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OfflineOliveaux
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Registered: 11/12/13
Posts: 40
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
hallucinogens vs other drugs
    #19196150 - 11/27/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Hi friends,

After my own long and complex history with drug use (/abuse) I've been thinking about societal as well as personal attitudes towards different substances and I'm interested in your thoughts.

I was thinking today about all the research, preparation and emphasis on set and setting that we (well, people generally) get into before tripping and how great that is. I am a big believer in using drugs and entheogens thoughtfully even if they're still just for fun! What's funny though is that so many people, and i'm guilty of this myself, somehow skip these elements when the substance isn't hallucinogenic under the (in my opinion incorrect) belief that they don't affect the mind and nothing can go wrong.

Personally I used to be addicted to meth, which was terrible of course, and in retrospect I and everyone around me was absolutely mentally impaired including in terms of sensory input, grip with reality etc.. Negative environments could lead to paranoia and even hallucinations and psychosis. I have pulled a friend off the street who was stripped naked aside from his shorts (lost his shirt, shoes, keys, wallet etc) and trying to get into fistfights with police. He was convinced he was being framed for murder but if the police hit him first, they couldn't arrest him (???). I've wandered around fucked up on a cocktail of benzoes, alcohol, opiates and goodness knows what else and woken up the next day with blue hair and no memory of what the fuck I did!!

So I guess my questions are

- why is it that people think that things like set and setting and thoughtfulness aren't important with non-hallucinogenic drugs?

- do you agree that these things are in fact important as well or am I on my own with this?

- do you think in terms of negative effects, uppers are worse for psychosis/potential for bad experiences? I've yet to have an experience i'd call a real trip (a natural tolerance maybe? idk) but i've sure as shit lost my marbles on meth. I've read as well on this site of people who've had just a pinch while tripping and gone off the deep end

and a bit of a tangent

- have you found alcohol to induce negative effects usually associated with hallucinogens?? (i havent but friends of mine swear it can)

remember kids, fly responsibly :crazy2:


--------------------
“To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never to forget.”


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OfflineBrown Buffalo
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Registered: 09/14/13
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Re: hallucinogens vs other drugs [Re: Oliveaux]
    #19196229 - 11/27/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

1. Because probably they fear more what they can see under psycs whether what they can see without psychs but on uppers. Ill explain a little: Im not afraid at all with psychs except when I need to be at work. But when it goes down to uppers, well, it twist me up when my friends need uppers just to be happy. I still like them on summer nights when you just take the dog for hours long walks, non stop chatting, but I hate the need for them to be happy. It makes me paranoid

2. Im with you, I take uppers only if I like the situation. I had some unpleasant experiences with them and I now understand the importance. I still prefer them when we're just 2 ppl walking the dog all night whether in a small enviroment with mostly druggy ppl. sometimes I dont take them even on raves, if Im on good vibe and have enough alcool

3. Well, I had both bad experiences on uppers and on psychs. But definately worse the one on psych. Nothing really bad to be honest, a little bit of fear since I wasnt satisfied with the setting and I started to see aliens instead of my friends. So I just closed my eyes for the further 3 hours and slept. In the near future I couldnt realize what happened so it took some time for me to understand the whole thing. Id say something like 2 to 3 months of subtle stress, not heavy at all. With uppers I just had some paranoia one night and didnt enjoyed the situation because it twisted me up a lot. It was one of my first times and the setting wasnt good so I was able to be back in great shape after one or two weeks, maybe three.
Cant still judge what is more dangerous, since I love psychs and Id never have tried uppers if it wasnt for friends, but still had my worse experience on psychs. I think it all depends on persons: scary people shouldnt try psychs, even if also reuptake from some uppers is fucking heavy on first timers, or at least thats what I felt.


--------------------
"..Here I am, inside the bunker, behind mental steel walls 90 psycho-centimeters thick.."



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OfflineAgentchewy
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Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 3,960
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Re: hallucinogens vs other drugs [Re: Oliveaux]
    #19196252 - 11/27/13 12:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Uppers have a high potential for psychotic behavior,

alcohol will help make your decisions stupid on hallucinogens especially if you take enough.

one or two beers helps with the come up anxiety though.

you sound like you either need to try a cracker dry eighth-quarter of mushrooms or look into ayahuasca ceremonies.

