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shopdropper
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Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail
#19194004 - 11/26/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/11/13/ronald_phillips_lethal_injection_ohio_is_turning_capital_punishment_into.html
Update, Nov. 13, 4:46 p.m.: The Columbus Dispatch reports that Ohio Gov. John Kasich has stayed the execution of Ronald Phillips, in a decision that has absolutely nothing to do with the untested and potentially dangerous drug combination with which the state was planning to inject him. Phillips had previously requested to donate his heart and one of his kidneys to two family members, and the Dispatch reports that Kasich has postponed the exection in order to "determine if his organs can be harvested." The execution has been rescheduled for July 2, 2014.
On Thursday the state of Ohio is scheduled to inject a convicted child rapist and murderer named Ronald Phillips with a two-drug cocktail that begins with the sedative midazolam hydrochloride and ends with the painkiller hydromorphone. The two drugs have never been used in concert to kill a man, and as such, nobody knows how well they will work. There’s a chance, then, that Phillips’ death will be a painful and prolonged one, potentially violating the Eighth Amendment’s ban on cruel and unusual punishment. And yet the state of Ohio will proceed anyway, seemingly not caring that it’s conducting a ghastly, inhumane lab experiment.
Drugging a man to death is a tricky business. Most states use a multi-drug “cocktail” that sedates an inmate before paralyzing him and stopping his heart. If the sedative wears off too quickly, or doesn’t take effect for a while, then the inmate might remain awake and aware for the rest of the process, suffering great pain. For years, though, most states used the same combination of drugs, which meant that there was eventually plenty of data on how those drugs worked and how to avoid the worst possible outcomes.
In recent years, European drug manufacturers have decided to stop selling the standard anesthetics—sodium thiopental and pentobarbital—for use in executions. Since then, states have been scrambling to find viable pharmaceutical alternatives, each of which comes with its own set of questions. How long will the drug last? How long before it takes effect? How much should be administered? How quickly should it be administered? Because there is no body of research that would answer these questions, states are learning the answers as they go along. And the condemned inmates are the guinea pigs in these deadly experiments.
In October, Florida executed a man named William Happ using a three-drug cocktail that kicked off with midazolam, a fast-acting sedative that had never before been used in a lethal injection context. (This is the same drug that will be used to sedate Ronald Phillips.) At the time, there was much concern over how well the drug would work, and the answer, it seems, was not very well. After Happ’s death, the Associated Press reported that he “remained conscious longer and made more body movements after losing consciousness than other people executed recently by lethal injection under the old formula.” As Molly Redden recently wrote at Mother Jones, one reporter who witnessed Happ’s execution this October said, “I thought he would never die.”
There are similar worries with hydromorphone, which is being used in an execution for the first time. Ohio will basically just be guessing as to the amount of hydromorphone it will take to kill Ronald Phillips. But if they guess wrong, it could be disastrous. Too little, and Phillips might not die; too much, and he might die very, very painfully. Mother Jones’ Redden interviewed an Ohio State clinical surgery professor who notes that “effects of a hydromorphone overdose include an extreme burning sensation, seizures, hallucination, panic attacks, vomiting, and muscle pain or spasms.” A Harvard anesthesiology professor says that an overdose of hydromorphone might make Phillips “feel as though he were choking to death.”
It’s worth remembering why Ronald Phillips is on death row in the first place. In 1993, he raped and murdered his girlfriend’s 3-year-old daughter. Phillips’ crime is disgusting, and certain people might find it appropriate if Phillips’ death is horrific and tortuous as the one suffered by his victim. But poetic justice is not actual justice. “Let’s try these drugs, they’ll probably work” should not be a valid execution protocol. And states should not be allowed to experiment with men’s lives, no matter how worthless we think those lives have been.
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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Repertoire89
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: shopdropper]
#19194141 - 11/26/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
shopdropper said:
In recent years, European drug manufacturers have decided to stop selling the standard anesthetics—sodium thiopental and pentobarbital—for use in executions. Since then, states have been scrambling to find viable pharmaceutical alternatives, each of which comes with its own set of questions.

