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Offlinenambi
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Registered: 10/18/02
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I'd hate to give up but...
    #1918972 - 09/15/03 07:23 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

After one year of unsuccessful tries. I really don't know what else to try.

I check my last 3 cases today and all show signs of contamination and green mould.

In over one year I think I have created more than 20 mid size cases and out of these about 3 have survived, I was trying all different types of methods.

1st started off with B+ on rye then casing to strait straw, into mid size plastic containers covering them with plastic rap and sealing them quite well, this didn?t' work about 80% contamination.

I then tried mixing straw with manure, same technique same problems.

I was then told that I should have never sterilized the straw since some bacteria was need to fight off outside bacteria.

Did the same attempt this time, but this time I pasteurized the straw, even worse now. I don't think I have one out of 6 cases that didn?t get contaminated

Now I tried using B+ on rye cased with pasteurized straw at 180oF and using about 1" layer of vermiculite on the top and the bottom of the case straw in the middle and 2 pint jars of colonized rye mixed in the straw, covered with plastic wrap and sealed away, left alone for almost 1 month
1 had pins I set it in the chamber, the green showed up the next day on one side, bastard! I hope to get a few out of this case before it completely takes over.

Just checked the last 3 cases all are turning green! I just can't understand what else I can try. Maybe growing in a house with wall to wall carpet is just too hard. Or maybe casing in the kitchen exposes it to too much bacteria, I have a small house so I don't have too many options here but out of personal satisfaction I would really love to get a good successful batch! I've grown about 2-3 ounces but from the effort and loses I have experienced I know I should have much more.

Does anyone here have a casing method using straw/manure/vermiculite/rye with b+ that works almost foolproof??
nothing works for me, I am very careful creating the cases, my only concern is pasteurizing the straw, and moving it into the casing, maybe this is were the contaminants get in, but I assume that if I only start to see green after 3 weeks then it is around this time that it is contaminated.

If anyone has any type of technique or might have a suggestion on what I am doing wrong, please PM me and share your thoughts.



An extremely frustrated cultivated, fighting not to give up.


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Invisibleutopianglory
Spunkmuffin
Registered: 07/20/02
Posts: 965
Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: nambi]
    #1919161 - 09/15/03 08:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

You have skipped the teks that are generally done by beginners, namely growing on brown rice flour and vermiculite and then either fruiting as cakes or perhaps using 50/50+ or even simpler vermiculite as a casing method.

I think if you start at the start you won't have as much trouble, for instance fruiting cakes is far easier in terms of worrying about contams because you not introducing any new material to the setup when you fruit them.


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Offlinenambi
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: utopianglory]
    #1919351 - 09/15/03 09:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Actually I did try those techniques with positive results, I then moved over to grains, now I'm stuck.


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: nambi]
    #1919433 - 09/15/03 09:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I hate to say it, but it's gotta be your fault. Don't take that as a bad thing, it means that YOU can make it work.  You need to clean your entire house thoroughly, then disinfect it using bleach/water to scrub surfaces and Lysol to wipe them with afterwards.  Take everything you are using for cultivation and clean it thoroughly in hotwater and bleach, dry, then mist heavily with 91% isoprophyl alcohol.  Nuke your casing layers in the microwave at 3 5-minute bursts, stirring frequently inbetween bursts with a clean utensil.  Place your casing conatiner with a lid or alum foil on as a lid into your CLEAN incubator, incubate, check after 5 days, patch case with STERILE casing mixture. Incubate another 2 days, patch case again with STERILE casing mixture, initiate fruiting. 

It's all about cleanliness.  Set up a terrarium with air exchange automated by using aqarium bubblers that lead to an air stone submerged in h2o2/h2o liquid. The h2o2 in the air will help kill any spores that might come in there.

