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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19189683 - 11/25/13 11:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Man the stoner, weed enthusiast are almost worse than the prohibitionists now. I'm not talking about you necessarily but there needs to be balance to the argument rather than the "omgweedcandonowrongimatard" thing.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




Edited by Bitter Cactus (11/25/13 11:13 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19189709 - 11/25/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

ok, balance the argument then. respond to me without personalizing the issue, and lets see if we can have a rational discussion. but i'll just end up repeating myself anyways...

here is this polite enough of an exchange for you?

a drug cannot CAUSE what is known as a medical disorder, because a drug can only have very specific effects, and there is no drug that CAUSES (none literally) permanent or lasting psychosis or whatever the disorder is of your choice. it cannot. there is no drug that does that. HOWEVER, there are drugs (practically all psychotropic drugs) that can INHIBIT PRE-EMINENT, PRE-EXISTING, PRE-DISPOSED DISORDERS, and THAT'S NOT BECAUSE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS ON THE HUMAN BODY BY ITSELF, but by EXACERBATING THOSE DISORDERS WHICH THE PERSON IS ALREADY PRONE TO.

do you understand where i am coming from now?


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19189737 - 11/25/13 11:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If a person drowns in a swimming pool, do you blame it on water?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19189743 - 11/25/13 11:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

these types, yes... yes they do. by their logic, absolutely the water's fault.


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: TiN 42]
    #19189749 - 11/25/13 11:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tinkid said:
So I haven't smoked any marijuana in over two weeks. I just moved to a new area don't know anyone and can't find any heads. My dreams have been so vivid they are waking me up all night long and my attitude is shitty. The only other time I've had dreams like this was in jail which puts you in a shitty attitude any ways. I've been smoking concisely scenes I 14 and I'm know 35 it's starting to drive me nutty. Has anyone else ever had this problem.  :wow:  :ganja:





i feel too much mj dumbs down reality, although not a exactly a bad things it's nice to be aware of shit going on and being sensitive to the world ten fold.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19189766 - 11/25/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

"Results: Evidence from 6 longitudinal studies in 5 countries shows that regular cannabis use predicts an increased risk of a schizophrenia diagnosis or of reporting symptoms of psychosis.
The relation did not seem to be a result of cannabis use to self-medicate symptoms of psychosis.
Conclusions: It is most plausible that cannabis use precipitates schizophrenia in individuals who are vulnerable because of a personal or family history of schizophrenia."

"Cannabis use can lead to a range of short-lived symptoms such as de-personalisation, de-realisation, a feeling of loss of control, fear of dying, irrational panic and paranoid ideas...
The evidence that cannabis has a causative role in chronic psychotic or affective disorders is not convincing, although the drug may modify the course of an already established illness."

"Given that the incidence of schizophrenia declined substantially in Western societies in the 1970s, at the same time cannabis use was rising, it seems highly unlikely that marijuana causes schizophrenia in otherwise healthy people....
Cannabis psychosis is self-limiting, disappearing in a few days with or without medical treatment. Toxic psychosis probably occurs more commonly in individuals with preexisting psychiatric disorders....
Marijuana temporarily alters mood, thought, emotions, and perception, sometimes quite dramatically. None of marijuana's effects cause people to behave in any particular manner. In the midst of a toxic psychosis, people may become agitated and frightened. In response to acute panic, people may become withdrawn and inactive. Neither of these states eliminates the social and moral restraints that guide human behavior."

i can keep going... even scientists who think that their is cause for concern, agree that...

"Exposure to cannabis during adolescence and young adulthood increases the risk of psychotic symptoms later in life. Cannabis use at baseline increased the cumulative incidence of psychotic symptoms at follow up four years later...but has a much stronger effect in those with evidence of predisposition for psychosis."

http://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000220

and apparently people are so stupified by the notion that they probably had something wrong with them to begin with BEFORE TAKING Marijuana; that it actually skews results. :facepalm: "increased risk" just means "more likely to exhibit" because "DUR i smoked Marijuana that's why i'm crazy!1 i couldn't have been before!"

"nah, Derp wasn't crazy he was just... a fun guy at parties." :herpderp:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: zZZz]
    #19189771 - 11/25/13 11:31 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

zZZz said:
Quote:

tinkid said:
So I haven't smoked any marijuana in over two weeks. I just moved to a new area don't know anyone and can't find any heads. My dreams have been so vivid they are waking me up all night long and my attitude is shitty. The only other time I've had dreams like this was in jail which puts you in a shitty attitude any ways. I've been smoking concisely scenes I 14 and I'm know 35 it's starting to drive me nutty. Has anyone else ever had this problem.  :wow:  :ganja:





i feel too much mj dumbs down reality, although not a exactly a bad things it's nice to be aware of shit going on and being sensitive to the world ten fold.



that's rational, coherent and sane.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19189797 - 11/25/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

There is defs research pointing towards the fact that marijuana use increases your chances at getting schizophrenia.

