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OfflineAuechre
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Frank's tek, Coir not expanding
    #19194712 - 11/26/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Greetings all! **EDIT** My initial problem/question is solved (thank you), but have a quick question regarding my pasteurization attempt here at the bottom))

I'm trying to do FrankHorrigan's bulk tek and for some reason I keep screwing up on the coir as it's not fully expanding.

I put 1 eco-earth coir brick in the bucket, 2 qts of fine grade verm, and 5qts room temp h20- let it hydrate an hour or so.

The result was a great excess of water and clumps of coir that didn't fully disintegrate, even after diligent mixing. I do want to pasteurize properly, but my concern is that if the coir doesn't fully break up then the dry parts inside the tiny clumps might escape pasteurization leading to contams. 

I proceeded to break up the pieces the best I could and create field capacity, but I'm still hesitant to go forward. Will pasteurizing correctly hydrate these clumps and make everything viable? I'm just not sure where to go or what to change from here.

Thanks!!

-Auechre


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"It is not the world that needs peace; it is people. When people in the world are at peace within, the world will be at peace"

Edited by Auechre (11/27/13 05:29 PM)

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OfflineDannyDGAF
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: Auechre]
    #19194723 - 11/26/13 11:45 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I used boiling water and it literally grew 6 times its size.  I think you need boiling water not room temp water.


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OfflineDannyDGAF
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: DannyDGAF]
    #19194726 - 11/26/13 11:46 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I also used eco-earth bricks.  Definitely the issue.


--------------------
"You tell him, and I will smack you. I will smack you like a bad, bad donkey!"


Our dreams are a second life. I have never been able to penetrate without a shudder those ivory or horned gates which separate us from the invisible world.


"In order to use your head, you have to go out of your mind" -  Tim Leary

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OfflineAuechre
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: DannyDGAF]
    #19194733 - 11/26/13 11:50 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not trying to pasteurize it in the bucket, though. Which is what the boiling is used for like damion's tek. I've used that only once successfully, so I decided to go for Frank's tek, hoping for something more stable. But I can't seem to get the coir to workout for me.

To fix my current situation, I'd need to know if pasteurizing coir that didn't fully expand on its own is okay to work with of if I should just scratch and try and do it modified/better.


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"It is not the world that needs peace; it is people. When people in the world are at peace within, the world will be at peace"

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Offlinesilverstem
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: Auechre]
    #19194745 - 11/26/13 11:52 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

use dameions tek to expand the brick then franks tek to pasturize it.


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OfflineDannyDGAF
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: silverstem]
    #19194749 - 11/26/13 11:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ah I misread the original post sorry but deff :whathesaid:


--------------------
"You tell him, and I will smack you. I will smack you like a bad, bad donkey!"


Our dreams are a second life. I have never been able to penetrate without a shudder those ivory or horned gates which separate us from the invisible world.


"In order to use your head, you have to go out of your mind" -  Tim Leary

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OfflineAuechre
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: DannyDGAF]
    #19194753 - 11/26/13 11:57 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I already have substrate perhaps ready to use, though. I'm curious if I can still work with it or if I should toss it.

Does it matter if coir gets full disintegrated? Or can I just pick the small pieces apart (dry inside) with my fingers then throw it in jars to pasteurize when at field capacity?



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"It is not the world that needs peace; it is people. When people in the world are at peace within, the world will be at peace"

Edited by Auechre (11/26/13 11:58 PM)

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Offlinesilverstem
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: Auechre]
    #19194769 - 11/27/13 12:03 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

since your pasteurizing you can use ur fingers to break it down just make sure its at field capacity... dont get it too saturated.


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OfflineAuechre
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: silverstem]
    #19194788 - 11/27/13 12:12 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That's my plan. I'm a little paranoid because I attempted damion's tek a few months ago, and even after boiling water was added the brick did not 100% expand. I had no choice to use that particular substrate and it ended up contaminating. I know alot of factors can influence that, but I had a feeling it was because parts of that coir obviously didn't get pasteurized if it was dry inside.

What's different for me this time is that I'm breaking apart those clumps, getting to field capacity, THEN pasteurizing. So my thoughts are pasteurizing will hydrate the tiny bits of coir and form viable substrate at the end of the process.

:fork:


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"It is not the world that needs peace; it is people. When people in the world are at peace within, the world will be at peace"

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Offlineshroomseng
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: Auechre]
    #19194813 - 11/27/13 12:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I'm a newb but here's my advice
mix the coco and the water first,
let it expand
then add verm after


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Offlinemushrume man
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: shroomseng]
    #19194906 - 11/27/13 01:20 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Don't pasteurize until its evenly wetted. I have yet to work with coir but I think you need to squeeze it and really mash it to get it to sponge up a bit. I've had potting soil do this before.