Great job, take away the anesthetics whoopty do.
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Magicman69
All About the Benjamins



Registered: 05/29/13
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Repertoire89]
#19194344 - 11/26/13 09:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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So basically the child rapists gets to OD all peacefully... chimos should get the chair
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backintheriver


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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: shopdropper]
#19194421 - 11/26/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i think this is the most humane lethal injection combo u can get. its hilarious that the writer is questioning whether they can kill someone with it.
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Ok amoismis
metabolizer



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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: shopdropper]
#19194432 - 11/26/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't understand why these people are all dumbfounded on to how to kill somebody by combining tranquilizers and opiates together. It's not like no one has ever died from an overdose on hydromorphone before. I'm sure there's LD50 information available from the animal studies that must have taken place in order for these drugs to be used medically.
Calculate the probable lethal amount of each drug involved according to his body weight (mg/kg).
Administer.
I don't see how it's apparently so complicated. Do they not have pharmacologists/anesthesiologists working for them?
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Ok amoismis
metabolizer



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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Ok amoismis]
#19194449 - 11/26/13 10:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I guess the complicated part must be trying to calculate the exact amount that will kill him peacefully and not cause unpleasant overdose symptoms?
What does it matter though really? He will still be high as fuck on benzodiazepines and opiates, I doubt it would be unbearable for the few minutes before he dies.
Plus, like Magicman69 said, this person is a child rapist/murderer. Whether or not he vomits or has a seizure, overdosing will still be a much more comfortable death than the one he inflicted upon the toddler he killed.
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mr sniffles
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Registered: 06/03/13
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Ok amoismis]
#19194466 - 11/26/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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they should have done this years ago.
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Atrium
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Ok amoismis]
#19194541 - 11/26/13 10:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ok amoismis said: I guess the complicated part must be trying to calculate the exact amount that will kill him peacefully and not cause unpleasant overdose symptoms?
What does it matter though really? He will still be high as fuck on benzodiazepines and opiates, I doubt it would be unbearable for the few minutes before he dies.
Plus, like Magicman69 said, this person is a child rapist/murderer. Whether or not he vomits or has a seizure, overdosing will still be a much more comfortable death than the one he inflicted upon the toddler he killed.
Ask my brother the correct dosage to die from an OD on the two.
I'd say just load this guy up with a good 10x the dose of sedative and 5x the opiate and he'll be gone quickly.
-------------------- The only thing about Chemistry I like is all the psychedelics that come from it. The only reason I study Psychology is to have a legitimate excuse to enjoy Chemistry.
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Repertoire89
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Magicman69]
#19195184 - 11/27/13 06:05 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magicman69 said: So basically the child rapists gets to OD all peacefully... chimos should get the chair
There are more than enough falsely accused executed in this country to worry about how humane a death they get.
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Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Ok amoismis]
#19195216 - 11/27/13 06:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
Quote:
Magicman69 said: So basically the child rapists gets to OD all peacefully... chimos should get the chair
There are more than enough falsely accused executed in this country to worry about how humane a death they get.
Agreed. I am very much against the death penalty for many reasons, I am glad it doesn't exist where I live.
Quote:
Ok amoismis said: I don't understand why these people are all dumbfounded on to how to kill somebody by combining tranquilizers and opiates together. It's not like no one has ever died from an overdose on hydromorphone before. I'm sure there's LD50 information available from the animal studies that must have taken place in order for these drugs to be used medically.
Calculate the probable lethal amount of each drug involved according to his body weight (mg/kg).
Administer.
I don't see how it's apparently so complicated. Do they not have pharmacologists/anesthesiologists working for them?
It's not so much that no one knows combining opiates and tranquilizers can be lethal. That isn't the point. Many drug cocktails are lethal. The tricky part is finding one that provides a peaceful death.
-------------------- Yes this is tymo - I just changed my name Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to awake from that dream? How would you know the difference between that dream world and the real world? There is NOTHING better than feeling that warm dissociative fuzz creeping up your body from IM K Something abut that anaesthetic rush... Qualitative Research Chemical Effects and Experiences The Wonderful World of Methoxetamine The 3-Meo-PCP Chapters, Part One
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Beanhead
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Cyclohexylamine]
#19195263 - 11/27/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Aren't Barbiturates deemed a death of peace and tranquillity whilst Opiate/Benzo overdose is very painful?
This is bad.
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shopdropper
Professional Psychonaut


