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OfflineEllis Dee
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I think, therefore I am
    #19185497 - 11/25/13 05:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Or could it be...

I AM, therefore I think.

Must you be to think, or must you think to be?

Or is this a matter of being self aware? To know that you are you must realize it?

Well, I am thinking. Therefore I must be. What must I be?

I must be able to think. I remember. I do not know if what I remember is real or not. But I know I remeber it right now.

But I'm a hologram. Not here. Just thinking. :strokebeard:

edit: to repair dyslexic style typo


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (11/25/13 05:32 AM)


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Offlineabsols
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19185534 - 11/25/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

it is simply about freedom being an absolute fact

that is why all is through evil that agress the fact known

when any is free, then being there whatever reality you and state condition, you would find yourself meaning something else while you cant stop that, because your reality is not as much yourself then your free means sense, unless you realize yourself true free means, but then you are a superior freedom out of free self reality, which is the reference to what you are more then the true self known

everyone seem to suit himself better in the knowledge that all is evil so negative fact, in meaning how then he would be free really more, since all is negative, then freedom which is the truth would be more individually real, when that is the true sense of anyone

there is nothing to remember when truth is the fact, then any objective perspective on something is way more everything truth then oneself being

which is clear, from why everyone abuse others in seeing through others everything rights, and become then subjects only by getting some powers in using other beings without being anything themselves

like here in forums, everyone like to talk about existence universe truth as if it is free to say about anything..could spend hours talking about universal issues as if it is its own life, while having no relation to at all
this is a way of being by using anything, because anyone is free basically always there is nothing else

it gives an idea how things are free too but still freedom choice

like positive freedom is whether about not moving so being still or moving always as free
that is surely why zero or nothing is a reality as positive fact like everything value too
as nothing is a freedom choice, to stay relative out of all as a positive thing to not care about all fact, or to use all fact to be else real sense


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: absols]
    #19185538 - 11/25/13 05:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Knowledge all is evil seems like monotheistic mythos. The garden of Eden and the fruit of the tree.

Or maybe its not the adversarial nature of knowledge. I was just thinking of what I can know for sure.

I know I'm thinking and typing this right now. I don't know if I was really doing the things I remember. I don't know if knowledge is good or adversarial and I couldn't know that anyway.

But I think. Am am therefore I can think. And that is all I really can know for sure. Starting from that basis for philosophical truth and no mythos how much can I dervive? I don't know.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19185551 - 11/25/13 06:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

People who quote that guy I would bet does not think at all, arent aware nor creative. They compute. They are trapped in their jail of ordered and further more controlled cycle of thought...

This is no offence at all, but it is worth noting that most people in atleast the first and second worlds of society are brainwashed by the governments ect..  (no i will not bother refferencing this, as you may look it up yourself if you find this interesting. Otherwise one may think this is just nonsence, ignoring it.)


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleInto The Woods
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19185555 - 11/25/13 06:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

How am I supposed to think, if I don't exist?

I had to read that post like three times. :crankey:

Nobody thought themselves into fucking existence.

You don't know if you were really doing the things you remember?

Eat a bowl of cereal, leave the bowl on the counter then see if it still exists in an hour.


Am I missing something?


Edited by Into The Woods (11/25/13 06:21 AM)


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Offlineabsols
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19185658 - 11/25/13 07:08 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Knowledge all is evil seems like monotheistic mythos. The garden of Eden and the fruit of the tree.

Or maybe its not the adversarial nature of knowledge. I was just thinking of what I can know for sure.

I know I'm thinking and typing this right now. I don't know if I was really doing the things I remember. I don't know if knowledge is good or adversarial and I couldn't know that anyway.

