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OfflineEllis Dee
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Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville
    #19191041 - 11/26/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.nj.com/somerset/index.ssf/2013/11/bridgewater_allegedly_received_fedex_package_with_lsd_at_tattoo_parlor.html#comments

Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville
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Bill Wichert/The Star-Ledger By Bill Wichert/The Star-Ledger
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on November 25, 2013 at 2:20 PM
tattoo-parlorA Bridgewater man has been charged with receiving a FedEx package containing LSD at a Manville tattoo parlor on Thursday, court documents state. In this June 2007 file photo, a tattoo artist inscribes portraits of two pug dogs onto a woman's arm.AP Photo/Kathy Willens

MANVILLE — A Bridgewater man has been accused of receiving a FedEx package containing LSD at a tattoo parlor in Manville on Thursday, court documents state.

Members of the Somerset County Prosecutor’s Office Organized Crime and Narcotics Task Force had received information that a package containing an unknown narcotic would be delivered to David Zecca, 30, at the business, according to an affidavit filed in Superior Court in Somerville.

Task force members set up surveillance of the exterior and the interior of Flash Tattoo, located at 212 S. Main St., in Manville, the affidavit states.

Soon after, a FedEx courier delivered the package and Zecca signed to accept it, the affidavit states. Task force members then identified themselves to Zecca and told him about the ongoing narcotics investigation, but he refused to allow them to search the package, the affidavit states.

A police dog from Scotch Plains later detected the presence of a controlled dangerous substance in the parcel, the affidavit states. After executing a search warrant for the package, authorities found more than 100 milligrams of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide, or LSD, the affidavit states.

Zecca was charged with possession of LSD with intent to distribute. He was sent to Somerset County Jail in lieu of $75,000 bail.


From one of the comments on the articles website:
Quote:

Very odd story Bill. Businesses receive packages all the time, do drug dogs really sniff LSD, I am pretty sure if I were at a business and signed for a delivery and the cops swooped in shouting Gotcha I would not allow them to search the package or premises without a warrant either.

Not to start a conspiracy but it all sounds too convenient, anonymous tip, unknown narcotic, knew when the "package" would arrive?



I couldn't agree more. This guy wins patsy of the year award. Someone framed like a picture and its obvious the dog did not actually smell the LSD. This guy is actually an innocent sucker so far as I can tell.


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And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19191063 - 11/26/13 09:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This reads like some one taking some watered down lucy and setting up some one they don't like to take a big fall.....


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Onlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19191084 - 11/26/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's possible to train a dog to scent for LSD--heck, they have dogs that can scent for cancerous cells, so it shouldn't be too surprising that they can scent off on LSD molecules as well.

I don't think it will be as common to encounter as pot/coke/dope smelling dogs--the amount of LSD required to catch a scent would probably also be enough to dose the dog--but they now make a pseudo LSD that matches the scent of actual LSD, to assist in training of dogs.

Quote:

Sigma-Aldrich Pseudo Narcotic Scent
LSD Formulation

Product No. P1334

SIGMA PSEUDO LSD FORMULATION is a canine training aid which can be used in training situations where the handling of potentially toxic, controlled substances would be inappropriate, such as initial training of a new dog or when train rig or demonstrating in front of large crowds. PSEUDO LSD is designed to mimic the odor of illicit lyserglic acid diethylamide (LSD). SIGMA PSEUDO LSD, like all SIGMA PSEUDO- products, is field tested and proven to provide the same canine response as authentic LSD, without the hazards.



http://leerburg.com/lsdform.htm

I too feel that this set up seems fishy, and we all know drug dogs have been used to false-positive more than once--but on the question of whether a dog actually could sniff out LSD, the answer is yes.


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19191160 - 11/26/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

100 milligrams, I wonder if that was crystal or they just weighed a sheet or something.

Poor fellow. :sad:

Then again, perhaps he'd done something horrible to deserve being set up like that. Or maybe not.

I'd like to imagine that the kind of people who work with crystal are good people but who knows what happened.


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Invisibletrampis
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19191170 - 11/26/13 10:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This is very suspect. It's highly unlikely that there are many (if any) dogs trained to sniff out LSD, and the odds of the police just happening to have the rare dog that is on hand. Also, it would seem highly probable that anything sent through the mail would be vacuum sealed. This reeks of horseshit. The cops probably gave some signal to the dog that in turn made it give them the signal that it had detected something.


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Offlineisic
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19191182 - 11/26/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Bullshit! That dog did not smell LSD! Even if dogs can be trained to sniff out LSD by using a "LSD smell alike" (which I highly doubt) chances are that whatever was in that package was NOT real LSD.

The chances of someone looking for real LSD rarely ends with them getting real LSD. There are so many other chemicals out there designed to "mimic" the effects of LSD that are also much easier to obtain and in some cases, completely legal. I highly doubt all these, many upon many chemicals out there that are designed to "mimic" the effects of LSD, have a similar odor to LSD.

The only thing being smelled here, is a set up of some degree!


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Invisiblejboredone
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: isic]
    #19191201 - 11/26/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it might of not sniffed out the lsd but the guy that sent the package just got done smoking some heady nugs......the nugs left an odor on his hands which got left on the lsd.....:awethumb:


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19191250 - 11/26/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Into The Woods said:
100 milligrams, I wonder if that was crystal or they just weighed a sheet or something.

Poor fellow. :sad:

Then again, perhaps he'd done something horrible to deserve being set up like that. Or maybe not.

I'd like to imagine that the kind of people who work with crystal are good people but who knows what happened.




sad to see confiscated crystal :frown:


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OfflineAtrium
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: jboredone]
    #19191257 - 11/26/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's quite frightening actually condsidering I have just recieved 4 hits of LSD in the mail. Then I realized that he had 100 MILLIGRAMS. What is that, 100,000ug? Then, also, with the reminder that it would "randomly" be known to be arriving... Something is up here.


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Atrium]
    #19191275 - 11/26/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jamesdnh said:
That's quite frightening actually condsidering I have just recieved 4 hits of LSD in the mail. Then I realized that he had 100 MILLIGRAMS. What is that, 100,000ug? Then, also, with the reminder that it would "randomly" be known to be arriving... Something is up here.




Don't be frightened. This surely has nothing to do with tracking actual LSD orders - especially of such small quantities like 4 tabs. It has to be a set up; that's the only way they could be so prepared to intercept the package.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: trampis]
    #19191303 - 11/26/13 10:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trampis said:
It's highly unlikely that there are many (if any) dogs trained to sniff out LSD, and the odds of the police just happening to have the rare dog that is on hand.




The shop is in Manville. The dog came from Scotch Plains.

They didn't have a "rare" dog on hand. They had to borrow one from another set of cops that are 16 miles away. 16 miles on Rt22 in NJ is probably a good 30 minutes each way.

From the article:

"A police dog from Scotch Plains later detected the presence of a controlled dangerous substance in the parcel, the affidavit states."


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191344 - 11/26/13 10:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

"A police dog from Scotch Plains later detected the presence of a controlled dangerous substance in the parcel, the affidavit states."




:aweshit:

I really don't think that a dog can be trained to detect LSD. If they had get a dog from somewhere else after they had already confiscated the package, wouldn't it make hundreds of times more sense just to do a chemical analysis on the substance, instead of asking a dog to follow his nose?