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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Beanhead]
#19195670 - 11/27/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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hydromorphone rush is quite intense feels like your heart s gonna stop! lol its my favorite rush right behind a good IV dose of morphine then heroin. lately heroin is giving me a painful firey-itchy-pins and needles rush, its not that pleasant anymore.
why dont we just manufacture the stuff that we need since europe quit surely the patent is up??
-------------------- DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME: no guarantees can be made about the accuracy of the information herein. The information dicussed in these posts is purely hypothetical, and for intelectual purposes only. Any similarity between internet chat and real life is pure coincidence.
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Camwritesgonzo
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: shopdropper]
#19196226 - 11/27/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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You know what's a really peaceful way to die? A double tap between the eyes. Take your pick for tools of the trade, but 2 bullets is a helluva lot cheaper way to snuff somebody than giving them an overdose on drugs. Hell, it would even save on alcohol swabs. The families of the deceased and the harmed are always so adamant about seeing the perpetrator put to death, but they always want it clean and neat so nobody is traumatized. With a lethal injection, it looks like the person is going to sleep. Awwww.... how peaceful. When the death penalty is sought, the family who chooses to go through with it has the blood of the accused on their hands. I firmly believe they should have to bear witness to that blood being shed when the accused is executed. If they didn't want to be haunted by the death of the accused, they should have pushed for life without parole.
-------------------- "I've always maintained that reality is for those who can't face drugs."-Tom Waits "I feel the same way about disco as I feel about herpes."-Hunter S. Thompson A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
 
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travelleler
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Camwritesgonzo]
#19196665 - 11/27/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Camwritesgonzo said: You know what's a really peaceful way to die? A double tap between the eyes. Take your pick for tools of the trade, but 2 bullets is a helluva lot cheaper way to snuff somebody than giving them an overdose on drugs. Hell, it would even save on alcohol swabs. The families of the deceased and the harmed are always so adamant about seeing the perpetrator put to death, but they always want it clean and neat so nobody is traumatized. With a lethal injection, it looks like the person is going to sleep. Awwww.... how peaceful. When the death penalty is sought, the family who chooses to go through with it has the blood of the accused on their hands. I firmly believe they should have to bear witness to that blood being shed when the accused is executed. If they didn't want to be haunted by the death of the accused, they should have pushed for life without parole.
honestly--- death by hanging costs less as the rope can be re-used over and over. It is also most humane because a significant drop to the end of the rope, say 6ft or more, dislocates the head from the spine causing an instantaneous death with minimal suffering. It happens so quickly, and with the traditional black hood placed over the head of the person facing the execution nobody has to see the bulging eyes or blood coming out of the nose. It's way faster and less traumatic than lethal OD, gas chamber, or electric chair- and it costs a lot less.
--------------------

"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
Edited by travelleler (11/27/13 02:03 PM)
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: travelleler]
#19197100 - 11/27/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm 100% behind shooting over any other method, quick, easy, cheap. Personally I'd much rather be shot than hung, especially due to the fail rate of hangings.
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Ellis Dee
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: shopdropper]
#19197141 - 11/27/13 04:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't see the big deal. The only inhumane thing about it is the anxiety of waiting for the needle or the noose or whatever other contraption they use. If it was death by slow torture I guess I can see an issue with it but there's not pliers or thumbscrews involved so...
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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Repertoire89
Cat



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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19197155 - 11/27/13 04:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said: I don't see the big deal. The only inhumane thing about it is the anxiety of waiting for the needle or the noose or whatever other contraption they use. If it was death by slow torture I guess I can see an issue with it but there's not pliers or thumbscrews involved so...
Actually I'm kind of against the death penalty, in the sense that we should just bring back gladiatorial combat. Rapists / murderers can fight to live another day until they fail.

