all day long with no problems.  Wheat, to me, worked just as well with the same prep as rye, that's why I was wondering what specifically it was you didn't like about wheat?

Thanks for the idea on the long soak, no simmer for millet.  That sounds like a really great idea.  I didn't follow a TEK, only some advice from a knowledgeable member here, but I think I messed it up with too hot a simmer or something.  That's why I think your idea might work really well for me, so thanks again, I'll give it a shot!

Quote:

van der griegen said:
It's good to see you here in Cult, Forrester.  I've missed seeing your picture thread about what's going on at your house over in G&E, and I often whip out that picture of your sideways ganoderma monotub as an example of what a really awesome reishi grow can look like.




Haha, thanks!  My last one sucked balls, I've gotta get my game on deck and do a good one like that again!  I should hang around here more, there's a lot more action that's for sure.  Even though I don't grow actives, a lot of the same info does apply...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflinePussyFart
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202894 - 11/28/13 10:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
AFAIK, nobody keeps their water hot during a soak like I do. I think it makes the difference. I change water 5-10 times during my soak.



Damn bro....all that is not needed.....just sayin...

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I found that soaking for 24 hours, changing water to keep it hot, then simmering as gently as possible for 10-15 miuntes (eyeballed until hydrated, I assume you can do that) works absolutely best.



Actually I do not simmer or boil....I just soak my WBS for 24 hours in hot tap water(heated only once)and strain for 30 minutes......


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: PussyFart]
    #19202909 - 11/28/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Actually I do not simmer or boil....I just soak my WBS for 24 hours in hot tap water(heated only once)and strain for 30 minutes......




There's so many ways you can do it and not fail.  Interesting to hear that one works :thumbup:  The most important part, really, is not leaving much/any moisture on them.  You can boil the living fuck out of rye for 20 minutes (because you forgot about it), or you can daintily simmer it at low temp for 40, either way you're fine.  WBS is similar, maybe slightly less tolerant. 

The key?  Don't leave it wet when you PC.  Shit that boils in water in a PC for 90 minutes gets absolutely destroyed.  If it's dry, it'll hold up, and basically any method you've used to hydrate it, within reason, should be fine.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19202910 - 11/28/13 10:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

To be quite honest, the main thing I don't like about wheat is the cost. If I could get it cheaper than WBS, I'd probably use it. It doesn't have quite the moisture-holding capabilities of rye, millet or milo. But as far as effiency (AKA grams of mushrooms out per dollars of substrate in) WBS wins in my area. If you're in an area with cheap rye, the ratio of nutrients to water-holding capability will always win.

But for your dollars in compared to your dollars out, rye is king, closely followed by WBS in most areas. As I said, I can't get cheap rye, so WBS is more economical for the amount of money I have to spend per lb of food.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19202925 - 11/28/13 10:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
To be quite honest, the main thing I don't like about wheat is the cost. If I could get it cheaper than WBS, I'd probably use it. It doesn't have quite the moisture-holding capabilities of rye, millet or milo. But as far as effiency (AKA grams of mushrooms out per dollars of substrate in) WBS wins in my area. If you're in an area with cheap rye, the ratio of nutrients to water-holding capability will always win.

But for your dollars in compared to your dollars out, rye is king, closely followed by WBS.




Won't argue with that, for sure.  For me rye is cheaper than wheat, but they've run out of rye before so I played around.  Wheat does seem to swell up just as big, but as you said it does all come down to cost.  I grow all edible/medicinals these days so the fact that I can get rye organic for $1/lb is the only reason I use it instead of WBS, which I haven't found organic.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203024 - 11/28/13 11:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Organic is a stupid buzzword. Ignore it. When you look into it, any product that contains carbon can label itself organic. The FDA or USDA doesn't look into organic claims, so there's effectively no regulation. Any grain that's at least feed-grade will work. Avoid WBS that's labeled to contain BirdKote and you'll be alright.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203059 - 11/28/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Organic is a stupid buzzword. Ignore it. When you look into it, any product that contains carbon can label itself organic. The FDA or USDA doesn't look into organic claims, so there's effectively no regulation. Any grain that's at least feed-grade will work. Avoid WBS that's labeled to contain BirdKote and you'll be alright.




Sorry dude, but do you farm edibles for sale, legally?  And looked into getting organic certified?  It actually entails a lot more than that.  I appreciate your advice, and experience on here, but that's just not true.  The FDA/USDA will look into organic claims when you're selling edible mushrooms.  Nobody labels their shit organic on the package and just gets away with it with no investigation.  That's why they invented certification.  And just because something contains carbon in it, doesn't mean they'll certify it organic, they won't.  An organic certification stamp on what you're eating protects you from not only chemicals, adulterants used in growing/manufacturing, but also agains GMO and other disgustingly modified products.  Ask RR about organic certification, or just search his (and others) posts in GG&MM.  There's a lot more to it.