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19191383 - 11/26/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know if dogs can or not. I seen it argued both ways. If a dog can be trained to smell explosives, why can't they be trained to smell LSD?

However, a reading of the article shows they used the dog to obtain the warrant. They can't open the package without a warrant. Had they opened the package and done a chemical analysis of the substance without the warrant, likely it'd have been tossed in court.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinero-deez
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191407 - 11/26/13 11:00 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I call bullshit


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: ro-deez]
    #19191410 - 11/26/13 11:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Of course you do.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191463 - 11/26/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Even if dogs could sniff LSD, the likelihood of there being such a dog so readily available nearby is quite slim to none. Typically they are only trained to smell marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth, and cash. Anything else will require a specialty dog - more training - more $$$. Having a dog to detect LSD in an area where LSD is uncommon wouldn't make sense, even the cops know that would be a waste of time, training and money. We are also talking about an area that passes for "rural" by New Jersey's standards...


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Offlinemylfgur
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191469 - 11/26/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
I don't know if dogs can or not. I seen it argued both ways. If a dog can be trained to smell explosives, why can't they be trained to smell LSD?

However, a reading of the article shows they used the dog to obtain the warrant. They can't open the package without a warrant. Had they opened the package and done a chemical analysis of the substance without the warrant, likely it'd have been tossed in court.



Yeah, it's easier enough to train a dog to give the signal, or to just say that the dog gave the signal, than it is to actually train a dog to sniff packaged LSD--which I'm still a bit skeptical if it can be done at all.

However, Sigma-Aldrich offers a "synthetic" LSD smell for use in training canines, found here. I do think that it may just be another product for the shelf, though, and not have much real use. They likely got this guy in a sting and pretty much knew what was in the package in the first place. There's probably not many dogs trained on the synthetic smell, and like I said earlier, much easier to just pretend like the dog smelled it. :shrug:

Interesting topic though, I've never heard about anything like this before.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19191496 - 11/26/13 11:23 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
I really don't think that a dog can be trained to detect LSD.




LSD is odourless to humans, but not odourless in itself.

If you have an understanding of olfactory perception (the sense of smell), you will know that the process involves molecules binding to olfactory receptors--those molecules are generally light, volatile (easy to evaporate) chemicals that float through the air into your nose.

LSD fits this profile, and it is only do to lack of sensitivity on our part that we do not discern any scent. We would likely be tripping balls before the concentration reached high enough levels for us to become aware of the smell. But dogs? Scenthounds as a group smell somewhere between 1-10 million times more acutely than humans do. Bloodhounds have noses that work somewhere between 10-100 million times more effectively.

They have dogs that can smell cancerous cells. I repeat, they can differentiate between healthy cells and cancerous ones, using scent. Detecting a presence of LSD molecules in the air no longer seems like such a stretch.




end note: I'm aware drug dogs are used to give cops reasonable suspicion to preform a search, when no actual probable cause is there. I'm also aware that this story seems to be telling the tale of a setup. Put all that aside for now, and understand that it is possible for a dog to smell LSD.


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InvisibleJuicin
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19191508 - 11/26/13 11:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yea from what I understand each "skill" the dog has ups it's value. So pigs don't generally buy them with all possible skills, only those they feel they need. Granted there are probably dogs out there who can sniff out LSD. But why bother when the dog would almost never get a hit, waste of cash. Seems really odd to me that they would even have a dog with that skill available for something like that........

But it probably gets really frustrating when you raid a hippies house and can't find his stash. :lol:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19191515 - 11/26/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
Even if dogs could sniff LSD, the likelihood of there being such a dog so readily available nearby is quite slim to none. Typically they are only trained to smell marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth, and cash. Anything else will require a specialty dog - more training - more $$$. Having a dog to detect LSD in an area where LSD is uncommon wouldn't make sense, even the cops know that would be a waste of time, training and money. We are also talking about an area that passes for "rural" by New Jersey's standards...




:facepalm:

1. They had to travel to get the dog.
2. It doesn't matter what they are "typically" trained to do, only what this dog was trained to do.
3. I lived and worked in Manville. I went to school in Bridgewater. They are by no means rural.
4. When did cops ever worry about cost?
5. LSD is not hard to find in NJ.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: jboredone]
    #19191532 - 11/26/13 11:32 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jboredone said:
it might of not sniffed out the lsd but the guy that sent the package just got done smoking some heady nugs......the nugs left an odor on his hands which got left on the lsd.....:awethumb:



:whathesaid:.....:haha:


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: jboredone]
    #19191547 - 11/26/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That could very well be the case jboredone, which would be horrible business practice on their part.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #19191562 - 11/26/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

D.M.T said:
Even if dogs could sniff LSD, the likelihood of there being such a dog so readily available nearby is quite slim to none. Typically they are only trained to smell marijuana, cocaine, heroin, meth, and cash. Anything else will require a specialty dog - more training - more $$$. Having a dog to detect LSD in an area where LSD is uncommon wouldn't make sense, even the cops know that would be a waste of time, training and money. We are also talking about an area that passes for "rural" by New Jersey's standards...




:facepalm:

1. They had to travel to get the dog.
2. It doesn't matter what they are "typically" trained to do, only what this dog was trained to do.
3. I lived and worked in Manville. I went to school in Bridgewater. They are by no means rural.
4. When did cops ever worry about cost?
5. LSD is not hard to find in NJ.




they traveled 30 minutes. that's not traveling.... the likelihood is so off-base, it's clear you just want to argue that it's possible, which it is. but likely? nah.

east of Bridgewater and Manville is pretty rural for New Jersey. you're neglecting to mention that part. probably because you just want to argue. I've traveled your whole crummy state. only Mullica, west of Vineland, etc. are as rural. the rest is asshole stacked on top of asshole, as you would be a case in point.

also since when was new jersey known for LSD? only places I'm aware of that could be considered "hotspots" in the US are northern California and southern Oregon. It may be available but to say that LSD is a common drug law enforcement are pursuing in NJ is laughable.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19191581 - 11/26/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
they traveled 30 minutes. that's not traveling.... the likelihood is so off-base, it's clear you just want to argue that it's possible, which it is. but likely? nah.

east of Bridgewater and Manville is pretty rural for New Jersey. you're neglecting to mention that part. probably because you just want to argue. I've traveled your whole crummy state. only Mullica, west of Vineland, etc. are as rural. the rest is asshole stacked on top of asshole, as you would be a case in point.

also since when was new jersey known for LSD? only places I'm aware of that could be considered "hotspots" in the US are northern California and southern Oregon. It may be available but to say that LSD is a common drug law enforcement are pursuing in NJ is laughable.




You're quite wrong about "rural", but even if you weren't they got the dog from a police department in a decidedly unrural area.

It's not hard to be wrong. Step up and own it. You demonstrated you had lost the argument when you resorted to a flame.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19191610 - 11/26/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
also since when was new jersey known for LSD? only places I'm aware of that could be considered "hotspots" in the US are northern California and southern Oregon. It may be available but to say that LSD is a common drug law enforcement are pursuing in NJ is laughable.




Also, nice strawman filled rant.

I didn't say they were known for LSD.

I didn't say they were hotspots.

I didn't say it was a common drug that law enforcement was pursuing in NJ.

