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MrHill
Tripper



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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: ChinChiller]
#19246461 - 12/08/13 06:21 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but you clearly don't produce EDM.  Much more goes into it than that. Sure it's easier to visually see where the harmonics and melody are, etc. But you're missing the whole aspect of synth design. Producers aren't using presets on their VSTs. They're taking a synthesizer, and programming a wave form to create the exact sound they want. This takes years and years of practice to get right, and is a lot harder than simply tuning a guitar, or plugging it into a certain amp and programming that. On top of that, not only are they creating and designing the bass, the melody, the chords, the drums, etc. They are mixing and mastering the track as a whole. Literally not only composing, and inventing the specific sounds they want, but also acting as an audio engineer. The cool thing about electronic music is that you're taking something that is usually created by a band of 3 + people, and shrinking it down into one person. This takes an immense amount of talent, as you must have knowledge on all the different sounds you are trying to create.
Being able to play an instrument is far easier than being able to compose a full track, usually with 30+ channels, designing each sound on a synth (excluding drum samples, usually. Though there are a lot of programs were you can create your own drum sounds from synths)and mixing it and mastering it to give it that professional polish.
I've been an electronic music producer for many years now, and am nowhere near Deadmau5's level. And it's not becuase I suck, it's because he's been doing it longer, and knows exactly what to do with his skills. With that said, I still stand by my point that he's not the best around.
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un-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: ChinChiller]
#19246670 - 12/08/13 07:04 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said: There are such better EDM artists than Deadmau5, especially live. It was so bad.
You need to change it up musically/make it a different experience when performing live, thats why people pay to see artists perform. It is much harder to do this with EDM because you make your set at home (which in theory makes it not live)
Deadmau5 is one of those artists who doesnt contribute much to his live sets thus making him less of an artist and more of an at home producer, which is cool and all, but
A whole lot of EDM is bullshit and Deadmau5 is a contributor to this, along with a lot of other mainstream EDM producers.
You have been trained classically you should be able to see the simplicity of some EDM in comparison to other musical compostions/genres especially melodically with the technology available today it is easy as fuck to match up harmonics, it takes way less skill/intonation than playing an instrument live. To even compare a computer to an instrument is absurd. Not only melodically, but the fact it is pre-recorded percussion/bass devalues it as an art form. If deadmau5 was recording his own drum and bass from a kit I would give him a little more credit, but he isnt.
TL;DR---Most EDM is fun to dance to or whatever (especially on MDxx) however, as an artform it does not compare to the skill involved with other genres besides the fact someone composed it (which is much easier with technology like computers which match pitches and harmonies for you).
The problem here is the premise that playing an instrument is the highest form of musical expression, which it is not, frankly. I am probably a better instrumentalist than Deadmau5, but what is that worth? Nothing, that's what. You want it to be something that it's not, man. It's not worse--it's different. Imagine music where you remove the human element. There is no error. It is perfect and precise. Once you remove the shackles of intonation and timing, you can do anything. You're hung up on this skill aspect of it, when that has nothing to do with the quality of the final product.
I once had the pleasure of watching Joshua Bell, the virtuoso violinist, and even though my brain wasn't melting from MDMA, it was quite a nice show. Very entertaining, captivating even, to watch the artistry of what he was doing. No doubt, that's an extremely talented man who has more skill than I could ever fathom. Deadmau5, or Joel Zimmerman, probably couldn't play a scale on a violin, but you know what? His music hits harder, it sounds bigger, it's groovier, it incorporates more "instruments," and it's perfect. Everything about it is perfect. The timing and tuning are all perfect. And it's incredibly pleasing to the ear. So it's a matter of having the tools to go farther musically than we ever have in the past, and that's what an electronic musician does. I love instrumentation, I really do, and I respect it, but it's not the hallmark of great music. If you define music in certain terms, which many people are guilty of, then you'll never be able to appreciate electronic music as an art form. You just won't. You have to remove that programming, and then maybe you'll have a eureka moment.
I don't know if you were just commenting on EDM, specifically, but you were making what seemed like generalizations about electronic music as a whole.
Edited by un-known-ome (12/08/13 07:07 PM)
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
#19246929 - 12/08/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was just commenting on Deadmau5 as a live performer. I definitely have an appreciation for other forms of electronic music.
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Viveka
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
#19247528 - 12/08/13 10:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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So it's a matter of having the tools to go farther musically than we ever have in the past, and that's what an electronic musician does.
That's what an electronic musician should do. A massive problem here is that it seems that go further, to you and a lot of people, means having the sound hit harder and sound bigger. So basically in a sense you think taking music further means fuck loads of compression which ironically is the scourge of sound production quality across all modern music at the moment and is definitely holding the collective mind back since people are now so concerned with everything being big and loud.
Further, as far as an electronic musician going farther musically than before, what does production value really have to do with music? Yes, electronic producers should be able to do wild new things with music but instead these EDM heads are largely just making more fancy house music and polishing it better than ever before. That's not advancing music.
