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Offlinetheonlysun81
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: bloodbrother778]
    #19195638 - 11/27/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bloodbrother778 said:
What does the greatest mean?
how do you define greatness?

are we talking about popularity?  artistic ability?  composition?  taste in music?

I say never mind all that
why do we always want compare cocks and prove that the music we listen to is the best?
I remember back in the day when nobody knew about shpongle and I'd try to explain it to someone who didn't know anything about electronic music, they'd be like "Oh so it's some techno shit huh?"  I'd get piiisssed  :kingcrankey: 

But eventually I was like whats the point of getting myself pissed off.  The point is to enjoy the music, when I'm trying to prove to others that who I'm listening to is the best I'm missing the point.  Taste is mostly subjective anyway.....

If you enjoy the music, if it makes you feel good......who gives the shit about who's the best or what anyone else thinks?

I mean shit nowadays I even like Lindsey Stirling - I bet you I would've thought that was gay back in the day :lol:




I think by greatness he means talent.



so if you'd refer back to my Eoto video.


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
    #19195866 - 11/27/13 10:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

un-known-ome said:
This is a serious question. Is he the greatest? I'm pretty convinced that he is, at this point. For my own listening purposes, he has redefined the way in which I interpret music. I feel like he has set a new standard for excellence, and I have had immense difficulty finding music that's on par. The level of composition that he brings to the table is simply a class above. He only needs to do a few more things to really cement his legacy, but I think he's on track to do a film score at some point in the near future, and I'm sure it will be mind-blowing. Thoughts or opinions?

Exhibit A:




Exhibit B?:


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Offlineun-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: theonlysun81]
    #19196035 - 11/27/13 11:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

theonlysun81 said:
Quote:

bloodbrother778 said:
What does the greatest mean?
how do you define greatness?

are we talking about popularity?  artistic ability?  composition?  taste in music?

I say never mind all that
why do we always want compare cocks and prove that the music we listen to is the best?
I remember back in the day when nobody knew about shpongle and I'd try to explain it to someone who didn't know anything about electronic music, they'd be like "Oh so it's some techno shit huh?"  I'd get piiisssed  :kingcrankey: 

But eventually I was like whats the point of getting myself pissed off.  The point is to enjoy the music, when I'm trying to prove to others that who I'm listening to is the best I'm missing the point.  Taste is mostly subjective anyway.....

If you enjoy the music, if it makes you feel good......who gives the shit about who's the best or what anyone else thinks?

I mean shit nowadays I even like Lindsey Stirling - I bet you I would've thought that was gay back in the day :lol:




I think by greatness he means talent.



so if you'd refer back to my Eoto video.




Actually no, not strictly talent. Eoto could be mare talented, idk. But that's not really important. What matters is the final product that you're putting out there. There is more convoluted, polyrhythmic,  and other-wordly music than what Deadmau5 puts out there, sure. And I've heard some terrific electronic music with great inspiration, fascinating tones, and intriguing melodies, but that's all ancillary to actually producing a song, which is what really matters. The final product. Aphex Twin is a great example of an artist with some brilliant shit, but some of his songs just kind of wander. He is an exemplary talent, many and I also feel, but his production quality is not top notch. I love Stone in Focus, a nice ambient piece, but that song is very stagnant, and it doesn't really go anywhere. That's where Deadmau5 shines. He composes electronic music, and whatever lack of creativity he is accused of having, he compensates for in just how damn well he puts tracks together. And that really matters on the listener's end.


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Invisibleschwarg
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome] * 1
    #19196241 - 11/27/13 12:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Aphex Twin rapes the shit outta that guy.



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OfflineViveka
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: bloodbrother778]
    #19196505 - 11/27/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

If you're taking about museum of consciousness, I didn't like the album very much either, but to describe it as house.......makes me think you really have no idea what you're talking about.  I don't think it resembles house in any way shape or form.




It very closely resembles house in it's shape and form. Before house, you had disco on the dance floor. The rhythmic content of this music was a pulsing four beat measure with a low register accent on every beat and that was the essence of it. Then house came along and usurped the role of disco in the dance/club/mating behavior party environment. House is essentially just a highly repetitive pulsing four beat measure and that is all it fundamentally is musically. Anything else, hihats, synths, melodic hooks here and there, vocal samples, whatever, is just decoration.