You can travel the state all you want. Having lived in it gives one a different perspective.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191624 - 11/26/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not wrong until proven so. Clearly the probability is in my favor as many law enforcement (not just the 'dont get caught' guy) have admitted police often cause the dog to go into false-positive mode, and LSD-sniffing dogs are very far and few between if they even do exist. Perhaps since you lived in Manville you could tell us, does Manville even have its own police dog? many municipalities do not and thus have to call in the nearest.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191630 - 11/26/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

such bullshit.  dog did not indicate drugs.  Fedex is a bad choice and guy shouldnt have agreed to let the search his package.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191644 - 11/26/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

D.M.T said:
they traveled 30 minutes. that's not traveling.... the likelihood is so off-base, it's clear you just want to argue that it's possible, which it is. but likely? nah.

east of Bridgewater and Manville is pretty rural for New Jersey. you're neglecting to mention that part. probably because you just want to argue. I've traveled your whole crummy state. only Mullica, west of Vineland, etc. are as rural. the rest is asshole stacked on top of asshole, as you would be a case in point.

also since when was new jersey known for LSD? only places I'm aware of that could be considered "hotspots" in the US are northern California and southern Oregon. It may be available but to say that LSD is a common drug law enforcement are pursuing in NJ is laughable.




You're quite wrong about "rural", but even if you weren't they got the dog from a police department in a decidedly unrural area.

It's not hard to be wrong. Step up and own it. You demonstrated you had lost the argument when you resorted to a flame.




Rural? Ha! Come to Colorado if you want to really know what rural is. There are patches of land out here with NO ONE there, that are probably bigger than the entire state of NJ.

Also, chances are MOST of the "LSD" you are getting in NJ isn't LSD at all. It is more probable that you are just getting another chemical (RC) designed to mimic the effects of LSD. True LSD is not easy to make and is quite rare, where as some of these "mimic"  research chemicals are easy to obtain, easy to make, all over the place and in some cases, even legal.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: jboredone]
    #19191645 - 11/26/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you're going to go that far you could just say the dog hit because the handler told it to......We all know this is what usually happens anyway.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ogla]
    #19191647 - 11/26/13 11:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

He didn't agree to a search, that's why they brought in the drug dog.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: isic]
    #19191659 - 11/26/13 11:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Colorado isn't even rural compared to say Borneo, but that's not the point. the point is that the area is rural for New Jersey, which happens to be the least rural state in the US. although they do have a real high number of horse farms. in fact agriculturally speaking New Jersey may even be superior to Colorado. (but of course everything else (besides soil and climate) about Colorado is superior to New Jersey


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19191734 - 11/26/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
I'm not wrong until proven so. Clearly the probability is in my favor as many law enforcement (not just the 'dont get caught' guy) have admitted police often cause the dog to go into false-positive mode, and LSD-sniffing dogs are very far and few between if they even do exist. Perhaps since you lived in Manville you could tell us, does Manville even have its own police dog? many municipalities do not and thus have to call in the nearest.




Probability doesn't mean shit in this case. What does matter is what happened. So unless you can point to evidence to the contrary you have no legs to stand on.

Manville did not have a drug dog when I lived there. Seeing as they had to bring a drug dog in from another town, it seems they still don't.


--------------------
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ogla]
    #19191738 - 11/26/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

losfreddy said:
such bullshit.  dog did not indicate drugs.




You can provide evidence?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: isic]
    #19191740 - 11/26/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have never been to Borneo, and I am sure it's pretty rural. But I guess Colorado (espesially eastern Colorado) is more desolate than rural. I have been to places where the only life around is knee high dead grass on completely flat ground as far as the eye could see. Not a tree, bird or insect in sight. The only sound around besides yourself is the wind moving through said grass and when I think of rural, I think of this. But that's just the plains. We have a pretty big state and I'm sure you can imagine how rural and inhabitable our Rocky Mountains can be.

Not sure about soil quality so I couldn't comment on that, and you might even be right about climate for the most part, but I will say that there is a month (mid Sept-mid Oct) where we have the best weather on the planet... and I used to live in San Diego. But outside of this month and a few good weeks in the spring, the rest of the year can go fuck itself! lol!


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19191750 - 11/26/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
If you have an understanding of olfactory perception (the sense of smell), you will know that the process involves molecules binding to olfactory receptors--those molecules are generally light, volatile (easy to evaporate) chemicals that float through the air into your nose.

LSD fits this profile





Thanks for the condescending lecture about sensory perception. You're right about a few things, except for the fact that LSD is not particularly light, nor is it very volatile. The predicted vaporization temperature of LSD is occurs at 541.3±50.0 °C (1). I don't see how it is volatile in the least bit. Sure, due to some ridiculous quantum interactions, one LSD molecule may evaporate at room temperature once in a blue moon.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: isic]
    #19191751 - 11/26/13 12:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

isic said:
? Ha! Come to Colorado if you want to really know what rural is. There are patches of land out here with NO ONE there, that are probably bigger than the entire state of NJ.

Also, chances are MOST of the "LSD" you are getting in NJ isn't LSD at all. It is more probable that you are just getting another chemical (RC) designed to mimic the effects of LSD. True LSD is not easy to make and is quite rare, where as some of these "mimic"  research chemicals are easy to obtain, easy to make, all over the place and in some cases, even legal.




Both true so far as they go, yet I had no trouble scoring acid when I lived in a very rural area of Colorado (Douglas County).


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191851 - 11/26/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

losfreddy said:
such bullshit.  dog did not indicate drugs.




You can provide evidence?




I think it was a false indication. Cops make the dogs do that so they have an excuse to search cars and stuff. I dont believe LSD can be smelled even by a dog.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ogla]
    #19191859 - 11/26/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

losfreddy said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

losfreddy said:
such bullshit.  dog did not indicate drugs.




You can provide evidence?




I think it was a false indication. Cops make the dogs do that so they have an excuse to search cars and stuff. I dont believe LSD can be smelled even by a dog.



I agree with you on this, but again, it's all speculation. You cannot logically claim that it was bullshit because you weren't there. See my above post where I cited the predicted vaporization point of LSD. As to whether dogs can smell it, I'm not sure, and considering the ridiculous vapor point of LSD I doubt any law enforcement officials are sure either, but I'll ask my dog and get back to you ASAP. My money is on false indication as well.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ogla]
    #19191902 - 11/26/13 12:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

losfreddy said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

losfreddy said:
such bullshit.  dog did not indicate drugs.




You can provide evidence?




I think it was a false indication. Cops make the dogs do that so they have an excuse to search cars and stuff. I dont believe LSD can be smelled even by a dog.




It seems like it would be easier to say that... no, you don't have evidence.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191913 - 11/26/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:

Probability doesn't mean shit in this case. What does matter is what happened. So unless you can point to evidence to the contrary you have no legs to stand on.

Manville did not have a drug dog when I lived there. Seeing as they had to bring a drug dog in from another town, it seems they still don't.




Probability is the foundation for a biased hypothesis.

Seriously though, in this case I'm skeptical of an LSD-sniffing dog 30 minutes away. Where I live a 30 minute distance is tantamount to driving to work every morning. Probably much of the US could say that. Police are a whole different beast when it comes to drugs. Naturally as not only an LSD user, but an educated one at that, I'm inclined not to trust this whole story that we are given. How do we even know it's LSD? Was some sort of chemical analysis done (GC/MS, HPLC, TLC?) Field test that indicated it is an indole? There's quite a few indoles, possibly even in tattoo equipment, that would fail that field test. is it because the cops said it's LSD? from what i can gather - the "suspect" isn't talking.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

isic said:
? Ha! Come to Colorado if you want to really know what rural is. There are patches of land out here with NO ONE there, that are probably bigger than the entire state of NJ.

