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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this...
    #19185245 - 11/25/13 01:06 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Not sure if it's been posted before, but WTF.. I hate fucking PIGS like this.



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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19185265 - 11/25/13 01:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well... A lot of the stuff the guy that's making the video is saying is only half truths.

Yes, technically it's correct... but I'm pretty sure that a lot of states have got around the supreme courts ruling about sobriety check points being unconstitutional in a couple of different ways.

But yeah, police are retarded.


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Offlinetripp23
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: LordSenate]
    #19185280 - 11/25/13 01:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

i hope this goes viral and people wake up.. *I wish* :sad:

Edit: nvm lol 4 million views.  These cops are fucked  :bigyesnod:


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Edited by tripp23 (11/25/13 01:32 AM)


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: tripp23]
    #19185294 - 11/25/13 01:38 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No those cops aren't fucked but okay. It would be nice if it worked like that, but for the majority of the time it doesn't.

As I stated quite a few states have bent rules with checkpoints to get away with still doing checkpoints..they just called it something else and did a few other things.

Viral? Have you seen the amount of videos showing mentally retarded and power crazy police on youtube? lol


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InvisiblezZZz
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: LordSenate]
    #19185321 - 11/25/13 01:59 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

tl;dw

tell me something i dont know


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: tripp23]
    #19185325 - 11/25/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

tripp23 said:
i hope this goes viral and people wake up.. *I wish* :sad:




this already went viral.. like 6 months ago
If you think this is bad there's like 500,000 worse videos I could show you

Exhibit A


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Invisiblethescientist
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Shroomism]
    #19185327 - 11/25/13 02:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Post up your favorites!


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: thescientist]
    #19185342 - 11/25/13 02:16 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Completely unrelated, but I watched the most disturbing episode of "Disappeared" ever: http://movies.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movieid=70289588&trkid=3325854

One black guy and one Mexican illegal immigrant "disappeared" under mysterious circumstances after they both had a run-in with the same deputy. Both of these men should have been arrested for driving without licenses, but both of them "mysteriously" vanished into thin air after the deputy placed them in the back of the cop car and drove off, never to be seen again. His story is that he allegedly dropped both of them off at the Circle K after they disappeared, which strikes me as an obvious lie.

His name is Deputy Steven Caulkins. Internal affairs had to investigate this deputy and he failed a polygraph and GPS on his device located him to 12 possible remote areas where he may have buried some bodies, but no bodies ever turned up in the areas. But he remains free to this day, no charges on him have ever been filed.

This deputy definitely had something to do with their disappearances. Watch that episode man, it gave me the creeps. "Disappeared" Season 5 Episode 4


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Crystal G]
    #19185356 - 11/25/13 02:36 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah.. you know its kind of normal when you only have circumstantial evidence for someone to not have charges filed... Kinda screws up your case when you jump the gun


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Offlinespazmodog
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: LordSenate]
    #19185390 - 11/25/13 03:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

have u seen this yet? it starts off exactly like the OP video.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19185392 - 11/25/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Broken video


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Offlinespazmodog
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: LordSenate]
    #19185402 - 11/25/13 03:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

heres the direct link


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: LordSenate]
    #19185515 - 11/25/13 05:40 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

LordSenate said:
I'm pretty sure that a lot of states have got around the supreme courts ruling about sobriety check points being unconstitutional in a couple of different ways.




The Supreme Court has held sobriety checkpoints to be constitutional.  Some states have ruled them unconstitutional under state constitutions, but under the U.S. Constitution, sobriety checkpoints are fine.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Crystal G]
    #19185522 - 11/25/13 05:45 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
His name is Deputy Steven Caulkins. Internal affairs had to investigate this deputy and he failed a polygraph and GPS on his device located him to 12 possible remote areas where he may have buried some bodies, but no bodies ever turned up in the areas. But he remains free to this day, no charges on him have ever been filed.




There's nothing to charge him with.  All they have is a failed polygraph.  They can't even prove that the two guys were harmed, much less that he had anything to do with it.


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InvisibleLordSenate
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19185526 - 11/25/13 05:48 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the heads up.. I could have sworn I read something to the contrary but my memory is spotty at best.