I wish you luck, please tell us your entire process, if you want to continue, and we acn make suggestions for ya and get ya growing :smile:


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflineDemiurge
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Registered: 04/11/03
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: lysergic]
    #1919657 - 09/15/03 10:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Straw is known too cantaminate more easily than poo. Try using horse manure without straw. The straw your getting my be crap as well. If you still plan on using straw then find a better supplier.


--------------------
Just another animal embeded in a technological coral reef extruded psychic objects...


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Offlineresin
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: Demiurge]
    #1919705 - 09/15/03 10:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hows your sterile technique? Do you sterilize the casing containers with lysol? Do You spray that shit in the air like hell , and wear a dustmask when making casings? You gotta spray the lysol on the casing container 10minutes before whiping off, then use them. Are your jars contamning, or just your casings? Do you lysol the air before checking on them? Do you mist the casings with peroxide/water solution when checking them? I do all this, and also mist my spawn, and substrate with my peroxide/h202 solution when maing the casings. Ive had 100% no contamns, my house is dirty as fuck. Sounds like spores are getting in, peroxide kills spores, I use a 10/1 ratio of water/peroxide


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Offlinenambi
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: resin]
    #1920736 - 09/16/03 07:31 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

When I pasteurizes the straw I put the straw in regular tap water in a sterilized pot for and bake in the oven for 3 hours at around 170-180oF. When that is done, I lysol all my cases and make my vermiculite/water mixture. And microwave for 5 min, now the vermiculite is almost too hot to touch, thus maybe too hot for the grain so I have to let it sit for about 10-15 minutes.

When that is done I add about a 1" 1 1/2" of this vermiculite to the bottom of a pre-lysoled container, then add about 1-2" of straw, cover the container with the lid. I open the jars up here break up the spawned grain over the case 2 jars (1 pint) and add the final vermiculite layer 1" then cover with plastic and put the lid on it.

then I tape the plastic wrap down with either scotch or Masking tape and wait, these ones look good until it was getting ready to go in, then I could see the white mycelium not forming properly and by then I knew I had already been hit with contams.

If I only notice the green late into my casing colonization would this mean that my contams are being introduced while they are on the shelf or would it mean that they had entered during my casing process?

I were a dust mask and I lysol the kitchen down, I lysol the air, maybe I should do it more, jars seem OK but the last few have looked a bit mushy and have taken long to colonize, but when I open them they smells fine. I mist the case only in its final fruiting stage. When I see pin I take the lid off remove the plastic wrap and put in the sterile rubber made, which I mist with 30/70 water to peroxide. No h202 solution though.

>>
Incubate, check after 5 days, and patch case with STERILE casing mixture. Incubate another 2 days, patch case again with STERILE casing mixture, initiate fruiting.
>>

What should I patch? I usually just wait until I see the 1st pin, I have never patched. How does this initiate the fruiting?






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InvisibleZildjian
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Registered: 09/11/02
Posts: 208
Loc: new zealand
Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: nambi]
    #1921076 - 09/16/03 12:07 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

perhaps you have hay instead of straw? when you mix your grain with straw or shit or whatever, do you seal them airtight? foil may be better than plastic. I tried plastic once and everything went sour.

you could try microwaving just leeched shit, I usually mix the dry shit with too much water and microwaving on high for 10 min, then squeezing to correct moisture with rubber gloves, then microwaving for another 10 minuites. let that cool with plastic over it in your kitchen or wherever, then add your grain and cover with foil. I'm sure if you do this, it will be a success.