Also, chances are MOST of the "LSD" you are getting in NJ isn't LSD at all. It is more probable that you are just getting another chemical (RC) designed to mimic the effects of LSD. True LSD is not easy to make and is quite rare, where as some of these "mimic"  research chemicals are easy to obtain, easy to make, all over the place and in some cases, even legal.




Both true so far as they go, yet I had no trouble scoring acid when I lived in a very rural area of Colorado (Douglas County).



But certainly you are from NJ if you believe Douglas County is rural - which goes back to me saying that area is rural for New Jersey:tongue:


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191919 - 11/26/13 12:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

no i dont have evidence. Its just what i think.  The cops mustve received a tip or something to suspect anything was in the package. Maybe his source is under investigation or one of his costumers  might have said something.  But its all speculation.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191945 - 11/26/13 01:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We used to get "good acid" through here in the 90's, but I stopped doing acid 15 years ago due to the rise of RC's so I am not sure about today's scene here. With that said, I am now almost positive some of the stuff I used get that I would deem "bad acid" after tripping was most certainly NOT real LSD and most likely a RC of some kind.

BTW, I am not saying you aren't getting real LSD, I'm just stating that the chances are slim. I hope I don't sound like I am calling you a liar, because that is not my intention.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19191968 - 11/26/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

100mg = 1 dose


and "intent 2 distributed" wtf thats insane, is holding a can of beer intent to distribute?


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Synthe] * 1
    #19191987 - 11/26/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Synthe said:
100mg = 1 dose


and "intent 2 distributed" wtf thats insane, is holding a can of beer intent to distribute?



You gotta be kidding me. 100 micrograms is 1 dose of LSD. We're talking 100 milligrams, that's 10,000 1,000 doses, and indeed those quantities are enough for a distribution charge.


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Edited by mylfgur (11/26/13 01:18 PM)


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192026 - 11/26/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

100 mg = 100,000 ug

We can argue all day about what an average dose is, but lets just say 100 ug. That would be 1,000 doses.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: isic]
    #19192029 - 11/26/13 01:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Because you think something is not probable means squat. There is nothing rural about Manville. There is less than nothing rural about Scotch Plains. While there are rural areas in NJ, neither of those qualify.

Driving 10 miles in that area can take as long as 45 minutes. Look into the traffic on Rt206 or 28. It may have been rural decades ago.

Quote:

Population in 2012: 10,399 (100% urban, 0% rural). Population change since 2000: +0.5%




http://www.city-data.com/city/Manville-New-Jersey.html

Douglas County on the other hand, reeks of rural.

Without evidence to the contrary the story stands.

Now... do you have any proof to back your claims?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: trampis]
    #19192033 - 11/26/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trampis said:
100 mg = 100,000 ug

We can argue all day about what an average dose is, but lets just say 100 ug. That would be 1,000 doses.



True that, my fault on the quick maths.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192063 - 11/26/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have more proof than you. Your rant about what is rural and what's not is pointless conjecture only to serve your disagreement but serves no proof. There is however proof in the pudding that without a GC/MS analysis, they do not know what substance they have and cannot say it is LSD. There is no possible way a GC/MS was done in this span of time.

There is also proof in the pudding that thousands of substances will test the same as LSD on a field test. Ehrlichs are prone to misidentification. I didn't read the article word for word that closely but it would appear the substance was unidentified when they were reported it was coming, and then the suspect himself never identified what the substance was.

So without proof this is even LSD how can you say a dog sniffed out that it was LSD? It could be a chemical used in tattoo ink for all we know. There are many indoles put in those types of inks to keep them stable as a solution over long periods of time.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19192087 - 11/26/13 01:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
I have more proof than you.




Yet you've produced none.  Huh.


Quote:

So without proof this is even LSD how can you say a dog sniffed out that it was LSD?




Where did I say it was?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19192104 - 11/26/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
I have more proof than you. Your rant about what is rural and what's not is pointless conjecture only to serve your disagreement but serves no proof. There is however proof in the pudding that without a GC/MS analysis, they do not know what substance they have and cannot say it is LSD. There is no possible way a GC/MS was done in this span of time.

There is also proof in the pudding that thousands of substances will test the same as LSD on a field test. Ehrlichs are prone to misidentification. I didn't read the article word for word that closely but it would appear the substance was unidentified when they were reported it was coming, and then the suspect himself never identified what the substance was.

So without proof this is even LSD how can you say a dog sniffed out that it was LSD? It could be a chemical used in tattoo ink for all we know. There are many indoles put in those types of inks to keep them stable as a solution over long periods of time.




I don't see Luvdemshrooms disagreeing with anyone except for when they're claiming to know things that are omitted from the article. He is only being skeptical, and many users in this thread are "calling bullshit" and making claims with no evidence. Yes, the police may have done the same thing, but you can't make up your own facts and insert them into a news article. It doesn't work like that... Unless you're the one writing the article.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192124 - 11/26/13 01:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

trampis said:
It's highly unlikely that there are many (if any) dogs trained to sniff out LSD, and the odds of the police just happening to have the rare dog that is on hand.




The shop is in Manville. The dog came from Scotch Plains.

They didn't have a "rare" dog on hand. They had to borrow one from another set of cops that are 16 miles away. 16 miles on Rt22 in NJ is probably a good 30 minutes each way.

From the article:

"A police dog from Scotch Plains later detected the presence of a controlled dangerous substance in the parcel, the affidavit states."



from what i understand dogs are trained to sniff out one thing at a time usually they go for the more popular drugs ( weed coke heroin etc) how did they no to get a dog specifically to sniff out lsd? and i am sure this was not crystal probably blotters or maybe another medium probably wasnt even that much lsd either but he sounds like he got set up


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192141 - 11/26/13 01:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I don't see Luvdemshrooms disagreeing with anyone except for when they're claiming to know things that are omitted from the article. He is only being skeptical, and many users in this thread are "calling bullshit" and making claims with no evidence. Yes, the police may have done the same thing, but you can't make up your own facts and insert them into a news article. It doesn't work like that... Unless you're the one writing the article.




Sure I can with my frontal lobes. it's called opinion. I can't speak for anyone else, but luvdemshrooms didn't bring anything new to the table that I hadn't already put into consideration before coming to the conclusion police most likely tampered with evidence to get "100mg of LSD". Put it all together through a point of view of someone on 'the other side of the law', with the required details omitted it can very hardly point to the police playing fairly.

they didnt come through their conclusion with mass spectrometry. I'm not sure what test they used - likely not one that could differentiate LSD, RC, or other chemicals a businessman might use.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19192152 - 11/26/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
Quote:

I don't see Luvdemshrooms disagreeing with anyone except for when they're claiming to know things that are omitted from the article. He is only being skeptical, and many users in this thread are "calling bullshit" and making claims with no evidence. Yes, the police may have done the same thing, but you can't make up your own facts and insert them into a news article. It doesn't work like that... Unless you're the one writing the article.




