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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19186101 - 11/25/13 09:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You guys are missing the point of the OP, which shows how police can use a K9 DOG to illegally search/seize. A dog who can't be tried in court, can't answer questioning from cross examination, at the same time having legal rights/status that are on par with a human police officer (you kill a K9 officer it's almost worse at times than killing a cop), and who is fucking TRAINED to obey his master. This is the fucked up thing that cops are doing.


Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 09:50 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186148 - 11/25/13 09:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

K9 dogs have no rights.  No dogs have any rights.

And while you can't cross-examine the dog, you can use the dog's training and record to challenge a search.

The day may come when K9 dogs are recognized as being heavily flawed tools.  Until that happens, though, they are a powerful way that cops can create probable cause.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186162 - 11/25/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
K9 dogs have no rights.  No dogs have any rights.
.



Not true... Look at Wikipedia (not saying it's always right).
Quote:

In many jurisdictions the intentional injuring or killing of a police dog is a felony,[1] subjecting the perpetrator to harsher penalties than those in the statutes embodied in local animal cruelty laws,[2] just as an assault on a human police officer is often a more serious offense than the same assault on a non-officer.




Even more:
http://www.policek9.com/html/statutes.html


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Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 10:08 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186185 - 11/25/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That doesn't mean that the dog has rights.  That means that YOU don't have the right to kill it or harm it.


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186226 - 11/25/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The bottom line is that it's a bad idea to refuse a cop's orders, lawful or not.  This is for several reasons:

1. Many states allow an obstruction charge for refusing even unlawful orders.

2. It's unlikely that a layman has the necessary knowledge and experience to determine whether the order is lawful under the circumstances and in the few moments available to make that determination

3. Following unlawful orders is, by far, the best way to get the cops to violate your rights in a way significant enough to justify a civil rights suit later on.


The real key to situations like this is to tell the cop, "I'm going to do what you say, even though I don't consent and I believe your request to be improper."  That way, your lawyer can sort out whether or not you have a case, in the comfort of his office while reading case law on the specific issues at hand.  It's a much, much better way to handle it than challenging a man with a loaded weapon on a dark road.



Quote:

Enlil said:
The bottom line is that it's a bad idea to refuse a cop's orders, lawful or not.  This is for several reasons:

1. Many states allow an obstruction charge for refusing even unlawful orders.

2. It's unlikely that a layman has the necessary knowledge and experience to determine whether the order is lawful under the circumstances and in the few moments available to make that determination

3. Following unlawful orders is, by far, the best way to get the cops to violate your rights in a way significant enough to justify a civil rights suit later on.


The real key to situations like this is to tell the cop, "I'm going to do what you say, even though I don't consent and I believe your request to be improper."  That way, your lawyer can sort out whether or not you have a case, in the comfort of his office while reading case law on the specific issues at hand.  It's a much, much better way to handle it than challenging a man with a loaded weapon on a dark road.





This is key.

Minimizes confrontation that normally escalates a situation, yet retains your ability to confront the situation if you feel your rights have been infringed.


Personally whenever I deal with the police, I try to appease them, make them feel like they are doing a good job. This normally deescalates the situation. While making them feel like theyve done a good job already, means they normally dont look for stupid little excuses for them to "prove" to themselves that they have done a good job.

This is my experiences with Canadian cops anyways, Americans , you may be SOL.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186228 - 11/25/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If they can do something I can't, they have rights...
Quote:

A police service animal is exempt from quarantine or other animal control ordinances if it bites any person while under proper police supervision or routine veterinary care. The law enforcement agency and the animal's handler shall make the animal available for examination at any reasonable time and shall notify the local health officer if the animal exhibits any abnormal behavior.




Here is a right.... Just saying..


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Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 10:21 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186239 - 11/25/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moorning Due said:
If they can do something I can't, they have rights...



Maybe by your ignorant definition of the word "rights" but not by any universally accepted definition.

Birds can fly.  That doesn't mean they have a "right" to fly.  It means they have the ability.

All those laws you cited do is give the owners of the dogs the right to not have you kill them.  The dogs are chattel...they have no more rights than a toaster has.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186241 - 11/25/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Moorning Due said:
If they can do something I can't, they have rights...



Maybe by your ignorant definition of rights, but not by any universally accepted definition.

Birds can fly.  That doesn't mean they have a "right" to fly.  It means they have the ability.

All those laws you cited do is give the owners of the dogs the right to not have you kill them.  The dogs are chattel...they have no more rights than a toaster has.




A police service animal is exempt from quarantine or other animal control ordinances if it bites any person while under proper police supervision or routine veterinary care. The law enforcement agency and the animal's handler shall make the animal available for examination at any reasonable time and shall notify the local health officer if the animal exhibits any abnormal behavior.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186246 - 11/25/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Those aren't rights of the animal.  Those are rights of the animal's owner.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186268 - 11/25/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Those aren't rights of the animal.  Those are rights of the animal's owner.