I wasn't arguing which grain would work for 'shroom production, just a preference for not having chemicals in my food :wink:  I guess I should have specified I'm not growing actives (didn't i?).


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: PussyFart]
    #19203097 - 11/28/13 11:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Missed this. Sorry NAH, I always like discussing the finer points with you.

Quote:

Notahacker420 said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
AFAIK, nobody keeps their water hot during a soak like I do. I think it makes the difference. I change water 5-10 times during my soak.



Damn bro....all that is not needed.....just sayin...




Not needed, but I've been doing it for about a year. I drink a lot, and sometimes I get fucked up and pass out and don't change the water and I always notice a difference. It's the difference between a 4 oz dry tub and a 6 oz dry tub for me.

Keep in mind I use smaller tubs than most people, so my BE is actually a bit higher than most, but at the cost of slightly more elbow grease.

Before, when I did the normal rinse, soak without a water change and simmer, I couldn't tell a difference between just a soak. I can't tell a difference between a soak with frequent changes with no simmer and a classic soak and simmer. But changing the water and simmering to perfection gives a noticeable difference every time. Both in the size of the kernels after simmering (and God knows I've split enough to find the sweet spot :facepalm:) and in the final yield, and especially in colonization time.

It is probably notable that my water is very, very hard and comes out the tap at about 140-150F. I haven't tried this method anywhere else, but I think the difference is probably the temperature, because it equates to a super-slow-cooker. That's why I want you to try it.

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
I found that soaking for 24 hours, changing water to keep it hot, then simmering as gently as possible for 10-15 miuntes (eyeballed until hydrated, I assume you can do that) works absolutely best.




Actually I do not simmer or boil....I just soak my WBS for 24 hours in hot tap water(heated only once)and strain for 30 minutes......




I tried it, and it works at least as well as classic posted methods. But I really think keeping your soak water hot is key, if you have the time to be home to change it every 4-5 hours or less.

I know I've come off as a dick about it before, and I'm sorry about that, but I really want you to experiment more, or at least post about it more. You have a knack for mushroom farming, at least for Cubes. I bet you could at least come up with something logical enough for the community to try.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203110 - 11/28/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I do not farm edibles for sale, but I do live in an area that's high in farm land. I personally know lots of people who sell meat and grain as organic. Mostly beef and corn, but also some sorghum and chickens. I know more, but I know people very well who grow those things. At least 2 of them advertise as organic, only sell wholesale and don't get double-checked. Neither are organic by any means.

I can't really be more specific without violating peoples' trust, and I know that's not the best evidence by any means, but I know it to be true.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflinePsilicon
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Registered: 08/26/12
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203112 - 11/28/13 11:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Organic is a stupid buzzword. Ignore it. When you look into it, any product that contains carbon can label itself organic. The FDA or USDA doesn't look into organic claims, so there's effectively no regulation. Any grain that's at least feed-grade will work. Avoid WBS that's labeled to contain BirdKote and you'll be alright.




Sorry dude, but do you farm edibles for sale, legally?  And looked into getting organic certified?  It actually entails a lot more than that.  I appreciate your advice, and experience on here, but that's just not true.  The FDA/USDA will look into organic claims when you're selling edible mushrooms.  Nobody labels their shit organic on the package and just gets away with it with no investigation.  That's why they invented certification.  And just because something contains carbon in it, doesn't mean they'll certify it organic, they won't.  An organic certification stamp on what you're eating protects you from not only chemicals, adulterants used in growing/manufacturing, but also agains GMO and other disgustingly modified products.  Ask RR about organic certification, or just search his (and others) posts in GG&MM.  There's a lot more to it.

I wasn't arguing which grain would work for 'shroom production, just a preference for not having chemicals in my food :wink:  I guess I should have specified I'm not growing actives (didn't i?).




Don't mean to be a dick, but I think I would have believed that a lot more readily back in the days before they discovered a peanut plant which had been supplying a total of something like 360 companies and 3900 peanut butter products without ever having been registered with or inspected by the FDA.  They only found it after birds flew in through one of the many holes in the roof and continuously took dumps onto the catwalk, resulting in the most massive food recall of all time.

I'm not saying they're not breathing down your neck--just that they don't tend to breathe down the necks of large operations until it's too late.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203116 - 11/28/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Just keep in mind: how many USDA and FDA field agents are there compared to how many acres of land being farmed? Acre for acre, mushrooms produce lots more money. It's easier to survey a small area.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203145 - 11/28/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Just keep in mind: how many USDA and FDA field agents are there compared to how many acres of land being farmed? Acre for acre, mushrooms produce lots more money. It's easier to survey a small area.