Sure I can with my frontal lobes. it's called opinion. I can't speak for anyone else, but luvdemshrooms didn't bring anything new to the table that I hadn't already put into consideration before coming to the conclusion police most likely tampered with evidence to get "100mg of LSD". Put it all together through a point of view of someone on 'the other side of the law', with the required details omitted it can very hardly point to the police playing fairly.

they didnt come through their conclusion with mass spectrometry. I'm not sure what test they used - likely not one that could differentiate LSD, RC, or other chemicals a businessman might use.



That's because news is generally produced before enough time has been given for police work, and especially lab work, to be done.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: allseeingike]
    #19192165 - 11/26/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

allseeingike said:
from what i understand dogs are trained to sniff out one thing at a time usually they go for the more popular drugs ( weed coke heroin etc) how did they no to get a dog specifically to sniff out lsd? and i am sure this was not crystal probably blotters or maybe another medium probably wasnt even that much lsd either but he sounds like he got set up





I think your understanding is wrong.

When the cops show up to do a drug search do they bring one dog or several?

While no-one claimed the dog was specially trained for LSD, it stands to reason since the cops showed up based on a package (sure seems like they received a tip) that they'd bring one trained for what they expected to find.

Further, since they had to borrow a dog from a not too local town it seems quite likely that they knew just what they would find.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (11/26/13 01:51 PM)


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19192181 - 11/26/13 01:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

allseeingike said:
but luvdemshrooms didn't bring anything new to the table




I just pointed out the flaws in logic.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192190 - 11/26/13 01:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Members of the Somerset County Prosecutor’s Office Organized Crime and Narcotics Task Force had received information that a package containing an unknown narcotic would be delivered to David Zecca, 30, at the business, according to an affidavit filed in Superior Court in Somerville.




According to the article they didn't know what they were looking for.

I'm not familiar with the area this happened in, but where I'm from there is one drug dog for the entire county, so it could take well over 30 minutes for the dog to arrive. Doesn't seem important to me that they had a dog come in that far away, although it is odd that they didn't have a dog ready for this operation. Did they assume the guy would willingly allow them to search the package?


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192199 - 11/26/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

allseeingike said:
from what i understand dogs are trained to sniff out one thing at a time usually they go for the more popular drugs ( weed coke heroin etc) how did they no to get a dog specifically to sniff out lsd? and i am sure this was not crystal probably blotters or maybe another medium probably wasnt even that much lsd either but he sounds like he got set up





I think your understanding is wrong.

When the cops show up to do a drug search do they bring one dog or several?

While no-one claimed the dog was specially trained for LSD, it stands to reason since the cops showed up based on a package (sure seems like they received a tip) that they'd bring one trained for what they expected to find.

Further, since they had to borrow a dog from a not too local town it seems quite likely that they knew just what they would find.



The story says they were tipped. It was no doubt the person who sent it that tipped the goons to it. All that is needed to carry out an attack on someone is to mail them some drugs and alert the cops that they will be receiving it. That was the main point I thought, that the guy is just some random jackoff that is being set up by some enemy.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192210 - 11/26/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

Synthe said:
100mg = 1 dose


and "intent 2 distributed" wtf thats insane, is holding a can of beer intent to distribute?



You gotta be kidding me. 100 micrograms is 1 dose of LSD. We're talking 100 milligrams, that's 10,000 1,000 doses, and indeed those quantities are enough for a distribution charge.




oh wow I'm not thinking right i meant to put UG not MG


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: trampis]
    #19192218 - 11/26/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trampis said:
According to the article they didn't know what they were looking for.

I'm not familiar with the area this happened in, but where I'm from there is one drug dog for the entire county, so it could take well over 30 minutes for the dog to arrive. Doesn't seem important to me that they had a dog come in that far away, although it is odd that they didn't have a dog ready for this operation. Did they assume the guy would willingly allow them to search the package?




According to the article, yes

However, seeing as they received a tip and when not allowed to search the package they brought in a dog from some distance away, do you really think they didn't know what they would find?

And it wouldn't surprise me (with the arrogance that some cops have) if they thought the guy would let them search. People confess and/or allow searches all the time.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19192237 - 11/26/13 02:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
The story says they were tipped.




Yup. I should have more accurately said that (sure seems like they received a tip about just what was in the package)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192303 - 11/26/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ill settle this. dogs CAN be trained to detect LSD (their sniffer is a million times more powerfull than ours)  they are typically trained to find marijuana products, meth, MDMA, heroin, cocaine, barbituates. althought there are some that are trained for ketamine, LSD, other rare drugs.  alot of times they hit on just about any pharmaceutical. and we all know about the shady false positive alerts...

if they didnt have one trained to detect what they want they will call in other dogs.  still though even in large cities i think LSD training is pretty rare.

EDIT: didnt see there was 4 pages of comments if this was already covered i appologize


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Edited by shopdropper (11/26/13 02:24 PM)


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192446 - 11/26/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
If you have an understanding of olfactory perception (the sense of smell), you will know that the process involves molecules binding to olfactory receptors--those molecules are generally light, volatile (easy to evaporate) chemicals that float through the air into your nose.

LSD fits this profile





Thanks for the condescending lecture about sensory perception. You're right about a few things, except for the fact that LSD is not particularly light, nor is it very volatile. The predicted vaporization temperature of LSD is occurs at 541.3±50.0 °C (1). I don't see how it is volatile in the least bit. Sure, due to some ridiculous quantum interactions, one LSD molecule may evaporate at room temperature once in a blue moon.



Even solids give off small amounts of vapour, unless situated around absolute zero. Once again, this is how smell works. Vaporization of salt (NaCl) happens around 1400 celsius, yet even us humans are still able to pick up enough errant molecules to catch a whiff.

I only sound condescending because of the vast number of folks who are apparently convinced that it is impossible for a dog to smell LSD forcing me to repeat the basics of how the sense of smell works, as well as how much greater the sense of smell of a dog is when compared to a human.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19192460 - 11/26/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I only sound condescending because of the vast number of folks who are apparently convinced that it is impossible for a dog to smell LSD forcing me to repeat the basics of how the sense of smell works, as well as how much greater the sense of smell of a dog is when compared to a human.




Now, now. They read it on the internet / heard it from a friend (who heard it from a friend) / made it up.

Fear not. Many of us get it.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19192494 - 11/26/13 03:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

mylfgur said:
Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
If you have an understanding of olfactory perception (the sense of smell), you will know that the process involves molecules binding to olfactory receptors--those molecules are generally light, volatile (easy to evaporate) chemicals that float through the air into your nose.

LSD fits this profile





Thanks for the condescending lecture about sensory perception. You're right about a few things, except for the fact that LSD is not particularly light, nor is it very volatile. The predicted vaporization temperature of LSD is occurs at 541.3±50.0 °C (1). I don't see how it is volatile in the least bit. Sure, due to some ridiculous quantum interactions, one LSD molecule may evaporate at room temperature once in a blue moon.



Even solids give off small amounts of vapour, unless situated around absolute zero. Once again, this is how smell works. Vaporization of salt (NaCl) happens around 1400 celsius, yet even us humans are still able to pick up enough errant molecules to catch a whiff.

I only sound condescending because of the vast number of folks who are apparently convinced that it is impossible for a dog to smell LSD forcing me to repeat the basics of how the sense of smell works, as well as how much greater the sense of smell of a dog is when compared to a human.