But I think. Am am therefore I can think. And that is all I really can know for sure. Starting from that basis for philosophical truth and no mythos how much can I dervive? I don't know.





on the contrary, when all is evil, then god and all gods are evil, since they are the one in charge by abusing some knowledge of all and all realities of individual rights

then it is about hell not Eden, which reveal yourself there meaning religions for now and heaven earth
you wont get any of that

and no you cant be knowing what you are typing now, those words you type you barely are an intent, so the freedom only, you are not the words constructions nor their ends shape

that is how anyone can say about your words more then you.. when it is not through the realization of your true freedom fact as I said, then anything you look doing or say it is not to you nor about, as it is not of you..you didn't invent alphabets and you have no idea who is there except your relative perception about you, so you cannot know how a thing even in words must to be objectively real

and no you don't think either, the fact is only being free, not thinker

to think you must be with all superior present thoughts so all free dimensions which you cant be

philosophy as the pretense of individual thinking is first about the ability to mean anything through positive truth, absolute free dimension of existence, in the knowledge of true superiority

sitting as being using your body whether static so the brain or in movement so reality, is nothing at all but free fact as being the present you

that is why you can say being thinking, without any relation with anything else, which doesn't make sense, thinking is through thoughts positive ends which is to superior dimension beyond earth and life

you are present because you are free, as you can see everything without caring for nor relation with, then the question is how to assume that freedom right, how to be less out of all, not the opposite, how to be more in meaning yourself wills values out of all


Edited by absols (11/25/13 07:10 AM)


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Icyus]
    #19185661 - 11/25/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icyus said:
People who quote that guy I would bet does not think at all, arent aware nor creative. They compute. They are trapped in their jail of ordered and further more controlled cycle of thought...

This is no offence at all, but it is worth noting that most people in atleast the first and second worlds of society are brainwashed by the governments ect..  (no i will not bother refferencing this, as you may look it up yourself if you find this interesting. Otherwise one may think this is just nonsence, ignoring it.)




Do humans do more than compute? More than react? More than to think in their cycle of binary ones and zeros?

Where does inspiration come from? From the muse. That's the higher self, or the I am not the I think, noth the I react. The muse is on the other side of the hologram. The muse projects. The projection reacts. The projection thinks.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19185666 - 11/25/13 07:13 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Into The Woods said:
How am I supposed to think, if I don't exist?

I had to read that post like three times. :crankey:

Nobody thought themselves into fucking existence.

You don't know if you were really doing the things you remember?

Eat a bowl of cereal, leave the bowl on the counter then see if it still exists in an hour.


Am I missing something?




The shadow of existence is that thought or matter? The existential crisis. The adversarial outcry and rebellion. Is the cereal there? Or is it the nourishment of the hologram. I think its there, and so the wave function collapses into material of cereal on the counter, but not material, into image or hologram.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlineabsols
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Into The Woods]
    #19185680 - 11/25/13 07:20 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Into The Woods said:
How am I supposed to think, if I don't exist?

I had to read that post like three times. :crankey:

Nobody thought themselves into fucking existence.

You don't know if you were really doing the things you remember?

Eat a bowl of cereal, leave the bowl on the counter then see if it still exists in an hour.


Am I missing something?




no you are not missing anything, the fact that she means business in suggesting consciousness as a flourishing source of evil wills for now, is not anything positive to mention existing

freedoms like that are everywhere as nothing real, it doesn't matter anyway


Edited by absols (11/25/13 07:21 AM)


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19420999 - 01/15/14 02:06 AM (10 years, 16 days ago)

We do not only think, or calculate.. We feel.


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Icyus]
    #19421350 - 01/15/14 05:27 AM (10 years, 16 days ago)

stripped down to the essence, yes, we would not be without thinking, because essential thinking is consciousness: sensation, memory formation, association, feeling...
linguistic thinking is a subset of association

most reviews of this statement treat linguistic thinking as basic thought, and the homeless comments dependent on that spiral out of the galaxy into the bizzarro world


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19421354 - 01/15/14 05:30 AM (10 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
stripped down to the essence, yes, we would not be without thinking, because essential thinking is consciousness: sensation, memory formation, association, feeling...
linguistic thinking is a subset of association

most reviews of this statement treat linguistic thinking as basic thought, and the homeless comments dependent on that spiral out of the galaxy into the bizzarro world




A thought and a feeling is the same in the way energy and an atom is the same..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Icyus]
    #19421397 - 01/15/14 05:53 AM (10 years, 16 days ago)

no, a thought is a series of activations of specifically arranged neurons
and so is a feeling.

the only difference is that the feeling includes pain or pleasure


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19425637 - 01/15/14 11:49 PM (10 years, 15 days ago)

I think, therefore I am.

And thus the concept of I-ness/ego is born.