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Offlinerohr
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: LordSenate]
    #19185816 - 11/25/13 08:19 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I know the young man was completely within his rights to roll the window down part way, and I think the actions of those bullies with badges was excessive and unnecessary... but the young man acted suspicious.

I'm proud of him to for being somewhat aware of his rights and flexing them, but I believe flexing your rights INCLUDES refraining from doing ANYTHING to give the pigs the "hunch" that they need to justify using their bullying tactics on you.

It was not unreasonable for the pig to ask the young man to roll his window down a little more during a DUI checkpoint on a night where many people drive intoxicated so he could have a chance to detect the smell of alcohol.

Cops are just people, and the situation can be manipulated by being polite and following instructions instead of being stern and reluctant to do anything the pigs say.

Still, though, fuck the police.


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Offlinethilfee
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19185831 - 11/25/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

there's always a dirty egg in a dozen,thats why i look when i buy them

look ahead and let someone else hold the smear brush:cool:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: rohr]
    #19185833 - 11/25/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The bottom line is that it's a bad idea to refuse a cop's orders, lawful or not.  This is for several reasons:

1. Many states allow an obstruction charge for refusing even unlawful orders.

2. It's unlikely that a layman has the necessary knowledge and experience to determine whether the order is lawful under the circumstances and in the few moments available to make that determination

3. Following unlawful orders is, by far, the best way to get the cops to violate your rights in a way significant enough to justify a civil rights suit later on.


The real key to situations like this is to tell the cop, "I'm going to do what you say, even though I don't consent and I believe your request to be improper."  That way, your lawyer can sort out whether or not you have a case, in the comfort of his office while reading case law on the specific issues at hand.  It's a much, much better way to handle it than challenging a man with a loaded weapon on a dark road.


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Offlinemindgnome
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19185925 - 11/25/13 08:51 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)



--------------------
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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: mindgnome]
    #19185947 - 11/25/13 08:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's pretty close, but I wouldn't advise riding that long with a siren blaring before pulling over.  I'd also advise not being/riding around with such piss-poor actors.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19186101 - 11/25/13 09:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You guys are missing the point of the OP, which shows how police can use a K9 DOG to illegally search/seize. A dog who can't be tried in court, can't answer questioning from cross examination, at the same time having legal rights/status that are on par with a human police officer (you kill a K9 officer it's almost worse at times than killing a cop), and who is fucking TRAINED to obey his master. This is the fucked up thing that cops are doing.


Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 09:50 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186148 - 11/25/13 09:57 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

K9 dogs have no rights.  No dogs have any rights.

And while you can't cross-examine the dog, you can use the dog's training and record to challenge a search.

The day may come when K9 dogs are recognized as being heavily flawed tools.  Until that happens, though, they are a powerful way that cops can create probable cause.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186162 - 11/25/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
K9 dogs have no rights.  No dogs have any rights.
.



Not true... Look at Wikipedia (not saying it's always right).
Quote:

In many jurisdictions the intentional injuring or killing of a police dog is a felony,[1] subjecting the perpetrator to harsher penalties than those in the statutes embodied in local animal cruelty laws,[2] just as an assault on a human police officer is often a more serious offense than the same assault on a non-officer.




Even more:
http://www.policek9.com/html/statutes.html


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Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 10:08 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186185 - 11/25/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That doesn't mean that the dog has rights.  That means that YOU don't have the right to kill it or harm it.


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186226 - 11/25/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
The bottom line is that it's a bad idea to refuse a cop's orders, lawful or not.  This is for several reasons:

1. Many states allow an obstruction charge for refusing even unlawful orders.

2. It's unlikely that a layman has the necessary knowledge and experience to determine whether the order is lawful under the circumstances and in the few moments available to make that determination

3. Following unlawful orders is, by far, the best way to get the cops to violate your rights in a way significant enough to justify a civil rights suit later on.


The real key to situations like this is to tell the cop, "I'm going to do what you say, even though I don't consent and I believe your request to be improper."  That way, your lawyer can sort out whether or not you have a case, in the comfort of his office while reading case law on the specific issues at hand.  It's a much, much better way to handle it than challenging a man with a loaded weapon on a dark road.



