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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Aminita muscaria
    #19187586 - 11/25/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's not the first time I've identified one of these but I've never eaten one, so a second opinion would be comforting. Found in N. Ireland. Does anyone know anything about the potency of these mushrooms in this region? I've heard that potency varies from region to region.








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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19187659 - 11/25/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know man, it doesn't look like any muscaria I've ever seen.
It sorta looks like Amanita cesarea but I doubt it. I kinda suck at this genus.


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #19187678 - 11/25/13 04:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
I don't know man, it doesn't look like any muscaria I've ever seen.
It sorta looks like Amanita cesarea but I doubt it. I kinda suck at this genus.




Thanks anyway, but I just looked that one up and it's more southern Europe and has an orange cap.

I have previously had one positively ID'ed as A. muscaria from the same forest if that helps.


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19187711 - 11/25/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Certainly not A. caesarea. Sorry, I don't know what it is, but probably something in the A. muscaria group.


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Tas75]
    #19187722 - 11/25/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tas75 said:
Certainly not A. caesarea. Sorry, I don't know what it is, but probably something in the A. muscaria group.




I only see one other possibility in my British mushroom field guide and that is A. muscaria var. aureola.  The habitat is just right, acidic peaty soil near birch trees.


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19187725 - 11/25/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duggstar said:
Quote:

Tas75 said:
Certainly not A. caesarea. Sorry, I don't know what it is, but probably something in the A. muscaria group.




I only see one other possibility in my British mushroom field guide and that is A. muscaria var. aureola.  The habitat is just right, acidic peaty soil near birch trees.



That seems like a pretty good guess to me. :thumbup:


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #19187792 - 11/25/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

quote]maynardjameskeenan said:
Quote:

Duggstar said:
Quote:

Tas75 said:
Certainly not A. caesarea. Sorry, I don't know what it is, but probably something in the A. muscaria group.




I only see one other possibility in my British mushroom field guide and that is A. muscaria var. aureola.  The habitat is just right, acidic peaty soil near birch trees.



That seems like a pretty good guess to me. :thumbup:




IDK, that A. muscaria var. aureola and that first one you suggested are very orange compared to the one I have, which suggests to me that your screen is off.  This one was tomato red when I picked it and it is now a copper red since it has dried. Also it does have scales albeit slightly washed off, unlike the var. aureola in my field guide which has no scales whatsoever.


Edited by Duggstar (11/25/13 04:41 PM)


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19187877 - 11/25/13 05:03 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Lol, and I thought I would just get a straightforward confirmation :rofl2:

So just to get the conversation rolling again, does it really matter whether this is var. aureola or whatever variant of A. muscaria, it it still safe and is the potency still the same?

P.s. The first picture is in its dried state, maybe I should have stated that earlier :frown:


Edited by Duggstar (11/25/13 05:12 PM)


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19188452 - 11/25/13 06:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It is Amanita muscaria sensu stricto


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19188526 - 11/25/13 07:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
It is Amanita muscaria sensu stricto




Thanks Alan :smile:

How potent is this strain do you know?


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19188564 - 11/25/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duggstar said:
Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
It is Amanita muscaria sensu stricto




Thanks Alan :smile:

How potent is this strain do you know?





It's a species, not a strain.  The potency varies, but I would start with around one mushroom the size of the ones in your OP.  You can always try more another time if nothing happens.

If you get tired and go to bed early, that means it worked.


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19188615 - 11/25/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


If you get tired and go to bed early, that means it worked.




Damn it! Does that mean it's just like a sleeping pill or something? Still, that could come in useful some time! :wink:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19188641 - 11/25/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Amanita muscaria is more effective than most sleeping pills.  It causes nausea in some people however.

At higher doses it's more like alcohol.

And at higher doses still....umm...not sure....Not too pleasant usually.


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19188695 - 11/25/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:sad: I wasn't expecting to enjoy it too much from what I'd heard anyhow but I was just curious. I thought it might have been a little more interesting than alcohol. I don't think I'll be in too much of a hurry to try it now. Are there any after effects from it like a hangover or anything?


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19188759 - 11/25/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I have not noticed any hangover type effects.  I have noticed that 2 in 5 of my friends that I feed it to throw up.  1 in 5 enjoy it, and some people find it to be medicinal.

I mostly consume it for the taste, it is one of the best edibles when fried in butter until browned, with a bit of salt and a tiny bit of pepper.  I usually serve it as a side dish with just enough to try it but not enough to get effects, about 3 small-medium sized forkfulls.