How about, instead:

Nothing thinks/there is no thought, therefore All is/everything exists.  Descartes should have tripped on shrooms.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineSse
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19427989 - 01/16/14 01:13 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

or if u view I as the collective in all of its happenings... all of its interdependencies. Seeing it for what it is, reactions and mental images interdependently co-arising... self is entirely made of nonself elements... all in the one, one in the all.  unitary vision.


--------------------
"Springs of water welling from the fire"

"Life may seem to flee in a moment, but when the mind is freed of the veil of ignorance, and illusion that comes between the mind and the truth, life and death are only opposite sides of the same coin - "water welling from the fire."


"Within us, we carry the world of no-birth and no-death. But we never touch it, because we live only with our notions."
-Thich Nhat Hanh
instant
"Experience always goes beyond ideas"


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428373 - 01/16/14 02:26 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I think, therefore I am.

And thus the concept of I-ness/ego is born.

How about, instead:

Nothing thinks/there is no thought, therefore All is/everything exists.  Descartes should have tripped on shrooms.





"How about, instead"

Because that's nonsense.
Where is the evidence that everything exists?
I think, so 2/4 parts of that statement are false.
Why is "All is"? Don't see a correlation.

Eastern philosophy is pretty damn weak, spit out bullshit half sentences and pretend its wisdom.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19428405 - 01/16/14 02:33 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Have you ever experienced ego death/ego loss?

Words are pretty ineffectual at describing the mystical experience, which is why (the good parts) of Eastern philosophy tend to sound contradictory or tautological to the rational mind.

Perhaps a better version of what I'm trying to say would be Nothing thinks/there is no thought, therefore Being.  I'm attempting to represent the experience of ego death in my conclusion, if that makes any sense.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee] * 1
    #19428414 - 01/16/14 02:34 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

How about "I think that I think, therefore I think that I am."  (Ambrose Bierce)

Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19428427 - 01/16/14 02:37 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
How about "I think that I think, therefore I think that I am."  (Ambrose Bierce)

Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum



"I am delluded that I think, thus I fool myself with an other dellusion."


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428460 - 01/16/14 02:43 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Have you ever experienced ego death/ego loss?

Words are pretty ineffectual at describing the mystical experience, which is why (the good parts) of Eastern philosophy tend to sound contradictory or tautological to the rational mind.

Perhaps a better version of what I'm trying to say would be Nothing thinks/there is no thought, therefore Being.  I'm attempting to represent the experience of ego death in my conclusion, if that makes any sense.  :shrug:





I've had experiences forgetting my existence, and eventually death will come which will likely obliterate consciousness. None of that matters in the context of the original quote, "I exist, therefore I exist."


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Icyus]
    #19428463 - 01/16/14 02:44 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Icyus said:

"I am delluded that I think, thus I fool myself with an other dellusion."




That certainly would be a delllusion


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19428465 - 01/16/14 02:44 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

The trouble is that "I exist" carries with it an implicit assumption that the self (I) exists.  This is not necessarily true, or at least the definition of the self isn't always consistent.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineSse
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Sse]
    #19428473 - 01/16/14 02:46 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

"Pure self is the ultimate reality, the ground state of the universe... all that exists. If we concede to duality... at least it has to be at the core of everything." -interviewer, don't know his name


"Electrons are both waves and particles. They are both and neither. Its hard to pin down. Just like we are neither one nor separate." -lama surya das




Edited by Sse (01/16/14 02:48 PM)


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428477 - 01/16/14 02:46 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

David Icke had a good input on this..


--------------------
And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428515 - 01/16/14 02:54 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
The trouble is that "I exist" carries with it an implicit assumption that the self (I) exists.  This is not necessarily true, or at least the definition of the self isn't always consistent.




It suggests existence, which is self-evident.
My own existence as an individual is too self-evident.

Here is the proof.

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:




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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19428554 - 01/16/14 03:01 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
My own existence as an individual is too self-evident.




Your sense of self-identity as "I" is a mere illusion, carried out by your brain's temporal lobe.  Upon disrupting the normal functioning of your temporal lobe with either transcranial magnetic stimulation or psychedelic drugs, your sense of self as an individual falls away--typically referred to as becoming one with everything.  Like I said, either this implies that the self doesn't really exist, or that the self can be arbitrarily redefined as the Universe.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19428566 - 01/16/14 03:04 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:
Quote:

Into The Woods said:
How am I supposed to think, if I don't exist?