Check out this video on ayahuasca, be fucking careful as this is the single most powerful experience a human could endure.


Set and setting are not as important on drugs that don't involve visuals and strange thought patterns because when you snort coke its still "you" but when you take a quarter of mushrooms 75% of the time, you forget who you are, what you are, or that you are.

set and setting is important with any drug but with psychedelics you need to realize how incredibly high youre getting haha.


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If I knew the way, I would take you home.


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OfflineBrown Buffalo
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Re: hallucinogens vs other drugs [Re: Brown Buffalo]
    #19196383 - 11/27/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, and alcool, I forgot. Im fond of alcool and last weekend we had 4 bottles of wine in three person while on 1.5 250ug blotters each. Everyone enjoyed it, and it was our first time with lucy, while for a female friend of mine was the first time with psychs at all.
I think it all depends on how you handle both psychs and alcool, and how sage is your dosing depending on your experience.
I never tried it with heavy mush doses but I fear it could be twisting if your set ends up unsatisfying, while it gave me great times with moderate doses.


--------------------
"..Here I am, inside the bunker, behind mental steel walls 90 psycho-centimeters thick.."



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OfflineAgentchewy
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Re: hallucinogens vs other drugs [Re: Brown Buffalo]
    #19196433 - 11/27/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

if youre very fond of alcohol it sounds like your ego is a very important part of what makes you, you.


psychedelics in high doses will rip your ego from you. and if you truly took that much LSD you would have lost yourself. I think you took 25i Nbome which is benign on the mindfuck part of the trip but comes with minor visuals. look for the natural psychedelics before you tread in chemist territory where they can tell you anything they want to make some money.


--------------------


If I knew the way, I would take you home.


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OfflineBrown Buffalo
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Re: hallucinogens vs other drugs [Re: Agentchewy]
    #19196485 - 11/27/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I think it was real sid since duration was ok. It was a trusted source that claimed lab tests but what helped us probably was wrong redosing. We started with one and when realized we wasnt having a full mindblast we decided to take one more half but it was late, almost two hours after first one. That made the trip a little bit longer but not that heavier. 4.30 hours more or less, with 45-60 minutes of initial wait. And the blotters were about 225 each one, sorry for the mistakes.
For what concern the trip itself it wasnt more mindfuck than visual, even after all that wine (and I wasnt eating since 14 hours before, in fact I suffered pretty strong nausea on the coming up) my mind was still clear, even if everything was breathing and moving.
That's why Im planning on two blotters next time, or maybe 1.5 on one dose. Gotta decide. And yeah ego is a pretty strong part of myself, atleast in this part of my life, but not that strong. I love alcool because I brew beer, and I almost cant stand booze. I love the magic in its recipes.


--------------------
"..Here I am, inside the bunker, behind mental steel walls 90 psycho-centimeters thick.."



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InvisibleLand_Crab
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Registered: 08/29/04
Posts: 2,194
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Re: hallucinogens vs other drugs [Re: Oliveaux]
    #19196916 - 11/27/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Oliveaux said:
- why is it that people think that things like set and setting and thoughtfulness aren't important with non-hallucinogenic drugs?



It's not that they aren't important with other drugs, it's that their importance and impact are typically magnified with hallucinogens.  Part of the reason is because the sensory effects are at least half the experience (and directly affected by the stimuli in a given setting), while the other half of the experience impacts the mind in often-profound and novel ways that most other classes of drugs do not.
Most other recreational substances provide a simpler and more predictable experience.  If you're falling-down drunk it's not going to matter as much if it happens at the Grand Canyon vs. a gas station parking lot as it would if you were on peyote--where the setting colors and helps direct the experience.   

Quote:


- do you think in terms of negative effects, uppers are worse for psychosis/potential for bad experiences? I've yet to have an experience i'd call a real trip (a natural tolerance maybe? idk) but i've sure as shit lost my marbles on meth. I've read as well on this site of people who've had just a pinch while tripping and gone off the deep end



It's hard to compare uppers and hallucinogens.  The negative effects from uppers are usually more cumulative, whereas the potential bad experiences from hallucinogens are more "spontaneous" or "of-the-moment".  People use these substances in different ways and for different reasons, which is why it's hard to compare.


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