For sure guys, I definitely can't vouch for how often that shit is checked out.  As far as it being just a buzzword?  Not so much, but your doubts?  Definitely valid.  I guess I'll find out when I try to get/maintain my certification.  I certainly wish a stamp could be more trustworthy, but as with anything in this country, I'm sure stuff can get "overlooked" when there's money involved or for many other reasons...

Either way, good points :thumbup:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineDannyDGAF
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203159 - 11/28/13 11:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you need items you can't find locally why not buy it online like from amazon?  I bought my perlite & verm from amazon for a pretty decent low price...


--------------------
"You tell him, and I will smack you. I will smack you like a bad, bad donkey!"


Our dreams are a second life. I have never been able to penetrate without a shudder those ivory or horned gates which separate us from the invisible world.


"In order to use your head, you have to go out of your mind" -  Tim Leary


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203165 - 11/28/13 11:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Getting a certification definitely means some work. Keeping one? If you don't work for a major corporation (see: not working for Monsanto) in most places, you'll be unlucky to see an inspector every 5 years. Not saying it's always the case, but usually it is. It costs money to send an inspector out. Walking a big commercial farm and really checking what's going on could easily take a week. Big commercial farms take up a large percentage of the farmland in the US. Do the math.

As a disclaimer, I do think it's completely fucked, and I wish more of our tax money went to people like USDA inspectors instead of your senator's 6-figure salary, but it is what it is.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Psilicon]
    #19203172 - 11/28/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

van der griegen said:
Don't mean to be a dick, but I think I would have believed that a lot more readily back in the days before they discovered a peanut plant which had been supplying a total of something like 360 companies and 3900 peanut butter products without ever having been registered with or inspected by the FDA.  They only found it after birds flew in through one of the many holes in the roof and continuously took dumps onto the catwalk, resulting in the most massive food recall of all time.

I'm not saying they're not breathing down your neck--just that they don't tend to breathe down the necks of large operations until it's too late.




Now that I actually checked out that link a bit, did that have anything whatsoever to do with organic certification?  I mean was that an organic certified plant?  or just a regular peanut plant?


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: Forrester]
    #19203176 - 11/28/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Now that I actually checked out that link a bit, did that have anything whatsoever to do with organic certification?  I mean was that an organic certified plant?  or just a regular peanut plant?




No, but how much more scrutiny do you think organic farmers are under compared to normal farmers? Again, it comes down to paying people to walk those fields and check, and they just don't have the cash to do proper checks.

When the man shows up, there are more check marks for organic farmers, but he doesn't show up any more often.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203178 - 11/28/13 11:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Getting a certification definitely means some work. Keeping one? If you don't work for a major corporation (see: not working for Monsanto) in most places, you'll be unlucky to see an inspector every 5 years. Not saying it's always the case, but usually it is. It costs money to send an inspector out. Walking a big commercial farm and really checking what's going on could easily take a week. Big commercial farms take up a large percentage of the farmland in the US. Do the math.

As a disclaimer, I do think it's completely fucked, and I wish more of our tax money went to people like USDA inspectors instead of your senator's 6-figure salary, but it is what it is.




Makes sense man!  Like I said, no experience as of yet but what you say makes complete sense.  Can only say it's encouraging for someone planning to be legit like me :smile:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203184 - 11/29/13 12:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
No, but how much more scrutiny do you think organic farmers are under? Again, it comes down to paying people to walk those fields and check, and they just don't have the cash to do proper checks.




Well, being that organic certification is an entirely different organization than the USDA, and can actually be one of quite a few (there's a load of organic certification agencies), I'd say it could vary, that's really all I could say :smile:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineHonguista
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19203803 - 11/29/13 07:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
Organic is a stupid buzzword. Ignore it.




With that I agree. From what I've seen locally, organic goods can be so expensive that it's just not a viable option, especially if we consider that fungus just need what is called "food grade" goods. This biologist friend I had once did a spawn on "chicken grade" (chicken food, I don't know the proper word for it) grain. Yes, it was not optimal, but if you're just growing some shrooms for personal consumtion, I guess it's somehow worth it.


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OfflineHonguista
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Re: Cracked corn [Re: DannyDGAF]
    #19203810 - 11/29/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

DannyDGAF said:
If you need items you can't find locally why not buy it online like from amazon?  I bought my perlite & verm from amazon for a pretty decent low price...




My main problem regarding purchasing online is the shipping cost. In my case that would mean an overseas shipment, which makes it just not viable cost-wise. Friends I have in the US though, they say it's a good option.


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