I had to read that post like three times. :crankey:

Nobody thought themselves into fucking existence.

You don't know if you were really doing the things you remember?

Eat a bowl of cereal, leave the bowl on the counter then see if it still exists in an hour.


Am I missing something?




The shadow of existence is that thought or matter? The existential crisis. The adversarial outcry and rebellion. Is the cereal there? Or is it the nourishment of the hologram. I think its there, and so the wave function collapses into material of cereal on the counter, but not material, into image or hologram.




Doesn't matter if everything is a hologram, I can be a hologram with a finite time for existence, but I still exist.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428576 - 01/16/14 03:07 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
My own existence as an individual is too self-evident.




Your sense of self-identity as "I" is a mere illusion, carried out by your brain's temporal lobe.  Upon disrupting the normal functioning of your temporal lobe with either transcranial magnetic stimulation or psychedelic drugs, your sense of self as an individual falls away--typically referred to as becoming one with everything.  Like I said, either this implies that the self doesn't really exist, or that the self can be arbitrarily redefined as the Universe.




It doesn't matter how you define the self.

We're having this conversation.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19428581 - 01/16/14 03:08 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

This conversation is occurring between two human beings right now, yes.  Doesn't mean that this thing called the "self", as normally defined, exists.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428608 - 01/16/14 03:13 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
This conversation is occurring between two human beings right now, yes.  Doesn't mean that this thing called the "self", as normally defined, exists.




I'm not in any cults and have no interest in collecting "selfs".

As for the past twenty four years going through this bullshit existence, its very real and short of death or a coma there's no way around that. I've tripped hundreds of times off a number of psychedelics and they have no bearing on whether or not I exist or have existed at some point.

Next time I have to go to work, I'll stay home and tell myself the job doesn't exist.


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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19428618 - 01/16/14 03:14 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

The illusion of the self re-establishes itself quickly after the drug wears off or the TMS stops, sure.  We live the majority of our daily lives thinking we have a self.  Doesn't mean it's real or that its definition can't change.  :shrug:


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428643 - 01/16/14 03:18 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
The illusion of the self re-establishes itself quickly after the drug wears off or the TMS stops, sure.  We live the majority of our daily lives thinking we have a self.  Doesn't mean it's real or that its definition can't change.  :shrug:




Someone's chi reading is irrelevant to reality however


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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19428658 - 01/16/14 03:21 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Not if you're charismatic and market your chi readings to enough gullible New Agers so you become a millionaire.  :tongue:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428700 - 01/16/14 03:27 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Not if you're charismatic and market your chi readings to enough gullible New Agers so you become a millionaire.  :tongue:




Well this is true, starting a cult is definitely profitable and I've considered it before. The damage they inflict on people's lives and our society in general is too much to overlook though


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Repertoire89]
    #19428704 - 01/16/14 03:28 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

There are destructive cults and then there are non-destructive cults.  What's damaging about giving people a meaning and purpose to their lives?  A sense of community and love can be enormously beneficial to someone who may have never had the chance to experience a loving family before.  :satansmoking:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428714 - 01/16/14 03:31 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
There are destructive cults and then there are non-destructive cults.  What's damaging about giving people a meaning and purpose to their lives?  A sense of community and love can be enormously beneficial to someone who may have never had the chance to experience a loving family before.  :satansmoking:




The delusions and lies they're basing their lives on, there could very well be something we can do for ourselves instead. Maybe there is some mystical path for us to find, and its hidden behind thousands of years of lies and twisted truths

If there isn't, then the damage it inflicts on scientific progress is bad enough to make up for that


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19428959 - 01/16/14 04:17 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:

Your sense of self-identity as "I" is a mere illusion, carried out by your brain's temporal lobe.  Upon disrupting the normal functioning of your temporal lobe with either transcranial magnetic stimulation or psychedelic drugs, your sense of self as an individual falls away--typically referred to as becoming one with everything.  Like I said, either this implies that the self doesn't really exist, or that the self can be arbitrarily redefined as the Universe.