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OfflineAuechre
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: mushrume man]
    #19196192 - 11/27/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Is there a significant difference between wet coir at field capacity and dry(er) coir at field capacity?

Dunno if it's a stupid question, but I'm trying to get the right knowledge here.

I reprocessed a new brick and it expanded fine (probably just a bad one before). There was still a bit too much water so I added another 1.25qt of verm and it "squeezes to field capacity" now. But I'm wondering if it's a deal breaker to have it on the wetter side than the dryer side I've read is better.


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"It is not the world that needs peace; it is people. When people in the world are at peace within, the world will be at peace"

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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: silverstem]
    #19196204 - 11/27/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

silverstem said:
since your pasteurizing you can use ur fingers to break it down just make sure its at field capacity... dont get it too saturated.




yea dude, use ur hands, I hate breaking up coir dry but thats cause I use less than a brick, but I get it into chunks the size of mini wheats then dump water on them, let sit for 5 minutes and go at it with ur hands takes 10-15 minutes.  There might still be small corn kernel sized pieces you feel, but after pasteurizing they should go away, if not, then when u r spawning to bulk, dump the sub in first, and mix around before the spawn and see if u can feel it, and take them out if its worrying you.

I'd say common for ppl to keep it on the drier side of field, it will help myc take over faster and if u r dunking ur grains before spawning, it will equal out in the end.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: blindingleaf]
    #19196279 - 11/27/13 12:36 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, holy crap, this conversation is silly.

Some coir bricks are compressed very firmly, and I've noticed older ones can be a bit more of a pain to expand.

Use hot water from the tap, or even just warm water.

Don't boil it if you are going to do a proper pasteurization, it defeats the purpose. Just do the bucket tek in that case.

If your brick doesn't expand within 30 minutes, get in there with something and break it apart a bit. Use your hands, a tool, whatever you need to.

Sometimes it just won't expand at all, but I've only had to toss a half dozen coir bricks (out of many hundreds) that just would not expand no matter how hot the water. It happens.

Coir is a repurposed waste product, quality control is basically non-existent.


--------------------

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Edited by FrankHorrigan (11/27/13 12:42 PM)

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Offlinemushrume man
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19196758 - 11/27/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for weighing in on that, it's nice to have the finer points spelled out, could you add that to the original verm coir thread?

Thanks for all your help!


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19196842 - 11/27/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Sometimes it just won't expand at all, but I've only had to toss a half dozen coir bricks (out of many hundreds) that just would not expand no matter how hot the water. It happens.




I have never had this problem in over a decade of growing. The worst I see if little tiny patches of partially expanded coir that are easily broken up. If nothing else, you could use water at like 130F (or hotter than tap but under pasteurization temps) to expand it and then load it up to pasteurize.

It also helps to have the coir actually on the bottom of the bucket and the verm on top of that. That way all the excess moisture that's absorbed slowly (and naturally sits on the bottom until then) is directly touching your coir.

Personally, I throw a brick, 2 qts of verm and a pinch of lime in a bucket, dump water at 175-180F in it and let it sit for 90 minutes. Hasn't failed me yet unless my spawn was bad.


--------------------
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i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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OfflineAuechre
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #19197461 - 11/27/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Hey man thanks for clearing up the coir predicament for me. I went ahead and used another brick and a little less water and seemed to generate a good field capacity as well.

Though, when using the stove process I didn't catch that the temps weren't rising above 144. I should have raised the temp at that point to keep it between the 140-160f range. So basically it got up to 145 then tapered down to 138 the last 8 minutes.

Sine it was below for the last 8min, can and or should I redo the process without affecting the substrate too much?? Thanks mang (:


--------------------
"It is not the world that needs peace; it is people. When people in the world are at peace within, the world will be at peace"

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: Auechre]
    #19197469 - 11/27/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

If you pasteurized for more than 60 minutes, I wouldn't worry. If it was less, I'd let it sit out for a few days to get some contam spores and bacteria back in it, rehydrate it to field capacity and pasteurize again.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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OfflineAuechre
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #19197512 - 11/27/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

36fuckin5 said:
If you pasteurized for more than 60 minutes, I wouldn't worry. If it was less, I'd let it sit out for a few days to get some contam spores and bacteria back in it, rehydrate it to field capacity and pasteurize again.




Gotcha. But if I let it get to 137 @ the 52min mark, does that mean I automatically failed? I quickly upped the heat even though I was a little late and now it's sitting at 155 for the last 15 minutes or so. I know coir is pretty versatile so I'm feeling like it's okay.  :shrug:


--------------------
"It is not the world that needs peace; it is people. When people in the world are at peace within, the world will be at peace"

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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Frank's tek, Coir not expanding [Re: Auechre]
    #19197543 - 11/27/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

That should be good. I'd use it.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.

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