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Ultron
alchemist programmer




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stoned ape theory
#19197748 - 11/27/13 06:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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so whats your guys opinion on the stoned ape theory.
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FruitOfLife
Professional Package Handler


Registered: 05/21/12
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
#19197777 - 11/27/13 06:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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100% spot on
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Quote:
FruitOfLife said: 100% spot on

I find it to be more likely than some other theories about evolution... like that aliens came and implanted dna in primates or some shit.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
#19197827 - 11/27/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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sounds unlikely. Also, no empirical evidence, so it's basically a 'what if' question, and 'what if' questions make me
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mylfgur
Untitled



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You guys are kidding, right?
As for the ridiculous video, 10,000 BC? Civilizations were around back then.
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Nova

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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
#19197843 - 11/27/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: mylfgur]
#19197851 - 11/27/13 06:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mylfgur said: You guys are kidding, right?
As for the ridiculous video, 10,000 BC? Civilizations were around back then.
"In his book Food of the Gods, McKenna proposed that the transformation from humans' early ancestors Homo erectus to the species Homo sapiens mainly had to do with the addition of the mushroom Psilocybe cubensis in its diet - an event which according to his theory took place in about 100,000 BC (this is when he believed that the species diverged from the Homo genus)."
It's supposed to be 1000,000 BC
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maddad
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Quote:
White Beard said: sounds unlikely. Also, no empirical evidence, so it's basically a 'what if' question, and 'what if' questions make me 
No empirical evidence because who in there right mind would put forth the funding for the research required? And even worse if it was found to be true! How would the world react to discovering that we evolved from tripping monkeys? That would be more detrimental then proving that say Mormonism or scientology was the real answer.
I'm my book its a very solid theory, from a man a highly respect for the doors he has opened for many people. And even McKenna himself always questioned his own theories, saying that if you don't contradict yourself then you don't have an interesting enough point of view to listen to.
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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Set
candy colored clown


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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron] 1
#19197884 - 11/27/13 07:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's a theory.
I love McKenna, but in the same way I love some of my crackpot uncles. They're interesting and a lot of fun to hang out with.
--------------------
classic LOVELINE
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: maddad]
#19197943 - 11/27/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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sigh. There's no big conspiracy in the scientific community where scientists are afraid of getting the modern scientific view challenged. Even 'far out ideas'. QM and relativity are far out, but that didn't stop them from getting backing from evidence.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
#19197947 - 11/27/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
Edited by White Beard (11/27/13 07:29 PM)
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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it's an interesting hypothesis that doesn't have a shred of evidence supporting it.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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Set
candy colored clown


Registered: 10/03/08
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Loc: right near da beach
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wat
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classic LOVELINE
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
#19197975 - 11/27/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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edited. dunno why that happened.
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
#19197981 - 11/27/13 07:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Set said: It's a theory.
I love McKenna, but in the same way I love some of my crackpot uncles. They're interesting and a lot of fun to hang out with.
Pretty much this.
Also, how would one go about proving/disproving this theory?
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Ultron
alchemist programmer




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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19197986 - 11/27/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said:
Quote:
Set said: It's a theory.
I love McKenna, but in the same way I love some of my crackpot uncles. They're interesting and a lot of fun to hang out with.
Pretty much this.
Also, how would one go about proving/disproving this theory?
get some monkeys high lol
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
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Loc: County Line Road
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron] 1
#19197992 - 11/27/13 07:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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"...And then, the monkey came to the realization that he was a monkey!"
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Ultron
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19198000 - 11/27/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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we are simple tool making apes
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maddad
Stranger
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Quote:
White Beard said: I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
There is actually good evidence supporting a lot of the claims. Aside from the fact that since humans have been know to be drawn to altered states since before writing or language was invented. Maybe do a little more research before you go and nay say something so quickly. Sure it may sound like a crack-pot theory but what truths do we hold now that weren't at one point?
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19198014 - 11/27/13 07:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said:
Quote:
Set said: It's a theory.
I love McKenna, but in the same way I love some of my crackpot uncles. They're interesting and a lot of fun to hang out with.
Pretty much this.
Also, how would one go about proving/disproving this theory?
Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.
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Set
candy colored clown