Humans can only smell table salt when it reacts with water in the air (or in the human nose) to form truly volatile compounds. I guess that this same process could happen with LSD, but I still find it rather hard to believe that noticeable amounts of volatile compounds could leak from a sealed, nonporous container. :shrug: Could be, though. There also was presumably some on the outside of the container as well.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192506 - 11/26/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

smell definitely leaks from non porous containers......



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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Juicin]
    #19192510 - 11/26/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Juicin said:
smell definitely leaks from non porous containers......






From volatiles, yes.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192522 - 11/26/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Wouldn't any energy like heat make it a "volatile"


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Juicin]
    #19192543 - 11/26/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Juicin said:
Wouldn't any energy like heat make it a "volatile"



Nope.

I'm not saying it's impossible that a drug dog actually sniffed out the LSD, just unlikely. Though I'm not going to jump to conclusions and make unwarranted and unsupported claims like a lot of other people have done.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192548 - 11/26/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The doubt in my mind isn't if the dog could smell LSD, but whether the dog was actually trained to do so. I'm pretty sure drug dogs have to stay up to date on their certifications, so it shouldn't be all that difficult to find out if the dog used in this bust was actually trained to alert on LSD. I for one won't be going through the trouble to do so, but it would be interesting if someone investigated this more and got back to us.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: trampis]
    #19192556 - 11/26/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trampis said:
The doubt in my mind isn't if the dog could smell LSD, but whether the dog was actually trained to do so. I'm pretty sure drug dogs have to stay up to date on their certifications, so it shouldn't be all that difficult to find out if the dog used in this bust was actually trained to alert on LSD. I for one won't be going through the trouble to do so, but it would be interesting if someone investigated this more and got back to us.



Right. A good enough lawyer should be able to clear things up for his client.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192560 - 11/26/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mylfgur said:
Though I'm not going to jump to conclusions and make unwarranted and unsupported claims like a lot of other people have done.




So you're saying you're not a typical Shroomery member?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192572 - 11/26/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

mylfgur said:
Though I'm not going to jump to conclusions and make unwarranted and unsupported claims like a lot of other people have done.




So you're saying you're not a typical Shroomery member?



I probably fit the profile if you're only looking at my physical description.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192618 - 11/26/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why would I care about your physical description? Do all Shroomery members look the same?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192628 - 11/26/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Why would I care about your physical description? Do all Shroomery members look the same?



You shouldn't care about my physical description, and I'll never reveal photographically it on this forum. But yeah, I'd say the typical Shroomery member is a white male, aged 20-35, and looks like a geek.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: mylfgur]
    #19192636 - 11/26/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Other than male, I doubt there is a typical Shroomery member. I imagine they are as varied as any other group.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192735 - 11/26/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Who cares? You're done arguing the dog COULD have sniffed LSD so now you want to argue what the average Shroomerite is?


I'll stick with the typical Shroomery members if that's what it is coming down to. At least it is 10x more logical and probable to assume the dog in fact did NOT sniff out LSD.

now let's argue where my statistic came from, right? :datass:


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19192745 - 11/26/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

While I made no such argument about the dog, you've offered no evidence it did not.

Want to try?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19192996 - 11/26/13 04:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

A police dog from Scotch Plains later detected the presence of a controlled dangerous substance in the parcel, the affidavit states. After executing a search warrant for the package, authorities found more than 100 milligrams of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide, or LSD, the affidavit states.




someone please find me solid evidence that a dog can smell lsd cause
I'm not believing it

Quote:

Even if dogs could sniff LSD, the likelihood of there being such a dog so readily available nearby is quite slim to none.




dude no kidding, an lsd sniffing dog in Manville, NJ????? Sounds to me like they were trying to "solidify" their case and was the only step they could take to get him to open the package, since he refused. if the dog "smelled" anything, it was an additive to the lsd.

why would you take the time to train a dog to smell lsd when its barely on the radar anymore, makes no sense at all. Heroin, herb, cocaine seem a hell of alot more likely than lsd.

fyi, the population of Manville, NJ is a little over 10,000 and Scotch Plains is a little over 20,000. they DEFINITELY have an lsd sniffing dog :murray:


Edited by tealeaf (11/26/13 04:54 PM)


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: tealeaf]
    #19193004 - 11/26/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Kindly provide evidence they can not.

And re-read the article. You seem to have missed that the dog came from Scotch Plains.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19193012 - 11/26/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

^ i got it bud, was editing my post 100 times. I live in a town with 30,000 people and there is a heroin problem here. we dont have one single drug sniffing dog in our area.............


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: tealeaf]
    #19193050 - 11/26/13 05:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/fluka/p1334?lang=en&region=US

this apparently proves they can but I still have a hard time believing it, if there was an lsd sniffing dog, it would be in Portland, San Francisco, or Seattle.................Scotch Plains, NJ...............suuuuuuuuuuuuure


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: tealeaf]
    #19193061 - 11/26/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

YA what if it was synthetic Lsd jesus christ chinese rap.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: tealeaf]
    #19193097 - 11/26/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tealeaf said:
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/fluka/p1334?lang=en®ion=US

this apparently proves they can but I still have a hard time believing it, if there was an lsd sniffing dog, it would be in Portland, San Francisco, or Seattle.................Scotch Plains, NJ...............suuuuuuuuuuuuure




Right. Because even though PD's nationwide are buying tanks and armored troop carriers, a LSD sniffing dog is out of the question.


--------------------
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19193112 - 11/26/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Like I mentioned earlier, there should be a record of what this specific dog is certified in alerting on. It really shouldn't be too difficult to find out what dog was used and what the dogs certifications are. Anyone in NJ up for doing their own investigation of this case?


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19193712 - 11/26/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No regular police k9 smells LSD.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19194085 - 11/26/13 08:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

luvdemshrooms is right.  dogs can be "certified" to sniff LSD.  accuracy, if any, is not an issue here; it could be used as legal evidence in court, whether legit, a false positive, or a conspiracy to plant evidence.
i would not ever doubt the willingness of police to waste taxpayer dollars on new toys (or in this case, pets).


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Carbon_Black]
    #19194500 - 11/26/13 10:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I hope this dude's attorney is wise enough to ask the prosecution to provide documentation stating that the dog was trained(with proof) to alert on the odor of LSD.  I would find it highly unlikely that the dog was trained to find LSD.  If they can prove that the dog was not trained to alert to LSD I think it would at least give the guy a chance at getting the package throwin out.  No package, no case.  That's just my humble opinion though.

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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Boomers420]
    #19195277 - 11/27/13 07:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Boomers420 said:
I hope this dude's attorney is wise enough to ask the prosecution to provide documentation stating that the dog was trained(with proof) to alert on the odor of LSD.  I would find it highly unlikely that the dog was trained to find LSD.  If they can prove that the dog was not trained to alert to LSD I think it would at least give the guy a chance at getting the package throwin out.  No package, no case.  That's just my humble opinion though.

Good night y'all

Stay shroomy



yeah and then they go back to what I said.....There was faint cannabis residue from the person that packaged it......The dog wasn't talking to the police telling them what exactly it smelled.....:jah:


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: trampis]
    #19195415 - 11/27/13 08:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

trampis said:
This is very suspect. It's highly unlikely that there are many (if any) dogs trained to sniff out LSD, and the odds of the police just happening to have the rare dog that is on hand. Also, it would seem highly probable that anything sent through the mail would be vacuum sealed. This reeks of horseshit. The cops probably gave some signal to the dog that in turn made it give them the signal that it had detected something.