The arena's weren't usually to the death either, seriously need to bring that shit back.
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roquet
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Camwritesgonzo]
#19198060 - 11/27/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Camwritesgonzo said: The families of the deceased and the harmed are always so adamant about seeing the perpetrator put to death, but they always want it clean and neat so nobody is traumatized. With a lethal injection, it looks like the person is going to sleep. Awwww.... how peaceful.
I wonder if that is the reason. Lethal injection, gas chamber and the electric chair seem like strange ways of carrying out capital punishment. It's like they're trying to take responsibility for the act away from an individual and give it to a machine.
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huffinglue
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: roquet]
#19198240 - 11/27/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm totally against the death penalty. People are getting out of jail all the time for crimes they didn't commet in the first place. I'm sure people have been put to death for things they didn't even do. And even if its just one person, that's too many.
That's just my opinion though.
-------------------- I fucking hate grammer nazis! Yes, I can't spell. Yes, I don't have perfect grammer. I post from my phone and dont give a shit about people whose lifes are so boring they get off on putting people down for not having perfect fucking grammer, even though they know excactly what there saying.. Fuck You. It's just a ride mang...
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niteman

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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: huffinglue]
#19199174 - 11/28/13 02:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Capital punishment is idiotic. Nuff said
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Beanhead
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: shopdropper]
#19199458 - 11/28/13 06:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
shopdropper said: hydromorphone rush is quite intense feels like your heart s gonna stop! lol its my favorite rush right behind a good IV dose of morphine then heroin. lately heroin is giving me a painful firey-itchy-pins and needles rush, its not that pleasant anymore.
why dont we just manufacture the stuff that we need since europe quit surely the patent is up??

This is interesting for the future, hopefully we get that patent:)
Edited by Beanhead (11/28/13 06:04 AM)
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setb
10th level beer nerd

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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: huffinglue]
#19199628 - 11/28/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
huffinglue said: I'm totally against the death penalty. People are getting out of jail all the time for crimes they didn't commet in the first place. I'm sure people have been put to death for things they didn't even do. And even if its just one person, that's too many.
That's just my opinion though.
It's hardly "all the time" and the standards of evidence for capital crimes is very high these days.
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Repertoire89
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: setb]
#19200099 - 11/28/13 10:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm in full support of gladitorial fights to the death as a means of execution, but the death penalty is a viable alternative. Frankly I don't think its used enough those Stubenville kids need to get capped.
All this apologetic bs makes me sick.
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travelleler
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: huffinglue]
#19200532 - 11/28/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
huffinglue said: ... I'm sure people have been put to death for things they didn't even do....
it's called "Lynching"
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Neller
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: roquet]
#19202789 - 11/28/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
roquet said:
Quote:
Camwritesgonzo said: The families of the deceased and the harmed are always so adamant about seeing the perpetrator put to death, but they always want it clean and neat so nobody is traumatized. With a lethal injection, it looks like the person is going to sleep. Awwww.... how peaceful.
I wonder if that is the reason. Lethal injection, gas chamber and the electric chair seem like strange ways of carrying out capital punishment. It's like they're trying to take responsibility for the act away from an individual and give it to a machine.
This is totally the reason for these machines.
Insert quarter in slot. Watch man die. Go home and have a nice family dinner and never feel the guilt for killing a man.
It amazes me that people are ok with killing as long as it meets certain criteria.
"Where the executioner's face is always well hidden." -Dylan
-------------------- "If there’s one generational difference I notice between my parents’ generation and mine, is that my generation values time over money. And not because we’re lazy either, but because we’re not willing to trade time with the people we love most for a gold watch at retirement." -BRETT Reaching for heaven is what I'm on earth to do.
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travelleler
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Re: Hydromorphone used in lethal injection coctail [Re: Neller]
#19206339 - 11/29/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
"Where the executioner's face is always well hidden." -Dylan
word
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"Whales have deep thoughts"
Dreams are the fuel of the soul
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