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maddad
Stranger
Registered: 11/20/13
Posts: 242
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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reality check
#19193417 - 11/26/13 06:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'd like to bring about a debate I, and many other psychedelic enthusiasts, have been having with themselves. Is what you experience on psychedelics real? And there are many signs that point to the answer being yes. But it is something that can never be proven other than in speculation. They say life is what you make it, and life is made of experiences. So why wouldn't some of the most profound experiences you have ever had be considered real?
-------------------- I live in an aura of hope because I live in a twilight world of my own self-generated, cannabinated fantasy, and I forget that not everyone is so fortunate. - Terence McKenna
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: reality check [Re: maddad]
#19193446 - 11/26/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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in the end, the only thing that's real are thoughts, words, memories, and light. Everything else is bullshit.
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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LysergicX7
Lunatic



Registered: 11/11/12
Posts: 1,206
Loc: Montana, USA
Last seen: 1 month, 17 days
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What's more real than direct experience? The great thing about some of the experineces you have on psychedelics is that they can simply be recreated for MOST users. Not everybody experiences mystical states or whatever while under psychedelics but mostly people seem to.
Also begs the question what is real? And who am I? In order to answer your question, you'd probably have to answer those.
I remember a Mckenna talk where he was talking about DMT and considered it the "ultimate convincer". That to anybody who doubts this stuff simply need to set aside 10 minutes and take a couple puffs of smoke. Well I've never smoked DMT, but I have taken a large dose of mushrooms once and I could safely and confidently say without question that my experience was definitely a real experience. As a person who denounced drugs and was a advent atheist my whole life, I simply couldn't deny what I was experiencing on mushrooms. An intuitive knowing and understanding.
Is the nature of reality and my identity just illusory and transient? Are we all seperate manifestations of the same concioussness? Are we all really connected and stem from the same entity?
It's hard to say, although I'm convinced due to my experiences, and I've had people I've given psychedelics for the first time also come to the same conclusion. That they were truely the goddead. These kind of universal conclusions don't actually prove anything of course and these kinds of ideas have been around forever.
There is no way to prove anything to anybody other than yourself with psychedelics, and that's the beauty of it. You'll be able to experience it, but not to explain it or prove it. Psychedelics are not about concepts. They are about direct experience.
-------------------- “Everybody is fundamentally, the ultimate reality. Not god in the political kingly sense, but god in the sense of being the self – the deep down basic whatever there is. And you’re all that… only you’re pretending you’re not.” -Alan Watts I think that in human evolution it has never been as necessary to have this substance LSD. It is just a tool to turn us into what we are supposed to be.” ― Albert Hofmann
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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reality: what you accept blindly/from logic (thoughts) real: same as reality, different for all of us dream: something you can wake up from and not die in
but that is just how I view it :-)
something to be learned from each consciousness state/experience, any of them is equally real to me none of them might be real
but that doesnt mean we cant appreciate them anyway, it can be a good simulation 
"reality: what you accept blindly/from logic (thoughts)" what happens in lucid dreams is you reject your reality with your thoughts.. this is not real.... I am dreaming.. then you can control your reality 100% sometimes, when you realize it isnt real
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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the biggest reality check I have had has been "who am I?", like previous poster mentioned, in a psychedelic trip (LSD high dose)
damn... that got me mindfucked for 2 years and still does but now I know, not my thoughts, not this body :-) hasnt only been pleasant, but still worth it
Edited by lessismore (11/26/13 07:14 PM)
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GreySatyr
Pagan-Psyche


Registered: 06/20/13
Posts: 3,376
Loc: North Carolina
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Yes, the experience is real. It's a part of reality. It's all about how you integrate it and ground it into your reality.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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iamerror73