Quote:

Enlil said:
The bottom line is that it's a bad idea to refuse a cop's orders, lawful or not.  This is for several reasons:

1. Many states allow an obstruction charge for refusing even unlawful orders.

2. It's unlikely that a layman has the necessary knowledge and experience to determine whether the order is lawful under the circumstances and in the few moments available to make that determination

3. Following unlawful orders is, by far, the best way to get the cops to violate your rights in a way significant enough to justify a civil rights suit later on.


The real key to situations like this is to tell the cop, "I'm going to do what you say, even though I don't consent and I believe your request to be improper."  That way, your lawyer can sort out whether or not you have a case, in the comfort of his office while reading case law on the specific issues at hand.  It's a much, much better way to handle it than challenging a man with a loaded weapon on a dark road.





This is key.

Minimizes confrontation that normally escalates a situation, yet retains your ability to confront the situation if you feel your rights have been infringed.


Personally whenever I deal with the police, I try to appease them, make them feel like they are doing a good job. This normally deescalates the situation. While making them feel like theyve done a good job already, means they normally dont look for stupid little excuses for them to "prove" to themselves that they have done a good job.

This is my experiences with Canadian cops anyways, Americans , you may be SOL.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186228 - 11/25/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If they can do something I can't, they have rights...
Quote:

A police service animal is exempt from quarantine or other animal control ordinances if it bites any person while under proper police supervision or routine veterinary care. The law enforcement agency and the animal's handler shall make the animal available for examination at any reasonable time and shall notify the local health officer if the animal exhibits any abnormal behavior.




Here is a right.... Just saying..


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Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 10:21 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186239 - 11/25/13 10:21 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moorning Due said:
If they can do something I can't, they have rights...



Maybe by your ignorant definition of the word "rights" but not by any universally accepted definition.

Birds can fly.  That doesn't mean they have a "right" to fly.  It means they have the ability.

All those laws you cited do is give the owners of the dogs the right to not have you kill them.  The dogs are chattel...they have no more rights than a toaster has.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186241 - 11/25/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Moorning Due said:
If they can do something I can't, they have rights...



Maybe by your ignorant definition of rights, but not by any universally accepted definition.

Birds can fly.  That doesn't mean they have a "right" to fly.  It means they have the ability.

All those laws you cited do is give the owners of the dogs the right to not have you kill them.  The dogs are chattel...they have no more rights than a toaster has.




A police service animal is exempt from quarantine or other animal control ordinances if it bites any person while under proper police supervision or routine veterinary care. The law enforcement agency and the animal's handler shall make the animal available for examination at any reasonable time and shall notify the local health officer if the animal exhibits any abnormal behavior.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186246 - 11/25/13 10:22 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Those aren't rights of the animal.  Those are rights of the animal's owner.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186268 - 11/25/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Those aren't rights of the animal.  Those are rights of the animal's owner.




Dude, your kidding right.. Stop being a lawyer for a second. It's the same thing as rights for a minor. 

All I was trying to say is that K9 dogs are being used as a tool that can be used to operate above/outside the law. I didn't want a debate.


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Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 10:27 AM)


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186280 - 11/25/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That doesn't mean that the dog has rights.  That means that YOU don't have the right to kill it or harm it.





I wouldnt agree with that.

If the crime for killing a police dog is more severe than killing a civilian dog. Then that would go towards showing the police dog had more rights against violence, in the way of providing a higher penalties against those who would harm it.

The repercussions against killing a police dog does not change based on who killed it. Those laws are in place for any individual who killed a police dog. However, those laws are not applied to ALL dogs.

To me that represents the right to higher levels of protection, via higher sentences of punishment, made to dissuade people from harming police dogs.

Police have this same right, while civilians do not. However, society feels the right to further protection are justified due to them being at a greater risk.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186286 - 11/25/13 10:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Moorning Due said:
If they can do something I can't, they have rights...



Maybe by your ignorant definition of the word "rights" but not by any universally accepted definition.

Birds can fly.  That doesn't mean they have a "right" to fly.  It means they have the ability.

All those laws you cited do is give the owners of the dogs the right to not have you kill them.  The dogs are chattel...they have no more rights than a toaster has.




