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OfflineThePump
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poisoned?
    #19199766 - 11/28/13 08:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

wasn't too sure where to post this question. but, i was wondering if there were any cyan psilocybe lookalikes that could cause gastro intestinal upset after 30 hours. I woke up in the morning, the second day after tripping, with a temperature and vomited 3 times throughout the first day, and once today. i did also have a sore throat and blocked sinuses, which made me think it was a virus of some kind rather than poisoning.

My girlfriend tripped with me and she felt fine. I'm very careful when collecting them. but thought i'd better check on here just incase my liver is about to pack up or something. :eek:


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: poisoned? [Re: ThePump]
    #19199810 - 11/28/13 08:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Some Galerina can look almost identical to cyans and grow in the same habitat at the same time.
Did you spore print all of them?
Did you have any diarrhea?
I'm not trying to worry you,just stating some facts.


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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19199819 - 11/28/13 08:42 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

honestly, with vomoting and a fever...you should go to the hospital anway.


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: poisoned? [Re: bloodworm]
    #19199822 - 11/28/13 08:43 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflineThePump
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Re: poisoned? [Re: bloodworm]
    #19199825 - 11/28/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i didn't spore print all of them no. I feel fine now, seems like it has passed. but maybe i'll get down to the doc just to be safe. thanks


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Offlinepseudotsuga
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19199829 - 11/28/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It sounds like you got sick rather than poisoned.
Happy to hear you are feeling better.


Edited by pseudotsuga (11/28/13 08:47 AM)


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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: poisoned? [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #19199856 - 11/28/13 08:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I agree that you sounded sick...
not necessarily from from myshrooms.
but, with vomiting and fevers...it's better safe than sorry, imo.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: ThePump]
    #19199861 - 11/28/13 08:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Doesn't sound likely that your symptoms came from mushroom poisoning, given
the time from ingestion until you got sick. What did you eat between tripping and
sickness?


--------------------




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Offlinedaz01
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Anglerfish] * 1
    #19199869 - 11/28/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Amatoxin poisoning can take upto 24 hours for symptoms to appear, symptoms can then dissapear but you're liver and organs are still dying.


--------------------
Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.


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OfflineThePump
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #19199883 - 11/28/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

think i had fried eggs for lunch and spagetti and meatballs for dinner. spent a long time outside in the cold weather as well, making it easier for an illness to take hold. It was minumum 30 hours after eating the mushrooms, more likely about 37 hours. no stomach cramps or diarrhea.


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: poisoned? [Re: ThePump]
    #19199912 - 11/28/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think with the lack of stomach cramps and diarrhea we can rule out mushroom poisoning.


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OfflineThePump
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19199925 - 11/28/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

thanks for all the replies. Think i'm probably ok, but i'm going to drop into the doc's tomorrow morning just to be on the safe side!


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OfflineEddeee
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19199958 - 11/28/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

OP should get some liver values checked. ALT, AlkPh, Bill Just saying Classic Amanita toxicity is  delayed and can be mild to sever gastric issues such as the OP described. Depends on the amount ingested, In this case probably no big deal though. Ether way you will know in time. It can take up to three weeks before you really start having issues with multiple organ failure  So time will tell. Start taking milk thistle . Just some advise from someone who knows a bit about toxic mushrooms. Well at least in dogs and cats. but pretty sure it is the same for humans.


--------------------
Don't read books study life then write books
we are nothing but atoms trying to figure out what atoms are.



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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: ThePump]
    #19200064 - 11/28/13 10:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ThePump said:
thanks for all the replies. Think i'm probably ok, but i'm going to drop into the doc's tomorrow morning just to be on the safe side!





Waste of time and money.  Your symptoms do not match those of mushroom poisoning.


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Re: poisoned? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19200084 - 11/28/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:

Waste of time and money.  Your symptoms do not match those of mushroom poisoning.



no harm in getting a second, third, or fourth opinion.  I can understand not letting the "online experts" sooth the fear.....it's a forum after all.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: RiverDweller1]
    #19200098 - 11/28/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There is harm in going to the doctor as the time and money could be better spent other ways.

The fact that he had a sore throat confirms that it was just a cold.


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OfflineThePump
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19200115 - 11/28/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i dont usaully vomit over two days with a cold though. and in the uk all our medical treatment is free!! so just to be safe..


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Invisiblebloodworm
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19200116 - 11/28/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

ThePump said:
thanks for all the replies. Think i'm probably ok, but i'm going to drop into the doc's tomorrow morning just to be on the safe side!