Registered: 09/14/13
Posts: 356
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Re: reality check [Re: maddad]
#19194158 - 11/26/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
maddad said: I'd like to bring about a debate I, and many other psychedelic enthusiasts, have been having with themselves. Is what you experience on psychedelics real? And there are many signs that point to the answer being yes. But it is something that can never be proven other than in speculation. They say life is what you make it, and life is made of experiences. So why wouldn't some of the most profound experiences you have ever had be considered real?
"If you ask me to tell you anything about the nature of what lies beyond the phaneron, my answer is, how should I know? I am not dismayed by ultimate mysteries, I can no more grasp what is behind such questions, as my cat can understand what is behind the clatter I make while I type this paragraph." That make me think of this quote for some reason
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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when a Buddhist monk was asked "what happens after death" the man replied "how should I know? im a monk, not a dead monk"
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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adastra80
Boss

Registered: 10/23/13
Posts: 50
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: reality check [Re: maddad]
#19194377 - 11/26/13 09:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
But it is something that can never be proven
Why do you say that?
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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PS..did you notice that penis envy's yields are almost twice as much as any other strain? that's how it was for me when I grew, anyway
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Not IME. I wish... 
PS
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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lol I grew b+ and other strains then when I grew penis envy I was blown away I was getting yields far greater than I ever saw
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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envy is real
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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Libertin
Absurdist


Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 959
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To answer your question by negation: how can anything you experience NOT be real?
That is to say, is it possible to experience something that is not real?
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: envy is real
Only on your terms. I see you boy
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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All it is, is your brain self communication being interfered with so they've come to believe.
I truly agree with Aldous huxley's perspective that:
-reality is an infinity of information,
-the mind is only a reducing valve that selectively focuses on a tiny narrow band of reality, and
-psychedelic experience allows us to open this valve alittle
That is "all" there is, essentially, to a psychedelic experience..imo
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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I agree, but when you say "that's all there is" it kind of reduces your other statements to rubble.
whether you intended it or not, it doesn't matter.
bill
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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"All" it is, is infinity. That's all.
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Don't say THATS ALL there is no need to add that part
bill
Edit: im trying to be a pinhead to your pinhead, if you didn't notice
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Cause ur trippin, mate
Actually I think there's at least 3 major perspectives on tripping, actually, 4. Essentially there's the Huxley perspective, which I fully identify with because it's pure truth.
Then there's the leary perspective. Loony toon O.o
Then there's the shaman perspective. Serious squallies :/
Then there's the "ima get fucked up yo"perspective. Nevermind that :S
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Tis the trinity. I appreciate your perspective
bill
Edit: i identify the Huxley perspective with the shamanic
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Yeah, he is similar to their perspective, but he's intellectual/analytical whereas they are spiritual. But Huxley was also spiritual, in a way.
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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CodeLion
Helix be Praised



Registered: 07/19/12
Posts: 907
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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I would like to quote Shulgin here, albiet used in a different manner than the original meaning of the story
Quote:
The master asked the student, “How do you follow a guide who cannot be seen, who walks through a dark forest in the middle of the night?” The student answers, “It is simple. Let him carry a light.” “But then, ” answers the teacher, “He is no longer the guide who cannot be seen.” “True, but at least I can now follow him, and I know where he goes.” “You must be aware you are following a different guide?” The student thinks for a minute, and then says, “Yes, of course I know that, but what else can I do?”
Consider our "normal" perception of reality to be the sober brain, following an invisible guide. Perhaps adding psychedelics is no different than handing the guide a lantern. But nonetheless it changes the nature of the perception in such a way that it is impossible to determine the reality of the perception.
-------------------- hmm...
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Quote:
MagicalOrangutan said: Yeah, he is similar to their perspective, but he's intellectual/analytical whereas they are spiritual. But Huxley was also spiritual, in a way.
I think Huxley was just a little off-his-rocker -
He calls it silver, I call it gold
bill
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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MagicalOrangutan
Curious Cat



Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 3,538
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Honestly I'll never know till I read all his books lol. I actually should be calling it the "hoffman" perspective. The scientific perspective. The objective perspective. The literal perspective. I love the way hoffman organized his thoughts and presented the material, he wasn't a professional writer who could superficially present his material in any way he wanted, he simply was a high iq, sane rational person who basically told it like it is.
-------------------- On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky We all need more love, and mainly less hate Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye That makes the heart's eye cry Locked deep away in the skies of our minds It's all in the mind
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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we don't need to know Huxleys view, to know hoffmans creation
bill
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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