I do all my stuff in a comparitivly dirty environment, i do most of my innoculations in my kitchen next to dirty dishes and a compost bin full of many moulds and bacteria. I just meths everything and breethe very very very slowly.

please try the above method, if it doesn't work I'll cry :smile:


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Offlineresin
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: Zildjian]
    #1921896 - 09/16/03 04:56 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

First off, you gotta microwave your casing mix for 10 minutes. Next up you gotta let the straw colonize, before casing it with the verm, these are your problems. You gotta follow the teks to a T, your taking shortcuts. You also gotta mix your grain with the straw, not just set it on the straw. Your whole process is whacked, no wonder youve been failing


Edited by resin (09/16/03 04:57 PM)


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OfflineBeppoMarx
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: resin]
    #1921965 - 09/16/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

sounds like you may be not using enough spawn for the hay. how big of a container (width x length in inches) is your casing container?? 1 pint is good for spawning like, a small bread pan. in the day i used to use i think 44qt sterlite or rubbermaid containers, pretty big and use like 3-4 quarts of spawned substrate to the straw. needs to be distributed evenly through the straw, not set up on top as another layer, you want the straw at full colonizatoin ASAP, not wanting to give mold a chance by myc having to work its way through it all. and resin is correct, no casing layer til straw is colonized. let it breathe!!! and also you get a more even pinset not blotches because all casing surface area is ready to grow when you put casing on there and it colonizes evenly.

also cut straw into the smallest pieces possible, like 2-3" apiece. and you dont need 1 1/2" of a bottom verm layer, thats waste. just use like 1/2" at most, hyphae are small they dont shit that much.


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


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Offlinenambi
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #1922062 - 09/16/03 05:55 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I definitely have straw, I know for a fact since I bought Hay first then I returned it and bought straw. Also I can try foil but then I can't see if they are ready for the chamber since foil isn't opaque like the plastic wrap.


I microwave my verm, and the straw is pasteurized in a separate pot in the over I then mix the 2 at the casing time. should I mix the straw and the verm together? Then microwave? I thought adding a verm layer on top would keep the organic straw covered from contams.


"You gotta let the straw colonize, before casing it with the verm, these are your problems. "

Are you serious? That?s one more step to add to an already problematic process. So I should mix the colonized grain in the straw put it in a container then stow away?? If I were to take this step which I did the 1st time, I would have contam problems right away, also what?s the purpose of the verm then, if its colonizing without contams then I wouldn't add the verm. I thought the verm was for initial protection

My containers are small about 13" x 8" x 4" 4 1/2 quarts so 2 pints should be enough, they take about 1 month from here to see a pin. I have a pic of my 1 out of 4 that survived don?t' know how to put it up here though.

Thanks guys


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OfflineBeppoMarx
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: nambi]
    #1922132 - 09/16/03 06:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

nambi said:
I open the jars up here break up the spawned grain over the case 2 jars (1 pint) and add the final vermiculite layer 1" then cover with plastic and put the lid on it.





Quote:

nambi said:
My containers are small about 13" x 8" x 4" 4 1/2 quarts so 2 pints should be enough, they take about 1 month from here to see a pin.




are you using 1/2 pint or pint jars?? because i would use more than 1 pint (2 half-pint) spawn in a container like that

Quote:

nambi said:
Are you serious? That?s one more step to add to an already problematic process. So I should mix the colonized grain in the straw put it in a container then stow away??





correct. and when you 'stow away, no light and 85* temperature just like incubation. its still incubating and colonizing new substance.

Quote:

nambi said:
also what?s the purpose of the verm then, if its colonizing without contams then I wouldn't add the verm. I thought the verm was for initial protection





no any casing, vermiculite or not is there as a NON NUTRITIOUS layer to wick up water and feed it to the mycellium, just a constant water supply. also works in creating a lot of surface area and a 'micro climate' for shrooms to pin. thy still need 95%RH to pin thats a fact, but you can get away with 80-85% RH in a casing project because the casing layer makes it up over 90%rh inside the smal crevices and nooks in the layer itself. it has nothing to do with being a 'contamination barrier,' the barrier should be yourself washing your hands and using a glovebox, etc....

are your tempeature readings accurate???


--------------------
Holy shit people; COMMON SENSE! we were all born with it where did it go?
maybe theres a tek out there to explain how to use it!
BUCKETS BRIGADE left hand man!!!


