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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Icyus]
#19428463 - 01/16/14 02:44 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icyus said:
"I am delluded that I think, thus I fool myself with an other dellusion."
That certainly would be a delllusion
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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The trouble is that "I exist" carries with it an implicit assumption that the self (I) exists. This is not necessarily true, or at least the definition of the self isn't always consistent.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Sse
Saṃsāra

Registered: 12/28/12
Posts: 2,769
Loc: Interdependent Co-arising
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Sse]
#19428473 - 01/16/14 02:46 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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"Pure self is the ultimate reality, the ground state of the universe... all that exists. If we concede to duality... at least it has to be at the core of everything." -interviewer, don't know his name
"Electrons are both waves and particles. They are both and neither. Its hard to pin down. Just like we are neither one nor separate." -lama surya das
Edited by Sse (01/16/14 02:48 PM)
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Icyus
KavitārkikasiṃHa



Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 3,502
Loc: Inbetween.
Last seen: 8 years, 27 days
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19428477 - 01/16/14 02:46 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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David Icke had a good input on this..
-------------------- And thus begins the reverse-fusing of our one-dimentional understanding, and adds ever-expanding perspectives, in depth and number; splitting our perception, and in so doing, seemingly irrationally, creates yet more one-ness, with all that ever was, is and will ever be, streching across the infinite, inunderstood concept of everything, percievable and not.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19428515 - 01/16/14 02:54 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: The trouble is that "I exist" carries with it an implicit assumption that the self (I) exists. This is not necessarily true, or at least the definition of the self isn't always consistent.
It suggests existence, which is self-evident. My own existence as an individual is too self-evident.
Here is the proof.
Quote:
Repertoire89 said:
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
Repertoire89 said: My own existence as an individual is too self-evident.
Your sense of self-identity as "I" is a mere illusion, carried out by your brain's temporal lobe. Upon disrupting the normal functioning of your temporal lobe with either transcranial magnetic stimulation or psychedelic drugs, your sense of self as an individual falls away--typically referred to as becoming one with everything. Like I said, either this implies that the self doesn't really exist, or that the self can be arbitrarily redefined as the Universe.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19428566 - 01/16/14 03:04 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
Into The Woods said: How am I supposed to think, if I don't exist?
I had to read that post like three times. 
Nobody thought themselves into fucking existence.
You don't know if you were really doing the things you remember?
Eat a bowl of cereal, leave the bowl on the counter then see if it still exists in an hour.
Am I missing something?
The shadow of existence is that thought or matter? The existential crisis. The adversarial outcry and rebellion. Is the cereal there? Or is it the nourishment of the hologram. I think its there, and so the wave function collapses into material of cereal on the counter, but not material, into image or hologram.
Doesn't matter if everything is a hologram, I can be a hologram with a finite time for existence, but I still exist.
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19428576 - 01/16/14 03:07 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Quote:
Repertoire89 said: My own existence as an individual is too self-evident.
Your sense of self-identity as "I" is a mere illusion, carried out by your brain's temporal lobe. Upon disrupting the normal functioning of your temporal lobe with either transcranial magnetic stimulation or psychedelic drugs, your sense of self as an individual falls away--typically referred to as becoming one with everything. Like I said, either this implies that the self doesn't really exist, or that the self can be arbitrarily redefined as the Universe.
It doesn't matter how you define the self.
We're having this conversation.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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This conversation is occurring between two human beings right now, yes. Doesn't mean that this thing called the "self", as normally defined, exists.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19428608 - 01/16/14 03:13 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: This conversation is occurring between two human beings right now, yes. Doesn't mean that this thing called the "self", as normally defined, exists.
I'm not in any cults and have no interest in collecting "selfs".
As for the past twenty four years going through this bullshit existence, its very real and short of death or a coma there's no way around that. I've tripped hundreds of times off a number of psychedelics and they have no bearing on whether or not I exist or have existed at some point.
Next time I have to go to work, I'll stay home and tell myself the job doesn't exist.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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The illusion of the self re-establishes itself quickly after the drug wears off or the TMS stops, sure. We live the majority of our daily lives thinking we have a self. Doesn't mean it's real or that its definition can't change.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19428643 - 01/16/14 03:18 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: The illusion of the self re-establishes itself quickly after the drug wears off or the TMS stops, sure. We live the majority of our daily lives thinking we have a self. Doesn't mean it's real or that its definition can't change. 
Someone's chi reading is irrelevant to reality however
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Not if you're charismatic and market your chi readings to enough gullible New Agers so you become a millionaire.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19428700 - 01/16/14 03:27 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Not if you're charismatic and market your chi readings to enough gullible New Agers so you become a millionaire. 
Well this is true, starting a cult is definitely profitable and I've considered it before. The damage they inflict on people's lives and our society in general is too much to overlook though
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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There are destructive cults and then there are non-destructive cults. What's damaging about giving people a meaning and purpose to their lives? A sense of community and love can be enormously beneficial to someone who may have never had the chance to experience a loving family before.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Repertoire89
Cat



Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 21,773
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19428714 - 01/16/14 03:31 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: There are destructive cults and then there are non-destructive cults. What's damaging about giving people a meaning and purpose to their lives? A sense of community and love can be enormously beneficial to someone who may have never had the chance to experience a loving family before. 
The delusions and lies they're basing their lives on, there could very well be something we can do for ourselves instead. Maybe there is some mystical path for us to find, and its hidden behind thousands of years of lies and twisted truths
If there isn't, then the damage it inflicts on scientific progress is bad enough to make up for that
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19428959 - 01/16/14 04:17 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said:
Your sense of self-identity as "I" is a mere illusion, carried out by your brain's temporal lobe. Upon disrupting the normal functioning of your temporal lobe with either transcranial magnetic stimulation or psychedelic drugs, your sense of self as an individual falls away--typically referred to as becoming one with everything. Like I said, either this implies that the self doesn't really exist, or that the self can be arbitrarily redefined as the Universe.
I like that -- good post.
I think perhaps some of the confusion here could be alleviated if we stopped relying too much on the verb "to be." Quite a debate has flared up over what "is" or "is not." Perhaps it would be more appropriate to discuss how things *appear* rather than how they "are."
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I think perhaps some of the confusion here could be alleviated if we stopped relying too much on the verb "to be." Quite a debate has flared up over what "is" or "is not." Perhaps it would be more appropriate to discuss how things *appear* rather than how they "are."
Quote:
E-Prime (short for English-Prime, sometimes denoted É or E′) is a prescriptive version of the English language that excludes all forms of the verb to be. E-Prime does not allow the conjugations of to be—be, am, is, are, was, were, been, being— the archaic forms of to be (e.g. art, wast, wert), or the contractions of to be—'s, 'm, 're (e.g. I'm, he's, she's, they're).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: deCypher]
#19429159 - 01/16/14 04:57 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: Have you ever experienced ego death/ego loss?
Words are pretty ineffectual at describing the mystical experience, which is why (the good parts) of Eastern philosophy tend to sound contradictory or tautological to the rational mind.
Perhaps a better version of what I'm trying to say would be Nothing thinks/there is no thought, therefore Being. I'm attempting to represent the experience of ego death in my conclusion, if that makes any sense. 
STFU
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: I think, therefore I am [Re: Icelander]
#19429169 - 01/16/14 05:00 PM (10 years, 14 days ago) |
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You're either flaming or pointing out that silence is the best choice when it comes to trying (and failing) to express mystical experiences using language.
I'm assuming the latter.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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