Registered: 10/03/08
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Quote:
White Beard said: I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence. It happened.
--------------------
classic LOVELINE
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: maddad]
#19198027 - 11/27/13 07:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
maddad said:
Quote:
White Beard said: I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
There is actually good evidence supporting a lot of the claims. Aside from the fact that since humans have been know to be drawn to altered states since before writing or language was invented. Maybe do a little more research before you go and nay say something so quickly. Sure it may sound like a crack-pot theory but what truths do we hold now that weren't at one point?
Please link a source showing that altered states/tripping has some correlation to changes in genetic material. If there's actual evidence then I'd be genuinely interested to see it.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
#19198029 - 11/27/13 07:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Set said:
Quote:
White Beard said: I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence. It happened.
well, yeah, but there's no evidence as far as I'm aware that tripping had any influence on it.
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Quote:
White Beard said: Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.
Someone should do this.
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Set
candy colored clown


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 6,383
Loc: right near da beach
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Quote:
Set said:
Quote:
White Beard said: I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence. It happened.
well, yeah, but there's no evidence as far as I'm aware that tripping had any influence on it.
That's the theory.
We have evidence of cognitive evolution in human ancestors, evidence of human ancestors residing in grassy plains, evidence that large ungulates who lived on those grassy plains are a part of the life cycle of psilocybin mushrooms...
However, the point of whether or not the Stoned Ape theory is a hypothesis or theory is perhaps moot on this site.
We're just talking about the ideas man.
--------------------
classic LOVELINE
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Quote:
maddad said:
Quote:
White Beard said: I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
There is actually good evidence supporting a lot of the claims. Aside from the fact that since humans have been know to be drawn to altered states since before writing or language was invented. Maybe do a little more research before you go and nay say something so quickly. Sure it may sound like a crack-pot theory but what truths do we hold now that weren't at one point?
Please link a source showing that altered states/tripping has some correlation to changes in genetic material. If there's actual evidence then I'd be genuinely interested to see it.
You can look this up I don't feel like it, but cocaine usage in males can cause genetic mutations that make their offsprings less likely to become addicted to cocaine. It's not tripping but it is an altered state nonetheless.
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maddad
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It's not necessarily the genetic mutations he was referring to. He credits them for opening the doors to things like language and art and dance. Things that separate us from other animals. It has been show that even taking psilocybin once can inhance your creativity. We are 95% the same genetically as a chimp. Maybe its possible that mushrooms are our missing link.
I'm not saying that I 100% believe in all this but I'm not just going to throw it out the window either.
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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mylfgur
Untitled



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Quote:
White Beard said:
Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.
That would prove nothing except that psilocybin is a a mutagen, and possibly a carcinogen.
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
#19198106 - 11/27/13 08:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Set said:
Quote:
White Beard said: I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence. It happened.
that's like saying that the world itself is evidence for a teleological god creating it. yes we developed bigger brains that allowed us to reason and plan for the future. we also developed a differently shaped larynx that allowed us to formulate words in order to communicate our ideas. but this stuff took a long time, and we can't assume that mushrooms had anything to do with those developments. even in the case for mushrooms playing some role in helping develop language, my initial reservation would be regarding the fact that those types of mushrooms wouldn't be growing everywhere people were. we also don't know how much of those it would take to cause that sort of change over what i would presume would be long periods of time. assuming mushrooms even cause those types of changes, i would surmise that you would have to have repeated exposure to large amounts of them over long periods of time. early people were nomadic and mushrooms are hardly ubiquitous so that doesn't seem to add up to me.
i think it's plausible, or even probable, that early humans did come into contact with psychedelics and that relationship has persisted over time. but anything beyond that is pure conjecture for me.
Edited by millzy (11/27/13 08:11 PM)
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: mylfgur]
#19198115 - 11/27/13 08:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
mylfgur said:
Quote:
White Beard said:
Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.
That would prove nothing except that psilocybin is a a mutagen, and possibly a carcinogen.
Unless we could prove that there are a significant amount of mutations are somehow beneficial to increased awareness.
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Set
candy colored clown