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19188802 - 11/25/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
I have not noticed any hangover type effects.  I have noticed that 2 in 5 of my friends that I feed it to throw up.  1 in 5 enjoy it, and some people find it to be medicinal.

I mostly consume it for the taste, it is one of the best edibles when fried in butter until browned, with a bit of salt and a tiny bit of pepper.  I usually serve it as a side dish with just enough to try it but not enough to get effects, about 3 small-medium sized forkfulls.




Like just how the japanese enjoy their puffer fish? With just a little of the poison left in :rofl2:


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #19188932 - 11/25/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I know I'm a bit of a noob, but I find it fascinating how you can identify a particular species of A. muscaria with such little information as a couple of crappy pics and a geographical location! You rock :rockon: how do you do it? They all look the same to me :shrug:


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19188966 - 11/25/13 08:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They really do taste delicious when prepared the way Alan described.  Hits that umami sweet-spot like some really good bacon.  I'm in the camp of people that can't stand the effects though, so I don't eat very much, half a cap at most.  :lol:


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19189136 - 11/25/13 09:24 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Duggstar said:
I know I'm a bit of a noob, but I find it fascinating how you can identify a particular species of A. muscaria with such little information as a couple of crappy pics and a geographical location!





There is only one red capped Amanita with white spots known from Europe, so identifying your mushroom was easy.


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: Duggstar]
    #19192328 - 11/26/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Amanita muscaria var. aureola is probably a deprecated synonym of Amanita muscaria. Like Alan said, only one variation is known from northern Europe and that is good old regular Amanita muscaria.


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The bulb is the bulb.

The volva is the volva.

They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: suchen]
    #19192536 - 11/26/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Are the different "var." of Amanita muscaria like saying that Asians are Homo sapien sapien var. asian? That seems kinda silly. I was reading a scientific paper the other day and it concluded that what we consider a 'species' is wrong and that we should think of it more like a wide group that is capable of interbreeding ie. Homo neanderthalensis, Homo dravida, Homo sapien...


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #19193076 - 11/26/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
Are the different "var." of Amanita muscaria like saying that Asians are Homo sapien sapien var. asian? That seems kinda silly. I was reading a scientific paper the other day and it concluded that what we consider a 'species' is wrong and that we should think of it more like a wide group that is capable of interbreeding ie. Homo neanderthalensis, Homo dravida, Homo sapien...




And there was lots of kinky neanderthal on sapien intercourse back in the day. 
:goodluckwiththat:


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: RiparianZoneJunky]
    #19193562 - 11/26/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Certainly species occur across a spectrum of natural variation. Variety, subspecies, etc. are just useful words to describe consistent features of certain groups of individuals within a species.


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Rod Tulloss said:

The bulb is the bulb.

The volva is the volva.

They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”


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Invisiblemaynardjameskeenan
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: suchen]
    #19194316 - 11/26/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

suchen said:
Certainly species occur across a spectrum of natural variation. Variety, subspecies, etc. are just useful words to describe consistent features of certain groups of individuals within a species.



It becomes a problem when a "single species" has a bunch of different names though.
a species is defined as: "group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus and denoted by a Latin binomial, e.g., Homo sapiens."
So this would mean that Homo neanderthalensis, Homo dravida, Homo sapien plus more that we haven't discovered yet, are all "capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding". Doesn't that mean we should consider all of them a single species? Currently we consider them separate species from one another.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #19194444 - 11/26/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Depends on your definition of species. 

See http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_species_concept

The biological species concept does not work very well for mushrooms however.

At the end of the day, the definition of species is up to you, and everyone has a different definition and that is ok.

The definition I use follows Dr. Bas's guidelines, which is that there should be three unrelated differences. 

For animals, the whole successfulness of sex determining species thing works pretty well.  Does not work all that well for mushrooms though.


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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
    #19195599 - 11/27/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

maynardjameskeenan said:
So this would mean that Homo neanderthalensis, Homo dravida, Homo sapien plus more that we haven't discovered yet, are all "capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding". Doesn't that mean we should consider all of them a single species? Currently we consider them separate species from one another.




Depends on who you talk to. Some people consider neanderthals and others a subspecies of Homo sapiens. Alan nailed the important considerations when dealing with what a fungal "species" is.


--------------------
Rod Tulloss said:

The bulb is the bulb.

The volva is the volva.

They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”


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OfflineDuggstarMDiscord
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: suchen]
    #19198126 - 11/27/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

For any of you who might be interested in more alternative views on hominoids or human evolution I would recommend looking into Lloyd Pye's research. It's a bit left field for sure but absolutely fascinating, especially all that starchild skull stuff!


Edited by Duggstar (11/27/13 08:15 PM)


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