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InvisibleSet
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: White Beard]
    #19198016 - 11/27/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.



Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence.  It happened.


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    classic LOVELINE


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: stoned ape theory [Re: maddad]
    #19198027 - 11/27/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maddad said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.




There is actually good evidence supporting a lot of the claims. Aside from the fact that since humans have been know to be drawn to altered states since before writing or language was invented. Maybe do a little more research before you go and nay say something so quickly. Sure it may sound like a crack-pot theory but what truths do we hold now that weren't at one point?




Please link a source showing that altered states/tripping has some correlation to changes in genetic material. If there's actual evidence then I'd be genuinely interested to see it.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
    #19198029 - 11/27/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Set said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.



Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence.  It happened.




well, yeah, but there's no evidence as far as I'm aware that tripping had any influence on it.


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: White Beard]
    #19198059 - 11/27/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.




Someone should do this.


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InvisibleSet
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: White Beard]
    #19198061 - 11/27/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Quote:

Set said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.



Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence.  It happened.




well, yeah, but there's no evidence as far as I'm aware that tripping had any influence on it.



That's the theory.

We have evidence of cognitive evolution in human ancestors, evidence of human ancestors residing in grassy plains, evidence that large ungulates who lived on those grassy plains are a part of the life cycle of psilocybin mushrooms...

However, the point of whether or not the Stoned Ape theory is a hypothesis or theory is perhaps moot on this site. 

We're just talking about the ideas man.  :rave:


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: White Beard]
    #19198067 - 11/27/13 07:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Quote:

maddad said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.




There is actually good evidence supporting a lot of the claims. Aside from the fact that since humans have been know to be drawn to altered states since before writing or language was invented. Maybe do a little more research before you go and nay say something so quickly. Sure it may sound like a crack-pot theory but what truths do we hold now that weren't at one point?




Please link a source showing that altered states/tripping has some correlation to changes in genetic material. If there's actual evidence then I'd be genuinely interested to see it.



You can look this up I don't feel like it, but cocaine usage in males can cause genetic mutations that make their offsprings less likely to become addicted to cocaine. It's not tripping but it is an altered state nonetheless.


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Offlinemaddad
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Registered: 11/20/13
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: White Beard]
    #19198076 - 11/27/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's not necessarily the genetic mutations he was referring to. He credits them for opening the doors to things like language and art and dance. Things that separate us from other animals. It has been show that even taking psilocybin once can inhance your creativity. We are 95% the same genetically as a chimp. Maybe its possible that mushrooms are our missing link.

I'm not saying that I 100% believe in all this but I'm not just going to throw it out the window either.


--------------------
I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: White Beard]
    #19198089 - 11/27/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:

Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.




That would prove nothing except that psilocybin is a a mutagen, and possibly a carcinogen.


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Invisiblemillzy
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
    #19198106 - 11/27/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Set said:
Quote:

White Beard said:
I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.



Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence.  It happened.




that's like saying that the world itself is evidence for a teleological god creating it. yes we developed bigger brains that allowed us to reason and plan for the future. we also developed a differently shaped larynx that allowed us to formulate words in order to communicate our ideas. but this stuff took a long time, and we can't assume that mushrooms had anything to do with those developments. even in the case for mushrooms playing some role in helping develop language, my initial reservation would be regarding the fact that those types of mushrooms wouldn't be growing everywhere people were. we also don't know how much of those it would take to cause that sort of change over what i would presume would be long periods of time. assuming mushrooms even cause those types of changes, i would surmise that you would have to have repeated exposure to large amounts of them over long periods of time. early people were nomadic and mushrooms are hardly ubiquitous so that doesn't seem to add up to me.

i think it's plausible, or even probable, that early humans did come into contact with psychedelics and that relationship has persisted over time. but anything beyond that is pure conjecture for me.


Edited by millzy (11/27/13 08:11 PM)


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: stoned ape theory [Re: mylfgur]
    #19198115 - 11/27/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

White Beard said:

Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.




That would prove nothing except that psilocybin is a a mutagen, and possibly a carcinogen.




Unless we could prove that there are a significant amount of mutations are somehow beneficial to increased awareness.


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InvisibleSet
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: White Beard] * 1
    #19198124 - 11/27/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
Quote:

physicist said:
Quote:

Set said:
It's a theory.


I love McKenna, but in the same way I love some of my crackpot uncles.  They're interesting and a lot of fun to hang out with.




Pretty much this.

Also, how would one go about proving/disproving this theory?




Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.



The theory indicates that psilocybin may have increased perceptual awareness and self-awareness in a pre-modern human brain. 

I.e. increasing hunting and social skills, resulting in increased opportunities to breed, as well as increased desires to breed.

If the lab rats hold a "Burning Rat" celebration the lab rat concept may be some proof.


or





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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: stoned ape theory [Re: maddad]
    #19198135 - 11/27/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maddad said:
It's not necessarily the genetic mutations he was referring to. He credits them for opening the doors to things like language and art and dance. Things that separate us from other animals. It has been show that even taking psilocybin once can inhance your creativity. We are 95% the same genetically as a chimp. Maybe its possible that mushrooms are our missing link.

I'm not saying that I 100% believe in all this but I'm not just going to throw it out the window either.




Then it sounds more like a social science theory than a biological theory. Personally, I could easily accept drugs played a part, either minor or major, in the development of early civilization. There is quite a deal of evidence that drug usage was a major component of religious development in India, south america and other places, and back then religion was the unifying glue of society. What I can't buy is that they some how influenced our biological evolution.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
    #19198138 - 11/27/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Set said:





I think this :thumbup:


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Offlinehidenseek1
Its got all the dinks.
Registered: 12/22/12
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: White Beard]
    #19198147 - 11/27/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

didnt read thread, but i doubt we evolved because of mushrooms, i say the opposite, due to mushrooms(all drugs really, especially that devil weed) *and* a bottleneck of 10,000 individuals, there is now a high rate of mental illness and retardation


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You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
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OfflineUltron
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: hidenseek1]
    #19198154 - 11/27/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

maybe the human mind did use it as a tool to expand but it chose that substance to have that effect.


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Invisibledeadwk
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
    #19198159 - 11/27/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I think it's a nice theory, do I think it's practical/realistic? Not really.


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Invisible4HO-DMT
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
    #19198201 - 11/27/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What about deer?  Deer have been observed eating psychedelic mushrooms and weed and probably opium too. Should we presume that deer only recently started altering there minds?  There are deer in many cave paintings. How come deer don't own houses and money etc.?


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #19198206 - 11/27/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

physicist said:
What about deer?  Deer have been observed eating psychedelic mushrooms and weed and probably opium too. Should we presume that deer only recently started altering there minds?  There are deer in many cave paintings. How come deer don't own houses and money etc.?




maybe the deer painted the paintings.


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Invisibledeadwk
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Registered: 06/17/09
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
    #19198210 - 11/27/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Okay, their eating psychedelic mushrooms, I fail to see what that proves? :shrug:

Just because one thing does something (like eating mushrooms) doesn't automatically mean they become conscious or that's how our consciousness evolved.


The Stoned Ape theory was all talk, absolutely no verifiable factual evidence.


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OfflineUltron
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: millzy]
    #19198217 - 11/27/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

the deer people are the true higher beings


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