An addict can get very enraged and defensive when his DOC is attacked, whether it's weed or anything.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19189799 - 11/25/13 11:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

not sure if sarcasm :notsureif:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19189828 - 11/25/13 11:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
There is defs research pointing towards the fact that marijuana use increases your chances at getting schizophrenia.

An addict can get very enraged and defensive when his DOC is attacked, whether it's weed or anything.




ok, that's not an argument for one... and also, i just posted several articles assessing that the likelihood of such events are shown to have no connection between using weed, and have more of a connection to having had a pre-existing condition.


i need palliative care, i'm going insane from dealing with irrational people who can't listen to reason. (yes i realize i look angry... i am just frustrated because i really don't want to be doing this anymore.) seriously. an addict can be all those things... and you'd have to be a moron to feel like you're addicted to weed, but it DOES happen... but like i said, a person who is used to doing something for twenty years as a coping mechanism for boredom, regardless of if it's drugs or not, will exhibit those types of defenses. it has nothing to do with my being an addict; me defending my position. to claim so is asinine.

i've shown you evidence. i've shown you excerpts from peer reviewed studies... and i've told you that when "risk factor" comes involved, it's BAD SCIENCE; because they have SEEN that there is no connection to Marijuana as the CAUSE of any of these conditions you speak of... they see a correlation in "risk factor and use of marijuana" which is dumb-speak for "we don't know why people end up coming to us say they're crazy from the weed",; AND THAT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO THE PERSON BEING A MORON FOR THINKING HE WASN'T CRAZY BEFORE TAKING THE WEED.

i had that clever comment... about how Derp was always just a fun guy at parti... nevermind. :facepalm:

Quote:

zZZz said:
not sure if sarcasm :notsureif:



after all my ranting and railing against certain posters, you got a short, concise, and affirming post of my believe in your stance. i'm NOT being sarcastic.

(you should be able to tell just from the fact that i'm not e-yelling in your e-direction)


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19189836 - 11/25/13 11:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How does little jimmy know he is predisposed to schizophrenia before he smokes the pot? I guess two years later when he is smoking the weed and can't quit it and is hearing voices and seeing shadow people.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19189838 - 11/25/13 11:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

cool cool. :murray:


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19189853 - 11/25/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

can someone with who's not dumb read my comments on the top of THIS page (where i am being more polite) and ignore my raving earlier, and just tell me whether or not i'm completely biased? i shudder to think that i am reading these articles written by doctors, and i'm still not able to show that the connection between using Marijuana and having a mental disorder is UNPROVEN, and that the "increase risk factor" attributed to Marijuana for "causing" these disorders, is basically like saying that "if someone came in and said that they felt crazy, we're gonna put that in the study; as if it was prove for causation" when anyone with a brain knows that it's A CORRELATION that they infer to, and not a CAUSE.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #19189861 - 11/25/13 11:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
How does little jimmy know he is predisposed to schizophrenia before he smokes the pot? I guess two years later when he is smoking the weed and can't quit it and is hearing voices and seeing shadow people.



well, for one, by noting that the effects little Jimmy has from weed are too noteworthy and not at all what weed does for most, if not all of his friends, and that if he's hearing voices or acting erratic, that he should just quit and not use it? and if he's "addicted" send little Jimmy to rehab for potheads. :rolleyes:

your scenario is so far-fetched and unlikely, that's unfathomable, but i just did the impossible. i gave you a striaght answer.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19189932 - 11/26/13 12:14 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
good argument. now can you stop popping up in threads making stupid points about how a drug has minor side effects and how drugs can expose and make stronger latent preexisting medical disorders/conditions, and then blaming it on the drug; or are you just gonna keep doing that?




Maybe you can give some examples of where I've said anything about latent medical conditions. I think you're confusing me with someone else. The "minor side effects" to cessation (aka withdrawal) that you refer to are obviously relevant to the thread topic.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: psi]
    #19190005 - 11/26/13 12:41 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

you didn't but your butt buddies did. you can read between the lines, right? if i wasn't saying "ooh but PSI, you said that...", you realize i could be talking about someone else who is saying these things, like for example Bitter Cactus; who seems to be the most ill-informed of you all.

oh and on the cessation of marijuana causing withdrawl... it's minor to basically non-existent. as i've said many a time (which YOU choose to ignore), if someone "quits" a coping mechanism, in which they so obviously derive joy and/or security within, then they will feel "shitty" for lack of a better term (literally, that's the best term). this does NOT mean that they are addicted to something. (just like a person who wants to watch his favorite show that he watches all the time, but he misses an episode and forgets to record it, and he gets mad or sad, but does that mean he's addicted?)