Waste of time and money.  Your symptoms do not match those of mushroom poisoning.




not only people w/ mushroom poisoning should go to the hospital, though...


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Offlinejet li
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Re: poisoned? [Re: ThePump]
    #19200125 - 11/28/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Eggs and Spaghetti mixture is likely the culprit.


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Re: poisoned? [Re: bloodworm]
    #19200143 - 11/28/13 10:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't go to the doctor for much of anything but if I was scared of mushroom poisoning I wouldn't take ANYONE'S word alone except that of my doctor.  Peace of mind is invaluable.  I don't trust anyone but myself with my life.


OP, sorry you weren't feeling well.  I hope you feel better soon.  I don't think you are mushroom poisoned either but best of luck at your doctor's.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: RiverDweller1]
    #19200151 - 11/28/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In the US the doctor would just send you home with a $150 bill, since medical care is free in the UK I guess it's not so bad. 

But really if you had amatoxin poisoning you would feel like you were going to die, it's super painful.

The fact that you tripped means you got the correct mushrooms.  Everyone is paranoid of a mixed Galerina collection, but I have never heard of that happening.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19200210 - 11/28/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You could also have a mild Salmonella poisoning from the eggs, but i don't think you'd be feeling good so early, anyway it's good that you do.

Medical care in the US is hideous.


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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Offlinejet li
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Re: poisoned? [Re: pouihi]
    #19200246 - 11/28/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

In all fairness, you can get extremely good deals on healthcare, here in the U.S.A., if you can get elected.


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OfflineThePump
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Re: poisoned? [Re: jet li]
    #19200263 - 11/28/13 11:03 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

but i thought obama brought in the wonderful obamacare??!!! what's the problem :rolleyes:


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: poisoned? [Re: jet li]
    #19200766 - 11/28/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:laugh2:

That doesn't appear to be the only wonderful thing he brought in :strokebeard:


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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Re: poisoned? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19200785 - 11/28/13 01:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Blue-FunGuy said:
I think with the lack of stomach cramps and diarrhea we can rule out mushroom poisoning.