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 6,383
Loc: right near da beach
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Quote:
White Beard said:
Quote:
physicist said:
Quote:
Set said: It's a theory.
I love McKenna, but in the same way I love some of my crackpot uncles. They're interesting and a lot of fun to hang out with.
Pretty much this.
Also, how would one go about proving/disproving this theory?
Get a bunch of lab rats. Feed one group psilocybin, the other is control. Do dna tests on their off spring. Continue for a few generations. If there is a statistically significant increase in genetic mutations, then that could be a start. You could also test the groups on problem solving tasks, or whatever that could test for heightened awareness.
The theory indicates that psilocybin may have increased perceptual awareness and self-awareness in a pre-modern human brain.
I.e. increasing hunting and social skills, resulting in increased opportunities to breed, as well as increased desires to breed.
If the lab rats hold a "Burning Rat" celebration the lab rat concept may be some proof.
or
--------------------
classic LOVELINE
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: maddad]
#19198135 - 11/27/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
maddad said: It's not necessarily the genetic mutations he was referring to. He credits them for opening the doors to things like language and art and dance. Things that separate us from other animals. It has been show that even taking psilocybin once can inhance your creativity. We are 95% the same genetically as a chimp. Maybe its possible that mushrooms are our missing link.
I'm not saying that I 100% believe in all this but I'm not just going to throw it out the window either.
Then it sounds more like a social science theory than a biological theory. Personally, I could easily accept drugs played a part, either minor or major, in the development of early civilization. There is quite a deal of evidence that drug usage was a major component of religious development in India, south america and other places, and back then religion was the unifying glue of society. What I can't buy is that they some how influenced our biological evolution.
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White Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 6,325
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
#19198138 - 11/27/13 08:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Set said:

I think this
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hidenseek1
Its got all the dinks.
Registered: 12/22/12
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didnt read thread, but i doubt we evolved because of mushrooms, i say the opposite, due to mushrooms(all drugs really, especially that devil weed) *and* a bottleneck of 10,000 individuals, there is now a high rate of mental illness and retardation
-------------------- You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right -------------------------------------------------------------------------- pons asinorum -------------------------------------------------------------------------- lsd and the vietnam war changed music forever
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Ultron
alchemist programmer




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maybe the human mind did use it as a tool to expand but it chose that substance to have that effect.
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deadwk
00101011


Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 8,890
Loc: Canada, eh?
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
#19198159 - 11/27/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it's a nice theory, do I think it's practical/realistic? Not really.
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
#19198201 - 11/27/13 08:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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What about deer? Deer have been observed eating psychedelic mushrooms and weed and probably opium too. Should we presume that deer only recently started altering there minds? There are deer in many cave paintings. How come deer don't own houses and money etc.?
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19198206 - 11/27/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said: What about deer? Deer have been observed eating psychedelic mushrooms and weed and probably opium too. Should we presume that deer only recently started altering there minds? There are deer in many cave paintings. How come deer don't own houses and money etc.?
maybe the deer painted the paintings.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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deadwk
00101011


Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 8,890
Loc: Canada, eh?
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19198210 - 11/27/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Okay, their eating psychedelic mushrooms, I fail to see what that proves? 
Just because one thing does something (like eating mushrooms) doesn't automatically mean they become conscious or that's how our consciousness evolved.
The Stoned Ape theory was all talk, absolutely no verifiable factual evidence.
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Ultron
alchemist programmer




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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: millzy]
#19198217 - 11/27/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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the deer people are the true higher beings
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: deadwk]
#19198224 - 11/27/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It doesn't prove anything. It suggests that the stoned ape theory doesn't have supporting evidence.
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
#19198225 - 11/27/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonathan9301 said: the deer people are the true higher beings
Yeah, as in alot higher.
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deadwk
00101011


Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 8,890
Loc: Canada, eh?
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19198226 - 11/27/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I misinterpreted your post then, my apologies!
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4HO-DMT


Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 5,073
Loc: County Line Road
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: deadwk]
#19198230 - 11/27/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's cool man.
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Ultron
alchemist programmer




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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19198234 - 11/27/13 08:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said:
Quote:
jonathan9301 said: the deer people are the true higher beings
Yeah, as in alot higher. 
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Set
candy colored clown


Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 6,383
Loc: right near da beach
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: millzy]
#19198245 - 11/27/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude, space out your posts. It's a PITA to quote you 
Quote:
millzy said:
Quote:
Set said:
Quote:
White Beard said: I wouldn't call it a theory because theories require evidence.
Human evolution, especially evolution of the human brain is part of the evidence. It happened.
that's like saying that the world itself is evidence for a teleological god creating it. yes we developed bigger brains that allowed us to reason and plan for the future.
wat
Quote:
we also developed a differently shaped larynx that allowed us to formulate words in order to communicate our ideas. but this stuff took a long time, and we can't assume that mushrooms had anything to do with those developments. even in the case for mushrooms playing some role in helping develop language
No shit. We can't assume it did. It's a theory as to how pre-modern humans (who presumably had a larynx, based on morphology) were more apt to be successful in communicating with their peers.
Quote:
my initial reservation would be regarding the fact that those types of mushrooms wouldn't be growing everywhere people were.
This would be in the southern half on Africa, where we know modern humans evolved based on the archeological record. We also know they were living in the plains in the latter years.
Quote:
we also don't know how much of those it would take to cause that sort of change over what i would presume would be long periods of time. assuming mushrooms even cause those types of changes, i would surmise that you would have to have repeated exposure to large amounts of them over long periods of time. early people were nomadic and mushrooms are hardly ubiquitous so that doesn't seem to add up to me.
The theory isn't about direct genetic changes from psilocybin exposure. It could have been small populations that were more cooperative, more successful, and fucked more based on exposure to psilocybin. Perhaps more successful beating other pre-modern human clans in war-like activity, which would have increased breeding opportunities and food opportunites, thus increasing their size and relative impact.
Quote:
i think it's plausible, or even probable, that early humans did come into contact with psychedelics and that relationship has persisted over time. but anything beyond that is pure conjecture for me.
It isn't proof, it's a theory.
--------------------
classic LOVELINE
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Set]
#19198364 - 11/27/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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it's a hypothesis, not a theory. i did misinterpret the first part of your post though. i thought you said that the brain in its current state is evidence for stoned ape.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: 4HO-DMT]
#19198378 - 11/27/13 09:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
physicist said: What about deer? Deer have been observed eating psychedelic mushrooms and weed and probably opium too. Should we presume that deer only recently started altering there minds? There are deer in many cave paintings. How come deer don't own houses and money etc.?
For starters recently deer have been pretty rapidly evolving to have more rod cells in their eyes, because that makes it so they can be more nocturnal, therefore less get killed in auto accidents/ during hunting.
And a deers brain is just simply not as complex as that of a primates. While butchering deer I've dissected their heads before, their brains are roughly the size of a walnut, our brains are so much more bigger and complex than that, really they're hard to compare.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy



Registered: 01/26/12
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I call BS on the theory.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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TrentBoyett
Aspiring Mycologist



Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 16,000
Loc: Kazakhstan
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Quote:
Bitter Cactus said: I call BS on the theory.
What about the derr and rod cells? or the cocaine and genetic mutations one?
The cocaine one is pretty strongly researched and agreed with, and I have actually dealt with it in real life, so I believe it to be true...
and the deer thing is not a theory, it's literally happening right before our eyes, I'm not really claiming it's from mushrooms or anything, but it's definitely happening.
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Shroomopotamus
Happy Mushrooming




Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 18,757
Loc: Funkotron
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I believe in the the Stoned Ape Theory. Have before I ever heard of it. The somewhat recent studies of psilocybin being proven to be able to create new brain cells gives it more plausibility than ever. Mushrooms in a sense, are my religion.
-------------------- * Live by the mushroom, die by the mushroom
    This is a trap! A trap! You are all busted! Busted! You fools!
If a time comes where I fail to appear I've been abducted and I will miss you all Please smile and pet puppies as often as possible Be happy Be nice (<3);}
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Ultron
alchemist programmer




Registered: 08/04/13
Posts: 751
Loc: inner sanctum of the cosm...
Last seen: 3 months, 3 days
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Quote:
Shroomopotamus said: I believe in the the Stoned Ape Theory. Have before I ever heard of it. The somewhat recent studies of psilocybin being proven to be able to create new brain cells gives it more plausibility than ever. Mushrooms in a sense, are my religion.
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millzy


Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,404
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: Ultron]
#19202588 - 11/28/13 08:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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such a wide gap between knowledge and belief.
-------------------- I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger
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thelanzii

Registered: 11/13/12
Posts: 5,434
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Re: stoned ape theory [Re: millzy]
#19202692 - 11/28/13 09:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It is quite the interesting theory
I think environment in general still has a huge effect on the way people are
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