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OfflineTHATS iT!
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Registered: 12/26/02
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: BeppoMarx]
    #1922238 - 09/16/03 06:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe it is not wheat straw. There might be weeds or herbicide in the straw. Try casing with verm or peat moss. Those are much easier and effcient ways.


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Offlineresin
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: THATS iT!]
    #1922695 - 09/16/03 08:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Look, im a dirty mutherfucker, and have never had any problems. When you get a few dry ounces for a few dollars, and a few hours of work, you wont be complainin. You mix grain with the straw in a container, and put in a lysoled trashbag. Let it sit for 5-10 days and it will be completely colonized. You then add a casing layer to provide moisture,Put back in lysoled trashbag, and let it colonize for 3-5 days. After this you put it in the fruiting chamber, give light/air exchange, and you will get shrooms. The casing layer provides moisture for an established mycelium network. By letting the grain and straw colonize, you create a mycelial network. If you case before the network is there, it will be too wet, and will contamn everytime. Your on the right track, but are bein lazy. Just do it to it, and you will be happy


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Offlinenambi
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: resin]
    #1924404 - 09/17/03 07:27 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

too wet.... I think thats were I go wrong.


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OfflineSoulJah2
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: nambi]
    #1924936 - 09/17/03 01:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

dont give up. I'm not experienced in casings but I'd suggest trying different substrates.. Try coir and peat or something instead. Do the basic casings. Just dont give up!

Oh and possibly try Oust For in the air.. lysol i guess doesnt realy kill much contams that are in the air.

Personaly I just use oust and rubbing alchohol to clean


good luck


--------------------
That's not pretty cool.


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Offlinenambi
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: SoulJah2]
    #1924955 - 09/17/03 01:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'll try the oust got a few jars brewing now, and I'm going to make sure EVERYTHING is sterile, also I will make sure my straw if I decide to use it, (I also have cow crap) Is moist as oppose to wet when I go do the next casing.

I'm also going to monitor temps better, I think I slack on this area too. slowing mycelium growth to a point where it just takes too long.

I'm a SURVIOR!!

NEVER GIVE UP.

thanks for all the advice.


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InvisibleBlutjager
Inhuman

Registered: 06/12/06
Posts: 9,220
Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: nambi]
    #5848258 - 07/11/06 09:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I feel the exact some way,No matter what EVERYTHING goes bad,if it isn't green its bacteria or just no colonization at all,I am so frustrated,I have 60 lbs of hpoo and cant get even get one jar to colonize to spawn into it.I'm not giving up and nether should you.I am obviously not the one to give any advice here.I just wanted to say don't give up your not the only one out there starting to think that is hopeless.At least you had success with your brf/verm.Even that contaminated on me.Good luck man.Just keep trying something has to work


--------------------
Cake makers please read this before you waste more time/effort >>
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6236058/an/0/page/0
My LC tek >> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7320516/an/0/page/0

""THEY CAN NOT KILL ME,I STILL WALK THE EARTH,WEAKENED BUT ALIVE.THEY HAVE TAKEN ALL FROM ME BUT THE BEATING OF MY COLD DEAD HEART.
THEY WILL NOW LEARN OF FEAR,THESE MEWING BABIES WHO THOUGHT THEY COULD DESTROY ME.
I HAVE REGAINED MY POWERS AND SHALL COME TO THEM IN THE NIGHT........

MY VISITS SHALL NOT BE KIND !! ""
:vampire: BlutJager :vampire:


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OfflineSihaya
Newbie
Registered: 05/18/06
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... *DELETED* [Re: Blutjager]
    #5848415 - 07/11/06 09:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by Sihaya

Reason for deletion: want to



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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: I'd hate to give up but... [Re: Sihaya]
    #5848423 - 07/11/06 09:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

this threads from '03 :smirk:


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Air Stone, Brown Rice Flour, Coir, Peat, Rye Grain, Vermiculite

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