it means they're pissed off because they've ceased a valuable and/or necessary coping mechanism for themselves... in a drugs case; unless the drug is making them have uncontrollable cravings, or making them WITHDRAW (you know, ACTUAL WITHDRAWL, PHYSICAL EFFECTS, SICKNESS, POSSIBLE DEATH MAYBE) they are NOT ADDICTED TO IT. they are habitually drawn to it, and they're peeved off because they don't have it anymore. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

also, to note, that Marijuana has slight addictive qualities, as it makes people crave sometimes, but it's basically the weakest craving that you get from a drug... it's been shown time and time again, that people will be more likely to become addicted to and crave COFFEE OR CHOCOLATE more then people do Marijuana. which makes the whole notion of "i have to remind everyone of the dangers of Marijuana addiction and all those who say it's no big deal or SOO STUPID AND IGNORANT" idiotic and self-righteous.

PLUS, on the cause of side effects... YES Marijuana has a casual set of side effects, that may stink; but they are based on the obvious actions of the drug; like with most drugs... you smoke weed, you get hungry and tired and anxiolytic effects; which we all know about... when the weed wears off; you get THE OPPOSITE of those WELL KNOWN effects, ie sleeplessness, loss of appetite, and irritability or anxiousness (and if you smoke alot and often, the side effects last longer and are worse).

if you go into smoking weed KNOWING that get hungry and tired and anxiolytic effects, then you should know that when you cease using, you'll get THE OPPOSITE of those effects; and be able to judge accordingly if the drug is "for you" or not.

all this kerfuffle can be solely attributed to being unintelligent, misinformed, and candy-asses.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19190040 - 11/26/13 12:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
you didn't but your butt buddies did. you can read between the lines, right? if i wasn't saying "ooh but PSI, you said that...", you realize i could be talking about someone else who is saying these things, like for example Bitter Cactus; who seems to be the most ill-informed of you all.




My butt buddies huh. This kind of thing is a big part of what (often) makes you a shitty debater, grouping people together as opponents and glossing over the differences between what those people have actually argued. Some of the points you've made in this thread I don't disagree with, but your approach stinks.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: psi]
    #19190055 - 11/26/13 01:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

maybe you should try addressing the issues here, or maybe you can't. :shrug: which is funny, because you know... i stated all of the above already, a hundred times, and when i FIRST SAID WHAT I SAID, i was neither rude or name-calling, and you and "your butt buddies" still couldn't address what i was saying. see the first comment i made in this thread.

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
Quote:

LittleDipster said:
yeah its pretty common but a lot of people don't like to talk about it cause pot is the best thing ever and not addictive at all



the guy has been smoking non-stop for 25 years... it's also common for people to become irritable when they don't do what they've been doing for twenty years regardless of the particular item or event.

so... your shilliness isn't necessary.





oh and

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
no one is denying that there are after effects of taking drugs. boy, some of you people are shills.

no one is denying that a DRUG (like any DRUG) is going to have side effects. OY MY FUCKING HEAD

ALL DRUGS HAVE SIDE EFFECTS.

Pot though, has some very easily manageable side effects, and YES can be addictive, sorta like how Ice Cream or washing the dishes every morning can be.

GET OVER IT.

no one will ever really say it and mean it, when they say "oh Marijuana is completely harmless" it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to realize that what they mean by that is... WAIT FOR IT...

MARIJUANA IS ONE OF THE SAFEST ILLEGAL DRUGS ON THE PLANET EVER.
PERIOD. END OF STORY. GET OVER IT.




notice^ heated... frustrated... NOT RUDE OR namecalling...

so since you can't address the debate, i think it's settled.

oh yeah and PS: i didn't gloss over your position, i just addressed it. saying that you guys were "butt buddies" was an obviously facetious comment. lacking, i know, but you really can't address the issue to begin with so; how can i, while having to repeat myself to you over and over and over again, how can i NOT get angry? i'm a very straight forward kinda guy, if you can't address what i've said for the umpteenth time, then it's just plain easy to see, that you're never gonna assess your side of the argument.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19190110 - 11/26/13 01:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

My original posts in the thread related to the topic (OP quitting weed and feeling shitty.) It seems to have gone off on somewhat of a tangent since then. Why should I address points of yours that I've never argued against?

Regarding rudeness and name-calling, a lot (but not all) has been coming from you. The second post you quoted even starts out with you calling other users "shills."


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: not smoking marijuana [Re: psi]
    #19190122 - 11/26/13 01:24 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Weed causes anxiety man. Smoke weed then try and get your swag on.

I have a feeling that weed is one of the major culprits for social anxiety and anxiety disorders that a lot of people have on these forums.


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Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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