I like that -- good post.

I think perhaps some of the confusion here could be alleviated if we stopped relying too much on the verb "to be."  Quite a debate has flared up over what "is" or "is not."  Perhaps it would be more appropriate to discuss how things *appear* rather than how they "are."


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #19428980 - 01/16/14 04:22 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I think perhaps some of the confusion here could be alleviated if we stopped relying too much on the verb "to be."  Quite a debate has flared up over what "is" or "is not."  Perhaps it would be more appropriate to discuss how things *appear* rather than how they "are."




Quote:

E-Prime (short for English-Prime, sometimes denoted É or E′) is a prescriptive version of the English language that excludes all forms of the verb to be. E-Prime does not allow the conjugations of to be—be, am, is, are, was, were, been, being— the archaic forms of to be (e.g. art, wast, wert), or the contractions of to be—'s, 'm, 're (e.g. I'm, he's, she's, they're).



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19429159 - 01/16/14 04:57 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Have you ever experienced ego death/ego loss?

Words are pretty ineffectual at describing the mystical experience, which is why (the good parts) of Eastern philosophy tend to sound contradictory or tautological to the rational mind.

Perhaps a better version of what I'm trying to say would be Nothing thinks/there is no thought, therefore Being.  I'm attempting to represent the experience of ego death in my conclusion, if that makes any sense.  :shrug:




STFU


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Icelander]
    #19429169 - 01/16/14 05:00 PM (10 years, 14 days ago)

You're either flaming or pointing out that silence is the best choice when it comes to trying (and failing) to express mystical experiences using language.

I'm assuming the latter.  :lol:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Invisiblehmmn


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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #19431911 - 01/17/14 05:15 AM (10 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Ellis Dee said:

Well, I am thinking. Therefore I must be. What must I be?





Descartes's line of reasoning went "I think, therefore I am; or at least, therefore a thinking being is."  Perhaps this is flawed; couldn't there just be thinking?

Descartes assumes early in Meditations that cognitive activity must have an actor performing it in order to appear.  Why must it have an actor?  Do other natural phenomenon require an actor to occur?  e.g. does wind require an entity that "winds"?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
    #19432769 - 01/17/14 11:20 AM (10 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Have you ever experienced ego death/ego loss?

Words are pretty ineffectual at describing the mystical experience, which is why (the good parts) of Eastern philosophy tend to sound contradictory or tautological to the rational mind.

Perhaps a better version of what I'm trying to say would be Nothing thinks/there is no thought, therefore Being.  I'm attempting to represent the experience of ego death in my conclusion, if that makes any sense.  :shrug:



mystical experience happens when multiple moments coexist in the brain
ideas and their opposites become associated and coexist with past and present.
attempting to use logic (a linear procession of linked ideas and images) that invokes mystical ideas (non-linear overlapping tableaux of ideas and images) always fails to satisfy.

what was experienced cannot be denied (it is taken to be realization)

this is like the game scissors cut paper, paper wraps stone, stone smashes scissors.


quoting myself,
Quote:

well a mystical state of mind (which includes emotion or drug like experiencing) is like the rock,
and logic is like scissors.

basically emotional state of mind will smash logic (can't be argued)

what then is the 3rd entity, what is the paper???
what is that thing that logic can cut, yet still wraps rock/ emotion.

I think it is abiding.
aka sitting by, or being with.
(one person sitting beside themselves, or another person sitting by the afflicted one, or even a whole circle of people sitting beside an afflicted one)

when a person adds their consciousness, un-judging, but observant awareness to the rock (emotion) the conscious awareness wraps the rock.





in the east people venerate spiritual "trip reports" like holy rocks
and use the telling of them to break scissoring logic when they can get away with it
it is very much like temper tantrums but much more dignified.


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OfflineIcyus
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: redgreenvines]
    #19432926 - 01/17/14 11:55 AM (10 years, 13 days ago)

I just looked into my tablet and it felt me dumbfounded....it is wayyyyyy smarter than me..


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And thus begins the  reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Icyus] * 2
    #19433240 - 01/17/14 01:14 PM (10 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Icyus said:
I just looked into my tablet and it felt me dumbfounded....it is wayyyyyy smarter than me..



but would it fight to defend it's opinions?


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