And you don't have to be such an ass. I'm not ignorant by any means. Did you even read ALL of the laws before you made yourself look like a arrogant ass? Of course I was making a generalization of the term "rights"... But does that give you the right to call me ignorant? (exactly)


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Edited by Moorning Due (11/25/13 10:31 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186289 - 11/25/13 10:31 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's not the same at all. Minors have actual rights.  Dogs don't.  A dog can be legally killed at any time for any reason or no reason at all by its owner.  That is pretty much the very definition of having no rights.

If you didn't want a debate, you should have either: a)not posted false information, or b) not defended your false information when it was corrected.


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Offlinethilfee
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186297 - 11/25/13 10:33 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Those aren't rights of the animal.  Those are rights of the animal's owner.




the rights of the government to own dogs so they can bite criminals ,my head says in the long run dogs have rights too

off topic but just exactly now i was playing 'hurt' sung by johnny cash on youtube i think written by nin and as soon as it finished it was played on television as if i was connected to television and mr cash.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: EdibleStereos]
    #19186299 - 11/25/13 10:34 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

EdibleStereos said:

I wouldnt agree with that.

If the crime for killing a police dog is more severe than killing a civilian dog. Then that would go towards showing the police dog had more rights against violence, in the way of providing a higher penalties against those who would harm it.

The repercussions against killing a police dog does not change based on who killed it.



False.  The police can have their dogs put down at any time.  Dogs are chattel...nothing more.  The dogs have zero rights.  Police happen to enjoy additional protection for their dogs than you and I do.  That has nothing to do with the dog's rights.


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InvisibleMoorning Due
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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186309 - 11/25/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It's not the same at all. Minors have actual rights.  Dogs don't.  A dog can be legally killed at any time for any reason or no reason at all by its owner.  That is pretty much the very definition of having no rights.

If you didn't want a debate, you should have either: a)not posted false information, or b) not defended your false information when it was corrected.




Again with the arrogance... You must be compensating for something that you are very insecure about. I feel for you and I really hope that you can come to realize that trying to make other people feel small doesn't really make you any better. Hopefully, someday you will realize this.

I'm done with this thread.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186311 - 11/25/13 10:35 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moorning Due said:

And you don't have to be such an ass. I'm not ignorant by any means. Did you even read ALL of the laws before you made yourself look like a arrogant ass? Of course I was making a generalization of the term "rights"... But does that give you the right to call me ignorant? (exactly)



If you don't know the meaning of the word, that makes you ignorant of its meaning.  You shouldn't take it as an insult.  Everyone is ignorant of lots of things.  No human can know everything.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Moorning Due]
    #19186317 - 11/25/13 10:37 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Moorning Due said:
Again with the arrogance... You must be compensating for something that you are very insecure about. I feel for you and I really hope that you can come to realize that trying to make other people feel small doesn't really make you any better. Hopefully, someday you will realize this.

I'm done with this thread.



It's interesting how you had to turn this into something personal.  I hope you feel better now.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186377 - 11/25/13 10:53 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Police dogs have way more freedom than a civilian human.  I would consider the fact that they are exempt from our morality laws a set of rights in itself.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: lowbrow]
    #19186395 - 11/25/13 10:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

All dogs are exempt from morality.  Morality is a human construct.  As far as freedom goes, that depends on how you define freedom.  If you mean the ability to run around naked and piss where you want...sure.  If you mean the freedom to choose where you're going to go and what you're going to do, not so much.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Crystal G]
    #19186855 - 11/25/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Completely unrelated, but I watched the most disturbing episode of "Disappeared" ever: http://movies.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movieid=70289588&trkid=3325854

One black guy and one Mexican illegal immigrant "disappeared" under mysterious circumstances after they both had a run-in with the same deputy. Both of these men should have been arrested for driving without licenses, but both of them "mysteriously" vanished into thin air after the deputy placed them in the back of the cop car and drove off, never to be seen again. His story is that he allegedly dropped both of them off at the Circle K after they disappeared, which strikes me as an obvious lie.