--------------------
~~~~~~***Psilocybin Mushrooms***~~~~~~
_________A Practical Guide To Psilocybin Mushrooms_________

:sporedrop:                      "Think about the species, not your scale". -NeoSporen                      :sporedrop:

"Mr. Joust, I see you don't actually partake in the psilocin, but it looks like it may partake in you!" -Gojira


       


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OfflineTas75
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Joust]
    #19201161 - 11/28/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, since nobody else has asked, OP, how did you consume the mushrooms? If raw, you might have had a bit of bacterial food poisoning. It's not unheard of.


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OfflineThePump
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Tas75]
    #19201235 - 11/28/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

they were halfway through the drying process and eaten straight.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Tas75]
    #19201313 - 11/28/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

ThePump said:
they were halfway through the drying process and eaten straight.



Quote:

Tas75 said:
If raw, you might have had a bit of bacterial food poisoning. It's not unheard of.




It would have kicked in at least as early as the end of his trip, I'm quite sure.

My own experiences with food poisoning have been roughly 6 hours after ingestion.


--------------------




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OfflineIcyus
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #19201345 - 11/28/13 03:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What I have learned from hawayan shamanism is that all sickness come from prolonged muscle-contractions.. Ie.. stress, anger and anxiety of which would mean that you threw up because your body(which is also your subconsciousness) senced something strange and you as the consciouss mind interpreted this as a sort of error in the body, thus reacting with anxiety and with that the body chose to try ridding itself of this error...

with a good focus one may stay calm and peaceful and not get sick.


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Re: poisoned? [Re: Icyus]
    #19201357 - 11/28/13 03:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

lol, good one


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Re: poisoned? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #19202495 - 11/28/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Anglerfish said:
It would have kicked in at least as early as the end of his trip, I'm quite sure.

My own experiences with food poisoning have been roughly 6 hours after ingestion.




Hi Anglerfish,

In that case, I'd say you've probably only been exposed to viral food poisoning (e.g. rotaviruses, noroviruses), which take as little as 2 hours to show first symptoms, and often self-corrects after 8-12 hours. Bacterial food poisonings usually have a longer incubation period (but can be as quick as 6 hours) and can last as long as a week, but normally 2-3 days, i.e. Salmonella. Of course it's all hypothetical, but since food safety was my provious field, I'm familiar with types of faecal contaminations and their symptoms...


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Tas75]
    #19202795 - 11/28/13 10:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's super interesting, I did not realize that there were two types of food poisoning.  How does viral food poisoning happen? 

I assume bacterial food poisoning is either from rotten food, or from contaminated water used for crops. 

Can both types of food poisoning vectors be fixed by cooking?

One food safety / dumpster diving expert that I know says that if you heat meat to 165 degrees, it becomes safe, even if it came from the dumpster.  Does that apply to both bacteria and viruses?  And is he correct?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Tas75]
    #19202824 - 11/28/13 10:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tas75 said:
Bacterial food poisonings usually have a longer incubation period (but can be as quick as 6 hours) and can last as long as a week, but normally 2-3 days, i.e. Salmonella. Of course it's all hypothetical, but since food safety was my provious field, I'm familiar with types of faecal contaminations and their symptoms...




Really?  I've drank old ass water from my car and felt symptoms of food poisoning within an hour, which I can only assume from straight water was bacterial.  (it smelled bad as well, which I didn't notice till after I swallowed) Am I mistaken?
Vinegar took care of it as it does for most food poisoning if you catch it in time...

Alan - as a side note, my brother told me about an experiment where a guy left chicken out for days and days, totally rotten disgusting awfulness.  Ate it and drank apple cider vinegar with it, no problems.  I'm assuming bacterial would be the cause there but who knows, acidity apparently takes care of a lot of problems.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Re: poisoned? [Re: Forrester]
    #19203315 - 11/29/13 01:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the problem with fucking anecdotal evidence is that often, its just plain fucking wrong.  your stomach is naturally acid, if memory serves around pH 2, so any vinegar added to it does little to acidify your stomach contents any further.  If anything, it might be a weak buffer.  that said, thats exactly why a lot of bacteria that you consume do die, but the ones that get by inside undigested food or like an acid environment don't.

also anyone that lets chicken rot and then eats it to prove a point has a few screws loose and shouldn't be trusted for advice on wiping ones ass.
oh, and you should probably not drink anymore 'old ass water' either.

Just sayin'.


--------------------
bite my basidiocarp


Edited by RuralAnomaly (11/29/13 01:19 AM)


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Re: poisoned? [Re: RuralAnomaly]
    #19203423 - 11/29/13 02:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I wouldn't be surprised if it's not uncommon for people to get sick from not properly cleaning wild mushrooms. Since you don't cook psilocybes before consuming, there are lots of things in the environment that could give you gastrointestinal problems. One in particular off the top of my head would be Giardiasis.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19203455 - 11/29/13 02:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
That's super interesting, I did not realize that there were two types of food poisoning.  How does viral food poisoning happen? 

I assume bacterial food poisoning is either from rotten food, or from contaminated water used for crops. 

Can both types of food poisoning vectors be fixed by cooking?

One food safety / dumpster diving expert that I know says that if you heat meat to 165 degrees, it becomes safe, even if it came from the dumpster.  Does that apply to both bacteria and viruses?  And is he correct?




Viral contamination can be prevented by good hygiene practices

Bacterial Food poisoning in our countries is mainly due to poor hygiene practices, crossed contamination between foods or handlers - Food. There are many bacteria which may harm you that already exist in your organism (and are only pathogenic in a determined higher amount or if they get to produce their toxin) só it's important for people WHO handle Food to have a very good hygiene. Some bactéria are heat sensitive but their toxin is not (Clostridium perferigens for example).