This. I have a feeling with a high powered attorney this case could go away for unlawful search. An anonymous tip is not grounds to do the type of operation that they did. That's one hell of a tip!


Edited by Magicman69 (11/27/13 08:36 AM)


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Magicman69]
    #19195425 - 11/27/13 08:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

maybe we should all buy one of these dog testing kits things so we don't get nbomed.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Jesus Cristo] * 1
    #19195442 - 11/27/13 08:46 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

We'll take it to festivals.

Whenever it sniffs out NBOME it'll bark loudly and bite the nut sack of the person holding the drug.

Everyone will be hesitant about buying fake LSD ever again


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19195470 - 11/27/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

allseeingike said:
from what i understand dogs are trained to sniff out one thing at a time usually they go for the more popular drugs ( weed coke heroin etc) how did they no to get a dog specifically to sniff out lsd? and i am sure this was not crystal probably blotters or maybe another medium probably wasnt even that much lsd either but he sounds like he got set up





I think your understanding is wrong.

When the cops show up to do a drug search do they bring one dog or several?

While no-one claimed the dog was specially trained for LSD, it stands to reason since the cops showed up based on a package (sure seems like they received a tip) that they'd bring one trained for what they expected to find.

Further, since they had to borrow a dog from a not too local town it seems quite likely that they knew just what they would find.




exactly they knew what they where looking for making it more likely he was set up if it was just a suspicious package they would have no way to know hey i think its gonna be lsd in there.

this is scary though whats to stop anyone from shipping drugs to people they dont like and tipping off the cops


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: allseeingike]
    #19195736 - 11/27/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

allseeingike said:
this is scary though whats to stop anyone from shipping drugs to people they dont like and tipping off the cops



Nothing. And I think that's exactly what happened in this case. And there's no more serious crimes than drugs except premeditated murder. So anyone can be framed for the most serious crimes in our land and do nothing about it.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19196742 - 11/27/13 02:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This is only kind of related, but I was just wondering, on the online black market, are there groups of people that will test blotters and announce if they are actually LSD 25? If so, are these people knowledgeable and trustworthy (not just people advertising their product)?


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: HardTrippin]
    #19197166 - 11/27/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

At one point early on in SRs life, back in 2009 I believe, they used to yes. A group would come in and buy a few hits, test to see if they were legit L and then if they tested, would drop and gauge the quality and ug. Now though, it don't go down like that bro.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19198746 - 11/27/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

People in this thread are thinking way too much like drug users and not enough like cops.

Obviously, most drug dogs aren't trained to sniff LSD, but they certainly can be.  Is an inner city police agency going to get drugs for that purpose?  Probably not.  They don't see much LSD.

NJ, however, has MANY municipalities each with its own police force.  Those police forces answer to city councils.  All it takes for that police force to have an LSD sniffing dog is for someone to have a kid that took something that they THINK is LSD...POOF!  The next dog they buy will have LSD certification.

It doesn't even take that.  It just takes one news story mentioning LSD, the most dangerous drug in the world, being found within 200 miles...

Never underestimate the willingness of people to spend other people's money.

As far as whether this search is going to hold up...that's going to depend on many factors, most of which are not mentioned in the article.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Enlil]
    #19198817 - 11/27/13 11:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well from what I understand they just made that Sigma Aldrich LSD scent a few years ago, and at least a few years ago only a dozen dogs had it nationwide. That could be different now and the news article that came from is "404 Not Found" now but I see it referenced all over the web after looking up the scent. no other companies I'm aware of offer an LSD scent formulation.

It doesn't really matter what the dog thinks it smelled though - just that it alerted to something. thats how they get probable cause. That won't be what gets it thrown out unfortunately. what will is the actual chemical analysis through GC/MS that shows the substance is not LSD and an innocent plea. if it actually is LSD or he pleas guilty / no contest, he's in trouble.

LEO don't need a search warrant to search a FedEx package - they just need FedEx's permission, which I'm guessing they didn't have so they called in the dog.

Out of probability I'm gonna say there's at least a 9/10 chance this was a false positive signal because they felt they had enough evidence from the tip that there'd be drugs in the package.

I had an OZ of dank nuggets with the scent reaking out of my pocket once and the dog didn't pick it up. 100mg of LSD is like tip of my finger. experience has shown me dogs don't smell that close. that is just one example I have of several where dogs didn't pick up the scent of drugs in much larger quantities than 100mg. (for instance, stacks of ~23-25 lb bricks of pot in the gas tank)


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19198819 - 11/27/13 11:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

By the way the dog that sniffed this package is named Ollie if anyone knows how to look up his certifications. I do not.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19198823 - 11/27/13 11:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It doesn't have to be LSD.  It just has to be a scheduled substance.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Enlil]
    #19198831 - 11/27/13 11:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah that's my point. well, part of it. as well as that the dog merely gives probable cause - it doesn't mean he has to be correct.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19198838 - 11/27/13 11:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
By the way the dog that sniffed this package is named Ollie if anyone knows how to look up his certifications. I do not.


I doubt his cert is public record, but:

http://scotchplainspolice.org/page6/page6.html

The dog is apparently also trained to detect explosives.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Enlil]
    #19199381 - 11/28/13 05:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
People in this thread are thinking way too much like drug users and not enough like cops.

Obviously, most drug dogs aren't trained to sniff LSD, but they certainly can be.  Is an inner city police agency going to get drugs for that purpose?  Probably not.  They don't see much LSD.

NJ, however, has MANY municipalities each with its own police force.  Those police forces answer to city councils.  All it takes for that police force to have an LSD sniffing dog is for someone to have a kid that took something that they THINK is LSD...POOF!  The next dog they buy will have LSD certification.

It doesn't even take that.  It just takes one news story mentioning LSD, the most dangerous drug in the world, being found within 200 miles...

Never underestimate the willingness of people to spend other people's money.

As far as whether this search is going to hold up...that's going to depend on many factors, most of which are not mentioned in the article.




But Enlil... the probability...

:lol:

I'm not sure they were thinking like drug users. My theory is they weren't thinking and have little knowledge of the subject they were ranting about. That would include drug dogs, cops and NJ.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19200495 - 11/28/13 12:10 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't care if dogs can or can't sniff LSD. (I sure as hell am not gonna believe what the cops or the people who train these dogs for the cops, say on this matter) I would be willing to bet, no matter what the reason, that dog DID NOT smell LSD.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: isic]
    #19200686 - 11/28/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Then you must be willing to hear luvdemshrooms say 'Na na na boo boo you can't prove it!' while offering no real input of his own. :shrug:


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19200779 - 11/28/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I won't go through all the pages but I wonder if a lawyer could get him off if they found the dog was not trained to detect LSD.
I want to say I have read where they are usually trained to smell only a few things and trying to train them for everything would be cost prohibitive.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: 4runner]
    #19200842 - 11/28/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Wouldn't matter. The dog alert creates probable cause even if it's wrong.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: 4runner]
    #19200859 - 11/28/13 01:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

anunnakian said:
I won't go through all the pages but I wonder if a lawyer could get him off if they found the dog was not trained to detect LSD.
I want to say I have read where they are usually trained to smell only a few things and trying to train them for everything would be cost prohibitive.




When have government agencies been concerned by cost? They're spending your money.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19200965 - 11/28/13 01:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Wouldn't matter. The dog alert creates probable cause even if it's wrong.




