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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: suchen]
#19192536 - 11/26/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Are the different "var." of Amanita muscaria like saying that Asians are Homo sapien sapien var. asian? That seems kinda silly. I was reading a scientific paper the other day and it concluded that what we consider a 'species' is wrong and that we should think of it more like a wide group that is capable of interbreeding ie. Homo neanderthalensis, Homo dravida, Homo sapien...
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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RiparianZoneJunky
hunter/gatherer



Registered: 10/30/11
Posts: 3,055
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: Are the different "var." of Amanita muscaria like saying that Asians are Homo sapien sapien var. asian? That seems kinda silly. I was reading a scientific paper the other day and it concluded that what we consider a 'species' is wrong and that we should think of it more like a wide group that is capable of interbreeding ie. Homo neanderthalensis, Homo dravida, Homo sapien...
And there was lots of kinky neanderthal on sapien intercourse back in the day.
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suchen
Once and Future Noob



Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,841
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Certainly species occur across a spectrum of natural variation. Variety, subspecies, etc. are just useful words to describe consistent features of certain groups of individuals within a species.
-------------------- Rod Tulloss said: The bulb is the bulb. The volva is the volva. They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: suchen]
#19194316 - 11/26/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
suchen said: Certainly species occur across a spectrum of natural variation. Variety, subspecies, etc. are just useful words to describe consistent features of certain groups of individuals within a species.
It becomes a problem when a "single species" has a bunch of different names though. a species is defined as: "group of living organisms consisting of similar individuals capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding. The species is the principal natural taxonomic unit, ranking below a genus and denoted by a Latin binomial, e.g., Homo sapiens." So this would mean that Homo neanderthalensis, Homo dravida, Homo sapien plus more that we haven't discovered yet, are all "capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding". Doesn't that mean we should consider all of them a single species? Currently we consider them separate species from one another.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
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Depends on your definition of species.
See http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_species_concept
The biological species concept does not work very well for mushrooms however.
At the end of the day, the definition of species is up to you, and everyone has a different definition and that is ok.
The definition I use follows Dr. Bas's guidelines, which is that there should be three unrelated differences.
For animals, the whole successfulness of sex determining species thing works pretty well. Does not work all that well for mushrooms though.
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suchen
Once and Future Noob



Registered: 06/28/11
Posts: 8,841
Loc: Shangri-la
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: So this would mean that Homo neanderthalensis, Homo dravida, Homo sapien plus more that we haven't discovered yet, are all "capable of exchanging genes or interbreeding". Doesn't that mean we should consider all of them a single species? Currently we consider them separate species from one another.
Depends on who you talk to. Some people consider neanderthals and others a subspecies of Homo sapiens. Alan nailed the important considerations when dealing with what a fungal "species" is.
-------------------- Rod Tulloss said: The bulb is the bulb. The volva is the volva. They have a very long term realtionship, but they’re “just friends.”
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Duggstar



Registered: 01/20/09
Posts: 6,273
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Aminita muscaria [Re: suchen]
#19198126 - 11/27/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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For any of you who might be interested in more alternative views on hominoids or human evolution I would recommend looking into Lloyd Pye's research. It's a bit left field for sure but absolutely fascinating, especially all that starchild skull stuff!
Edited by Duggstar (11/27/13 08:15 PM)
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