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Tas75]
    #19203699 - 11/29/13 06:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tas75 said:
In that case, I'd say you've probably only been exposed to viral food poisoning (e.g. rotaviruses, noroviruses), which take as little as 2 hours to show first symptoms, and often self-corrects after 8-12 hours. Bacterial food poisonings usually have a longer incubation period (but can be as quick as 6 hours) and can last as long as a week, but normally 2-3 days, i.e. Salmonella. Of course it's all hypothetical, but since food safety was my provious field, I'm familiar with types of faecal contaminations and their symptoms...




My one experience with food poisoning must have been bacterial then - I got bad sushi
which left me violently sick for three days. Projectile vomiting etc. Skin color had a greenish
tint.

Symptoms came abrubtly about 6 hours past consumption.


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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: poisoned? [Re: koods]
    #19203707 - 11/29/13 06:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I wouldn't be surprised if it's not uncommon for people to get sick from not properly cleaning wild mushrooms. Since you don't cook psilocybes before consuming, there are lots of things in the environment that could give you gastrointestinal problems. One in particular off the top of my head would be Giardiasis.



This is one of the reasons I always make tea instead of eating raw mushrooms.I'm sure a quick boil should kill most if not all bacteria and any other unwanted things like parasite eggs that some slugs and snails can leave behind.


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Offlinepouihi
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19203778 - 11/29/13 06:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, soil is one of the best sources of contamination - bacteria and intestinal parasites.


--------------------


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite."


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19203793 - 11/29/13 07:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Blue-FunGuy said:
Quote:

koods said:
I wouldn't be surprised if it's not uncommon for people to get sick from not properly cleaning wild mushrooms. Since you don't cook psilocybes before consuming, there are lots of things in the environment that could give you gastrointestinal problems. One in particular off the top of my head would be Giardiasis.



This is one of the reasons I always make tea instead of eating raw mushrooms.I'm sure a quick boil should kill most if not all bacteria and any other unwanted things like parasite eggs that some slugs and snails can leave behind.




Are there any particulars regarding dung loving mushrooms? I remember as a child always
being told to stay well clear of horse dung for the risk of Tetanus. Wondering if this would
apply to cinctulus hunters...


--------------------




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OfflineBlue-FunGuy
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #19203971 - 11/29/13 08:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I've done my share of picking cinctulus from horse dung and have never been sick.Not sure about the Tetanus risk,never heard about it.:shrug:
I used to eat them fresh after washing but eating live maggots was not a pleasant experience so after learning drying the mushrooms the maggots would crawl out and die,I no longer eat them fresh and always make tea.


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OfflineAnglerfishM
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Blue-FunGuy]
    #19204018 - 11/29/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Blue-FunGuy said:
I've done my share of picking cinctulus from horse dung and have never been sick.Not sure about the Tetanus risk,never heard about it.:shrug:




Well, in Norway at least, one gets a mild vaccine against it as newborn, then a stronger
one at the age of 13 ot 14, can't remember. It is probably not a huge health problem
anymore, but apparently was in pre-auto ages, with all those horses horsing about
the streets and whatnot.


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Offlinepseudotsuga
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Registered: 06/29/11
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Re: poisoned? [Re: Anglerfish]
    #19204085 - 11/29/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yep Tetanus vaccines are common everywhere now thankfully, but tetanus needs punctured skin to infect us and thrives mostly in anaerobic environments. Heroin users are the most at risk for contracting the disease.


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Invisiblebloodworm
cube con·nois·seur
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Registered: 05/22/10
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Re: poisoned? [Re: pseudotsuga]
    #19204776 - 11/29/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i've eaten plenty of raw cubes and cyans directly out of dung and have never been sick...
im definitely not saying, it isn't possible though.


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Offlinenomadbrad
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Registered: 10/23/06
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Re: poisoned? [Re: bloodworm]
    #19204868 - 11/29/13 01:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

After washing P.allenii off in a small tub of water and noticing long swimming/crawling parasites in the left over spore slurry, I decided fresh specimens will no longer be consumed by me.  I'm ok with the occasional fly and beettle larvae but those long skinny tape worm looking guys I can't stomach.


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Offlinekoods
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Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,053
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Re: poisoned? [Re: nomadbrad]
    #19204894 - 11/29/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The 2012 ovoid season, my finds were always loaded with maggots. They were so bad if I didn't clean and dry them immediately, within a couple hours the mushrooms would be so riddled with tunnels they would disintegrate when you picked them up. The bottom of my dessicator was littered with little dried up worms.

I didn't see a single one this past season.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineTas75
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Registered: 04/12/12
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Re: poisoned? [Re: koods]
    #19205342 - 11/29/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry for the long absence,

Both types (bacterial and viral) can be caused by human faecal contamination of water. A bacterial example from water is the various Vibrio species, among which is cholera. They can also be caused by faecal contamination from animal sources, and poor food handling. Salmonella and E. coli are the most common bacterial causative agents, and are most often associated with poor hygene in food preparation. Sushi is a common vector, as are egg and dairy products.

Flies are common spreaders of faecal contamination in outdoor areas.

All that said, I've eaten plenty of raw mushrooms, and never got food poisoning from them. When I was at university I sometimes would get a tender stomach after tripping on Psilocybe subaeruginosa, but not enough to vomit or get diarrhea.


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