Dammit, that sucks.

I guess it's the same as a cop at the front door of a party saying, I smell marijuana, I am coming in.
Oh sorry, that was just the incense burning but damn if 20 underage kids where not drinking.
Or something like that.

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

anunnakian said:
I won't go through all the pages but I wonder if a lawyer could get him off if they found the dog was not trained to detect LSD.
I want to say I have read where they are usually trained to smell only a few things and trying to train them for everything would be cost prohibitive.




When have government agencies been concerned by cost? They're spending your money.




It varies, but yeah law enforcement, gotta save them kids. I do think there is something to that though. The training takes time, and I am sure LSD and other random RC's are low priority. I think it's similar to the drug testing scenario, even a 10 panel drug test doesn't cover LSD, or any similar drugs. It's more than likely the high priority drugs that are being trafficked as well as the smell of money.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: 4runner]
    #19201014 - 11/28/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

More likely doesn't mean much when we're talking about the cops spending your money. Does that mean they all have LSD dogs? Hell no. Does that mean none do? Hell no. If they had to bring in a dog it seems clear they don't all have LSD dogs.

While you can clearly think and reason, it's in short supply from others in this thread. Those fools should ask the guy who was arrested if he thinks, knows or cares about LSD dogs being rare. All that matters to him is that ONE.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #19201043 - 11/28/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I find it curious the United States Customs doesn't utilize LSD-sniffing dogs like the Scotch Plains Police Department does. Traveling to and from Costa Rica (both ways) I carried several sheets of LSD cut into  strips and stuck in books as if they were book markers, and out of every dog I passed, not one ever alerted to me. Neither did they alert to the psilocybin mushroom honey jar I was carrying. I've never actually went to or from Costa Rica without carrying drugs of some kind and since I lived there for quite some time, that is quite a bit of travel where I was directly sniffed by dogs. as recently as 2012 at that.

Thats just one example I have of police dogs not being as efficient as you would like to believe. I was transporting 100 elbows of brick weed in the 90s and out of several checkpoints across I-10 they still didn't alert to me. On a bus in Costa Rica a dog stuck his nose literally right on my pocket where I was carrying approximately an OZ of some of the finest bud I've ever grown.

So how this police dog caught 100mg - roughly enough crystal to fit beneath my fingernail basically - is a mystery to me.

Refuse to believe all you like but police mishandling is the most likely culprit no matter how you want to look at it, if the substance is indeed even LSD.

My theory is that it isn't LSD and they only think it's LSD because of a false positive on a field test. Indoles are used in inks all the time so this is a very high possibility actually. Coming from someone who has worked in the industry for probably longer than many of the posters here. the graphics industry that is.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19201301 - 11/28/13 03:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
Refuse to believe all you like...




I don't refuse to believe anything. I made no absolute claim. I merely pointed out the foolishness of the claims of several other posters in this thread.


So let's poke holes in your post.

Quote:

I find it curious the United States Customs doesn't utilize LSD-sniffing dogs like the Scotch Plains Police Department does.




So what? Is the US Customs Service mandated to use the same tools as the Scotch Plains police?


Quote:

Traveling to and from Costa Rica (both ways) I carried several sheets of LSD cut into  strips and stuck in books as if they were book markers, and out of every dog I passed, not one ever alerted to me.




Wait. I thought LSD dogs are rare? Why would you expect there to be one at each port of entry?


Quote:

Thats just one example I have of police dogs not being as efficient as you would like to believe.




I made no claim as to their efficiency, or even that they can definitely smell LSD.


Quote:

So how this police dog caught 100mg




I don't know that it did, but if dogs can smell explosives there's no reason they can't smell LSD. Also, evidence was provided by others in this thread that they can indeed smell it.

Your reading comprehension and reasoning abilities need work.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19201348 - 11/28/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't see any holes poked anywhere actually. My comprehension of English is quite fine too. I even comprehend English so well I've taught the language on 3 continents.

Considering customs are the people keeping terrorists out of our country at the highest level, at the busiest airports in the United States, why would they have any less than a rinky-dink municipal police department in suburban New Jersey? 

If LSD dogs are rare the federal marshals at the airport are the ones going to be holding them. :rolleyes: Have you seen some of the gadgets they have? Interstate airport security is one thing but traveling internationally back into the United States is a whole different ball game post 9/11.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19201369 - 11/28/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

D.M.T said:
Considering customs are the people keeping terrorists out of our country at the highest level, at the busiest airports in the United States, why would they have any less than a rinky-dink municipal police department in suburban New Jersey?




Rarely is it ever claimed that what the government does is makes sense, is logical, right or just. 


Quote:

If LSD dogs are rare the federal marshals at the airport are the ones going to be holding them.




Why? Is there a law that limits local police departments from spending their money on differently trained dogs?


Quote:

Have you seen some of the gadgets they have?




Yup. How does that stop a police department from having a LSD sniffing dog?


Quote:

Interstate airport security is one thing but traveling internationally back into the United States is a whole different ball game post 9/11.




Yup. So what. How does that prevent Scotch Plains from spending their money on a LSD sniffing dog?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19201370 - 11/28/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Why would they want lsd sniffing dogs to stop terrorists?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Enlil]
    #19201386 - 11/28/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Can you imagine the entirety of NYC tripping?

The horror!

That would require a shitload of drugs.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Enlil]
    #19201389 - 11/28/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Drug smugglers are known as narcoterrorists - regardless of drug. Feds don't follow logic but they do follow drugs, and all drugs are narcotic regardless of their binding action. In fact this is the bulk of their work because of the lack of real terrorism in America. The dogs at the airports are most certainly trained to smell MDMA for example, while municipal police dogs don't typically make that distinction.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: D.M.T]
    #19201402 - 11/28/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't understand your point.  The scotch plains dog detects lsd.  All of the other shit you're saying is irrelevant dribble.  Have you any evidence that the dog isn't trained to detect lsd?


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Enlil]
    #19201419 - 11/28/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It obviously is a set up, with the cameras and everyone in place and everything. Whether or not the dude is innocent is another story. It all seems terribly sketchy.


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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Enlil]
    #19201430 - 11/28/13 04:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What do I need evidence for if I want to hold an opinion? Until you have proof this dog can detect LSD, I shall hold the opinion that it cannot. How come your so dead-set against that? You don't want people to have opinions based on probability, likelihood, and past experiences because of your short stature? What gives dude? I've weighed the facts and I've weighed the probability. this is how a hypothesis is formed via the scientific method.


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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: Enlil]
    #19201921 - 11/28/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I don't understand your point.  The scotch plains dog detects lsd.  All of the other shit you're saying is irrelevant dribble.  Have you any evidence that the dog isn't trained to detect lsd?




I sense a bit of hypocrisy with this. Are willing to put your reputation on the line to call your statement a fact? Or are you so naive to believe what you read from a link is indeed a fact?

I really think that there is no solid proof on either side to prove or disprove whether a dog can or is indeed "trained" to sniff LSD. The only fact is... is that we don't know if it's a fact either way.


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OfflineElston Gunn
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Re: Bridgewater man allegedly received FedEx package with LSD at tattoo parlor in Manville [Re: isic]
    #19247354 - 12/08/13 09:25 PM (10 years, 1 month ago)

I know the guy who got arrested it was crystal. A dopehead friend of his ratted him out.


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