His name is Deputy Steven Caulkins. Internal affairs had to investigate this deputy and he failed a polygraph and GPS on his device located him to 12 possible remote areas where he may have buried some bodies, but no bodies ever turned up in the areas. But he remains free to this day, no charges on him have ever been filed.

This deputy definitely had something to do with their disappearances. Watch that episode man, it gave me the creeps. "Disappeared" Season 5 Episode 4



i just read about that the other day. freaky, that someone was so vehement about people having their license on them while driving, that he killed people for not having it.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: akira_akuma]
    #19186866 - 11/25/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Allegedly...


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19186870 - 11/25/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yes, according to the "scary story" which we'll all enjoy... except you. killjoy. :lolsy:


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19187486 - 11/25/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
All dogs are exempt from morality.  Morality is a human construct.  As far as freedom goes, that depends on how you define freedom.  If you mean the ability to run around naked and piss where you want...sure.  If you mean the freedom to choose where you're going to go and what you're going to do, not so much.



Do you have the freedom to take a shit in the street?


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: lowbrow]
    #19187505 - 11/25/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

No, and neither do my dogs.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19187561 - 11/25/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)




Fuck the Police.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Zombi3]
    #19187679 - 11/25/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

so...  iono, the OP's vid isn't convincing me that the cops are acting in any way that should be judged.  i mean...  if the guys is doing his job and not jerking off on the job and letting obvious tips fly by, he is helping the situation.  like, if he hadn't been curious about the kid he COULD have been someone who was drugged up and smashed into you on the highway and killed everyone in your car.  likewise, given the fact that cops are this quick to jump down someone's throat - somehow the 911 bombing still happened.

i guess i'm saying there are instances where we need ppl like this, and i COULD HAVE benefit from ppl like this is spots where there were none.

i would judge a cop who pulls you over in the middle of the fucking country, in the middle of the night, for cruising in the passing lane and then gives you three $100 dollar tickets for ignoring traffic signals and blah blah blah.

i only watched the first vid tho, i should watch the rest.

[EDIT] ok the second video is pretty bad.  beating an unconscious guy ejected from his car is...  iono, that's bad.

man, i dunno who is terroristing who here...  what a mess.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19187869 - 11/25/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No, and neither do my dogs.




Police dogs and horses are allowed to.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: lowbrow]
    #19187896 - 11/25/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That's because the police let them do it.

That's my point.  The horses and the dogs don't get the choice.  They do what they are allowed to do by their owners...That is about as close to freedom as antebellum slaves had it.

My dogs can do whatever I allow them to do and nothing more.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19191593 - 11/26/13 11:47 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's because the police let them do it.

That's my point.  The horses and the dogs don't get the choice.  They do what they are allowed to do by their owners...That is about as close to freedom as antebellum slaves had it.

My dogs can do whatever I allow them to do and nothing more.




But if you let your dog shit in the street or on the sidewalk, you are legally liable to clean it up.  When a police dog or horse does it, it's with full impunity, the cops leave that shit.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: lowbrow]
    #19191611 - 11/26/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

So, you're saying that the cops have more rights than me?  I agree with that.  I've never said otherwise.

It still doesn't change the fact that neither the dogs, nor the horse, have any rights at all.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #19191622 - 11/26/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

is that because horses cant represent themselves in court?


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19191632 - 11/26/13 11:54 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

It's because horses can have everything they have (including their life) taken from them for any reason or no reason at all at any time by their owners.  The very fact that horses can BE owned proves that they have no rights.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19191637 - 11/26/13 11:55 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you're saying that the cops have more rights than me?  I agree with that.  I've never said otherwise.

It still doesn't change the fact that neither the dogs, nor the horse, have any rights at all.




They have plenty of defacto rights.  More than me.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: lowbrow]
    #19191641 - 11/26/13 11:56 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Nope.  You've yet to articulate a single right they have.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19191655 - 11/26/13 11:58 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It's because horses can have everything they have (including their life) taken from them for any reason or no reason at all at any time by their owners.  The very fact that horses can BE owned proves that they have no rights.




but they have pseudo-rights, i mean you cant keep an animal in squalor and abuse it.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19191676 - 11/26/13 12:02 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

That isn't based on the right of the animal, however.  In fact, most abused animals that are seized are killed by the agency that seizes them....That makes it pretty clear that the animal's rights weren't the motivation for seizing them in the first place.