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un-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: Viveka]
#19248931 - 12/09/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Viveka said:
Quote:
So it's a matter of having the tools to go farther musically than we ever have in the past, and that's what an electronic musician does.
That's what an electronic musician should do. A massive problem here is that it seems that go further, to you and a lot of people, means having the sound hit harder and sound bigger. So basically in a sense you think taking music further means fuck loads of compression which ironically is the scourge of sound production quality across all modern music at the moment and is definitely holding the collective mind back since people are now so concerned with everything being big and loud.
Further, as far as an electronic musician going farther musically than before, what does production value really have to do with music? Yes, electronic producers should be able to do wild new things with music but instead these EDM heads are largely just making more fancy house music and polishing it better than ever before. That's not advancing music.
I think this would be an appropriate time to mention that I DO NOT listen to the broader genre of EDM. Of that genre, I only listen to Deadmau5, and I don't really have any consideration for other producers. So there must be a reason for that. It never occurs to me that his music is the same old EDM garbage--I swear that there's something different about it. For instance, Avicii makes me want to punch a baby in the face. I think we both would agree that EDM is generally shit, and that's very difficult to argue the other way. And I wouldn't. But I don't lump Deadmau5 is with that genre, actually. I just don't.
This is a track Deadmau5' real like EDM album, from 2010, 4x4=12. It's like it's its own genre. I mean, do you really just call this EDM trash?
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hgmstl
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
#19248940 - 12/09/13 06:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Dead-mau-5 is a talentless bitch
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Apollyphelion
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
#19248977 - 12/09/13 07:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
un-known-ome said:
Quote:
Viveka said:
Quote:
So it's a matter of having the tools to go farther musically than we ever have in the past, and that's what an electronic musician does.
That's what an electronic musician should do. A massive problem here is that it seems that go further, to you and a lot of people, means having the sound hit harder and sound bigger. So basically in a sense you think taking music further means fuck loads of compression which ironically is the scourge of sound production quality across all modern music at the moment and is definitely holding the collective mind back since people are now so concerned with everything being big and loud.
Further, as far as an electronic musician going farther musically than before, what does production value really have to do with music? Yes, electronic producers should be able to do wild new things with music but instead these EDM heads are largely just making more fancy house music and polishing it better than ever before. That's not advancing music.
I think this would be an appropriate time to mention that I DO NOT listen to the broader genre of EDM. Of that genre, I only listen to Deadmau5, and I don't really have any consideration for other producers. So there must be a reason for that. It never occurs to me that his music is the same old EDM garbage--I swear that there's something different about it. For instance, Avicii makes me want to punch a baby in the face. I think we both would agree that EDM is generally shit, and that's very difficult to argue the other way. And I wouldn't. But I don't lump Deadmau5 is with that genre, actually. I just don't.
This is a track Deadmau5' real like EDM album, from 2010, 4x4=12. It's like it's its own genre. I mean, do you really just call this EDM trash?
Quote:
un-known-ome said:
Quote:
Viveka said:
Quote:
So it's a matter of having the tools to go farther musically than we ever have in the past, and that's what an electronic musician does.
That's what an electronic musician should do. A massive problem here is that it seems that go further, to you and a lot of people, means having the sound hit harder and sound bigger. So basically in a sense you think taking music further means fuck loads of compression which ironically is the scourge of sound production quality across all modern music at the moment and is definitely holding the collective mind back since people are now so concerned with everything being big and loud.
Further, as far as an electronic musician going farther musically than before, what does production value really have to do with music? Yes, electronic producers should be able to do wild new things with music but instead these EDM heads are largely just making more fancy house music and polishing it better than ever before. That's not advancing music.
I think this would be an appropriate time to mention that I DO NOT listen to the broader genre of EDM. Of that genre, I only listen to Deadmau5, and I don't really have any consideration for other producers. So there must be a reason for that. It never occurs to me that his music is the same old EDM garbage--I swear that there's something different about it. For instance, Avicii makes me want to punch a baby in the face. I think we both would agree that EDM is generally shit, and that's very difficult to argue the other way. And I wouldn't. But I don't lump Deadmau5 is with that genre, actually. I just don't.
This is a track Deadmau5' real like EDM album, from 2010, 4x4=12. It's like it's its own genre. I mean, do you really just call this EDM trash?
It's like you are trying to argue that John Fogerty doesn't sound like CCR. Deadmaus can still be neatly placed in EDM genre, he doesn't sound drastically different from the other genre offerings. Unless the detail you are trying to argue is something like 'The 76 philharmonic recording of the 1st chair violin in Beethovens fifth is not as good as the first chair violin in the 82 recording of the NYC philharmonic'.
Personally, I could picture dancing to it if I was fucked up at a club, but as far as pure listening pleasure I consider the music a bit too slow, rythmically boring in general. That said I don't think he sucks but you seem to put him on a pedestal so high you've actually lost site of the bigger picture. We're not saying you shouldn't think he sucks, but maybe he isn't THE biggest fish in the pond, musically speaking.
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spazmodog