Dude, your kidding right.. Stop being a lawyer for a second. It's the same thing as rights for a minor. 

All I was trying to say is that K9 dogs are being used as a tool that can be used to operate above/outside the law. I didn't want a debate.


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Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 10:27 AM)


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186280 - 11/25/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That doesn't mean that the dog has rights.  That means that YOU don't have the right to kill it or harm it.





I wouldnt agree with that.

If the crime for killing a police dog is more severe than killing a civilian dog. Then that would go towards showing the police dog had more rights against violence, in the way of providing a higher penalties against those who would harm it.

The repercussions against killing a police dog does not change based on who killed it. Those laws are in place for any individual who killed a police dog. However, those laws are not applied to ALL dogs.

To me that represents the right to higher levels of protection, via higher sentences of punishment, made to dissuade people from harming police dogs.

Police have this same right, while civilians do not. However, society feels the right to further protection are justified due to them being at a greater risk.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186286 - 11/25/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Moorning Due said:
If they can do something I can't, they have rights...



Maybe by your ignorant definition of the word "rights" but not by any universally accepted definition.

Birds can fly.  That doesn't mean they have a "right" to fly.  It means they have the ability.

All those laws you cited do is give the owners of the dogs the right to not have you kill them.  The dogs are chattel...they have no more rights than a toaster has.




And you don't have to be such an ass. I'm not ignorant by any means. Did you even read ALL of the laws before you made yourself look like a arrogant ass? Of course I was making a generalization of the term "rights"... But does that give you the right to call me ignorant? (exactly)


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Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 10:31 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186289 - 11/25/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's not the same at all. Minors have actual rights.  Dogs don't.  A dog can be legally killed at any time for any reason or no reason at all by its owner.  That is pretty much the very definition of having no rights.

If you didn't want a debate, you should have either: a)not posted false information, or b) not defended your false information when it was corrected.


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Offlinethilfee
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186297 - 11/25/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Those aren't rights of the animal.  Those are rights of the animal's owner.




the rights of the government to own dogs so they can bite criminals ,my head says in the long run dogs have rights too

off topic but just exactly now i was playing 'hurt' sung by johnny cash on youtube i think written by nin and as soon as it finished it was played on television as if i was connected to television and mr cash.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: EdibleStereos]
    #19186299 - 11/25/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EdibleStereos said:

I wouldnt agree with that.

If the crime for killing a police dog is more severe than killing a civilian dog. Then that would go towards showing the police dog had more rights against violence, in the way of providing a higher penalties against those who would harm it.

The repercussions against killing a police dog does not change based on who killed it.



False.  The police can have their dogs put down at any time.  Dogs are chattel...nothing more.  The dogs have zero rights.  Police happen to enjoy additional protection for their dogs than you and I do.  That has nothing to do with the dog's rights.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186309 - 11/25/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It's not the same at all. Minors have actual rights.  Dogs don't.  A dog can be legally killed at any time for any reason or no reason at all by its owner.  That is pretty much the very definition of having no rights.

If you didn't want a debate, you should have either: a)not posted false information, or b) not defended your false information when it was corrected.




Again with the arrogance... You must be compensating for something that you are very insecure about. I feel for you and I really hope that you can come to realize that trying to make other people feel small doesn't really make you any better. Hopefully, someday you will realize this.

I'm done with this thread.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186311 - 11/25/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moorning Due said:

And you don't have to be such an ass. I'm not ignorant by any means. Did you even read ALL of the laws before you made yourself look like a arrogant ass? Of course I was making a generalization of the term "rights"... But does that give you the right to call me ignorant? (exactly)



If you don't know the meaning of the word, that makes you ignorant of its meaning.  You shouldn't take it as an insult.  Everyone is ignorant of lots of things.  No human can know everything.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186317 - 11/25/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moorning Due said:
Again with the arrogance... You must be compensating for something that you are very insecure about. I feel for you and I really hope that you can come to realize that trying to make other people feel small doesn't really make you any better. Hopefully, someday you will realize this.

I'm done with this thread.



It's interesting how you had to turn this into something personal.  I hope you feel better now.


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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186377 - 11/25/13 10:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Police dogs have way more freedom than a civilian human.  I would consider the fact that they are exempt from our morality laws a set of rights in itself.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: lowbrow]
    #19186395 - 11/25/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

All dogs are exempt from morality.  Morality is a human construct.  As far as freedom goes, that depends on how you define freedom.  If you mean the ability to run around naked and piss where you want...sure.  If you mean the freedom to choose where you're going to go and what you're going to do, not so much.


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