Animal cruelty laws are not based on the rights of the animal.  They are based on a societal interest in reducing such behavior.  Animals are strictly property under the law.  Similarly, you're not allowed to remove the muffler from your car and drive it...that doesn't mean the car has rights.  It means society doesn't want your loud ass car driving around.  Society doesn't want to see certain animals harmed in certain ways, either.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19191714 - 11/26/13 12:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Police animals have the de facto right to defecate anyplace of their choosing.

Police animals have the de facto status of human being in the case of one of their deaths at the hands of a civilian.  Technically they have the post humous right to try their killer in a court of law as if they killed a human.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: lowbrow]
    #19191724 - 11/26/13 12:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

They have none of those rights, and they do not have the status of a human being.  Killing a dog is not murder in any state regardless of the owner of the dog.  Killing a police dog is an offense, but so is damaging a police car...That doesn't mean that a police car has rights.

You've been talking out of your ass in this thread for awhile, unless/until you come up with a better argument, I've got to leave you to your ignorance.


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Edited by Enlil (11/26/13 12:18 PM)


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19191758 - 11/26/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That isn't based on the right of the animal, however.  In fact, most abused animals that are seized are killed by the agency that seizes them....That makes it pretty clear that the animal's rights weren't the motivation for seizing them in the first place.

Animal cruelty laws are not based on the rights of the animal.  They are based on a societal interest in reducing such behavior.  Animals are strictly property under the law.  Similarly, you're not allowed to remove the muffler from your car and drive it...that doesn't mean the car has rights.  It means society doesn't want your loud ass car driving around.  Society doesn't want to see certain animals harmed in certain ways, either.




Yes. So if you asked people wether they beleived that  domesticated animals should have a right to a decent life. Many people would say yes


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19191771 - 11/26/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

People saying so does not make it so.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #19191776 - 11/26/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yes, im just trying to make the distinction between that and enils literal use of the word,
not everyone is a law man


Edited by spazmodog (11/26/13 12:29 PM)


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19191777 - 11/26/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I agree that many people would say that animals SHOULD have rights.  It is a popular sentiment, and one that has grown over the last few decades.

Animals currently have none, though, and it'd be hard to fit such rights into our culture.  For instance, cows are killed every day for food.  That's not going to change.  If that cow suddenly had some rights, could she be killed?  It's hard to argue that someone/something has any rights at all if they can be killed at the whim of their owner.

Even slaves couldn't be killed at the whim of their owners...at least not legally.

I believe we should protect animals from certain cruelties, but I also believe that without the right not to be killed at the whim of someone else, one can't have any rights at all.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19191801 - 11/26/13 12:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

so do people on death row have any more rights than a cow?


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19191810 - 11/26/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

:facepalm:


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19191869 - 11/26/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

spazmodog said:
so do people on death row have any more rights than a cow?



First, I would argue that people on death row are not there "at the whim of someone else."

Second, though I am vehemently against the death penalty, I would argue that the road to execution (in the U.S. at least) is all about protecting the rights of the accused, and it takes many years of checks and balances before someone is executed.  If anything, this confirms the amount of rights that humans enjoy in the U.S.

Finally, humans enjoy the right not to have their life taken without due process.  The key here is "due process."  Animals don't get any due process when they're killed.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19191914 - 11/26/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yes plus we dont eat dead convicts


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: spazmodog]
    #19191953 - 11/26/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Speak for yourself.


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19191973 - 11/26/13 01:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

live ones are better,
nothing like a fresh pumping artery
mmmm


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: Enlil]
    #19191998 - 11/26/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

If you kill a police dog you get tried for killing a cop.  Not a cop's dog, not vandallism,but killing a cop.

How is that not a de facto posthumous right?


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Re: Fucking hate pigs even more after watching this... [Re: lowbrow]
    #19192024 - 11/26/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
If you kill a police dog you get tried for killing a cop.  Not a cop's dog, not vandallism,but killing a cop.




This is false.  Probably a lie, maybe a mistake, but definitely false.


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