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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: Apollyphelion]
#19249096 - 12/09/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I think this would be an appropriate time to mention that I DO NOT listen to the broader genre of EDM. Of that genre, I only listen to Deadmau5, and I don't really have any consideration for other producers. So there must be a reason for that. It never occurs to me that his music is the same old EDM garbage
maybe this is the probelm? dude, on the internet, you have acess to almost all the music that was every made. get out there and re-define your idea of what 'EDM' is... its not even really a genre ffs,
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un-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: spazmodog]
#19250194 - 12/09/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
spazmodog said:
Quote:
I think this would be an appropriate time to mention that I DO NOT listen to the broader genre of EDM. Of that genre, I only listen to Deadmau5, and I don't really have any consideration for other producers. So there must be a reason for that. It never occurs to me that his music is the same old EDM garbage
maybe this is the probelm? dude, on the internet, you have acess to almost all the music that was every made. get out there and re-define your idea of what 'EDM' is... its not even really a genre ffs,
What's the problem? No, no problem. I have listened to plenty of EDM and given it a chance, and that's that attitude I've come away with. Again, I listen to other music, just not specifically other modern "EDM" producers. It's very vague, I know, and I suppose that I'm really talking about the other producers that Deadmau5 generally gets grouped together with.
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hecticpicnic
Lurk you long time..


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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome] 1
#19251202 - 12/09/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yo shroomy fans of EDMs whats your opinion on minimal stuff?
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RockyRaccoon


Registered: 06/17/13
Posts: 4,645
Loc: tromaville
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
#19251478 - 12/09/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nope. I really like Deadmau5, but I wouldn't put him on a pedestal like that. Brian Eno? Maybe.
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urbannerd
W.TheMushroomTip



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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: RockyRaccoon]
#19251902 - 12/09/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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for someone to be the "greatest" he has to be ALL-AROUND great. he's not, his music is repetitive, hes a douche, and he's one of the biggest djs right now, why?! mainstream, sell out, and doing the same thing over and over.
to me, he's a joke and anyone that listens to him doesnt know real edm music cause there are tons of djs/producers that shit on him.
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un-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: urbannerd]
#19254844 - 12/10/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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urbannerd said: for someone to be the "greatest" he has to be ALL-AROUND great. he's not, his music is repetitive, hes a douche, and he's one of the biggest djs right now, why?! mainstream, sell out, and doing the same thing over and over.
to me, he's a joke and anyone that listens to him doesnt know real edm music cause there are tons of djs/producers that shit on him.
Isn't what you're describing jealously? That other producers are envious of him? That generally happens when you become very good/successful at doing something.
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urbannerd
W.TheMushroomTip



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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
#19255113 - 12/10/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
un-known-ome said:
Quote:
urbannerd said: for someone to be the "greatest" he has to be ALL-AROUND great. he's not, his music is repetitive, hes a douche, and he's one of the biggest djs right now, why?! mainstream, sell out, and doing the same thing over and over.
to me, he's a joke and anyone that listens to him doesnt know real edm music cause there are tons of djs/producers that shit on him.
Isn't what you're describing jealously? That other producers are envious of him? That generally happens when you become very good/successful at doing something.
Jealousy? lol not at all, ive met the guy on a somewhat personal level.
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un-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: urbannerd]
#19256168 - 12/10/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
urbannerd said:
Quote:
un-known-ome said:
Quote:
urbannerd said: for someone to be the "greatest" he has to be ALL-AROUND great. he's not, his music is repetitive, hes a douche, and he's one of the biggest djs right now, why?! mainstream, sell out, and doing the same thing over and over.
to me, he's a joke and anyone that listens to him doesnt know real edm music cause there are tons of djs/producers that shit on him.
Isn't what you're describing jealously? That other producers are envious of him? That generally happens when you become very good/successful at doing something.
Jealousy? lol not at all, ive met the guy on a somewhat personal level.
Well I really don't care to mind his character. That's separate from the musical aspect. Again, I think he's great at what he does, and probably the best right now, and I think he deserves a bit more credit for his music. That's what I was trying to get at. Again, it's very easy to be dismissive of what he's putting out there, but it's top shelf for the most part, although not all of it is.
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urbannerd
W.TheMushroomTip



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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
#19256652 - 12/10/13 05:56 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
un-known-ome said:
Quote:
urbannerd said:
Quote:
un-known-ome said:
Quote:
urbannerd said: for someone to be the "greatest" he has to be ALL-AROUND great. he's not, his music is repetitive, hes a douche, and he's one of the biggest djs right now, why?! mainstream, sell out, and doing the same thing over and over.
to me, he's a joke and anyone that listens to him doesnt know real edm music cause there are tons of djs/producers that shit on him.
Isn't what you're describing jealously? That other producers are envious of him? That generally happens when you become very good/successful at doing something.
Jealousy? lol not at all, ive met the guy on a somewhat personal level.
Well I really don't care to mind his character. That's separate from the musical aspect. Again, I think he's great at what he does, and probably the best right now, and I think he deserves a bit more credit for his music. That's what I was trying to get at. Again, it's very easy to be dismissive of what he's putting out there, but it's top shelf for the most part, although not all of it is.
what, his character is what adds to the whole equation.
therfore not making him the greatest.
dont mind the people they used for this image, just the idea.
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Soaking in the energy of the universe since '91
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un-known-ome
Stranger

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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: urbannerd]
#19260254 - 12/11/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
urbannerd said:
what, his character is what adds to the whole equation.
therfore not making him the greatest.
dont mind the people they used for this image, just the idea.
I disagree with your point. Roger Federer is technically the best tennis player of all time, and he thinks he is. It is completely plausible that you could have no humility and still be great at something.
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dodgem
Learner



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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome] 1
#19260271 - 12/11/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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The electronic artists I really like are way more talented than the ones you like. Nice try.
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un-known-ome
Stranger

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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: dodgem]
#19260419 - 12/11/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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dodgem said: The electronic artists I really like are way more talented than the ones you like. Nice try.
Absolutely baffling that people hold these opinions about his music. Absolutely baffling. They're totally off the mark. The guy makes great electronic music, some of the best out there, and well he's obviously doing something right, isn't he? Can't argue with results. In the simplicity lies the beauty.
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urbannerd
W.TheMushroomTip



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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
#19260506 - 12/11/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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wait, i figured this thread out.... youre trolling right? lol
deadmau5 is the artist kids here on the radio, and instantly think they're now into edm and now their shit.
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Soaking in the energy of the universe since '91
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