Whatever neat little sub-genres of EDM that have come along since house that have this same rhythmic content that you think are so different from house really are not. Now let's look at a track from the latest Shpongle album. Once you get past the decorative intro at about two minutes in what do you have?:



Quote:

All I'm saying is that enjoyment should be a bigger priority than critique.



They don't really need to be and are not really separate. I don't enjoy stuff like the video I just posted or Deadmouse because it has almost nothing to offer in any musical sense. It's very generic rhythmically and melodically, it lacks harmonic content and how well it's produced really doesn't mean shit if there's no real, unique content to begin with. The reasons I don't enjoy it are the same reasons I critique it.


Quote:

Why do we have to impose all sorts of conditions on something in order to be happy? This is precisely why we aren't happy - because really we are only giving ourselves the possibility of not being happy if our conditions are not fulfilled. 


 
I think you have it backwards. I'm not satisfied with most electronic music because it's generic crap. It's not that I'm placing some arbitrary parameters on what qualifies as unique and musical. Instead the shit heap of generic EDM and most modern music fails to live up to these standards on its own.


Quote:

Why not just be happy regardless of whether your conditions are fulfilled or not?



I really don't know what you mean by "be happy" or what it has to do with anything. Happiness is irrelevant. It's a term used to describe a piece of the dynamic spectrum of life experience. It's a transient emotional concept and a favorite modern scapegoat. I don't see what it has to do with critiquing music.


Edited by Viveka (11/27/13 03:18 PM)


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: Viveka]
    #19198429 - 11/27/13 09:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Thought I'd leave this here as an example of the greatness that is Daedelus. First time posting a video so hope this works.


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Offlineun-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #19198642 - 11/27/13 10:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
Thought I'd leave this here as an example of the greatness that is Daedelus. First time posting a video so hope this works.





That's pretty neat, and I own a monome, so I can definitely appreciate what he's doing. But it was a bit chaotic. Definitely cool. But a broad palette of sounds/samples just got shoved in my face. I mean, what do you subjectively see as being the greatness here? I'm not saying it's not. Just wondering. I think I can appreciate this, and I would expect that Deadmau5 could get similar appreciation. It's a different brand of music, but still great in it's own right. Deadmau5. with a song like Strobe, is on the opposite end of the spectrum as something like this, but it deserves recognition not only from legions of drugged out ravers and clubbers, but from connoisseurs of electronic music. I think there's bias towards a certain type of electronic music, like that Aphex Twin more or less started, as being inherently genius or brilliant.


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
    #19198853 - 11/27/13 11:54 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

This was just a small example of his live recorded performance, which tends to be broad and chaotic intentionally. Its not a shining example of his more subtle work but a brief snippet. However here's something a touch more minimalistic, ignore the "gangster" sample and this is gold. He played each instrument sampled here himself.

I like Deadmau5 for four on the floor progressive house, Daedelus caters to my experimental and classically inclined musical taste. In regards to musicianship I'm not sure Deadmau5 plays any acoustic instruments, or has classical training like Daedelus, but he has a discerning ear that I can appreciate. I have my preferences and I acknowledge that it affects whom I would pick in my top producers, but subjectively this guy has immense musical chops in comparison to Deadmau5 as well as having more artistic integrity(he won't stop a show 30 minutes early because he feels like it or have his squeeze of the moment sing for the last half of his set. Just my experience).

More importantly, just look at that hair and windsor knot combo!


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Offlinebloodbrother778
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: Viveka]
    #19199260 - 11/28/13 03:27 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Vivetka:

I agree with you on most of your points
I too think that most electronic music out there is crap, and am also not a fan of the beats like the ones in the track you posted.  I was definitely disappointed by shpongle taking a step back in that direction from their original approach, like say this track here:



Although I don't think the beat alone defines the style, I think you are overgeneralizing when you call this house music simply because of a "house" beat.  If that were true then what would be the difference between techno/trance and psytrance?  I think there is a big difference even though the beats may be the same like the choice of synths sounds, buildup, intensity, even voice samples are different.

As far as the happiness thing goes - to me that is the whole point of listening to music, I like what I like and if someone else doesn't like it who cares.  Similarly if someone else likes what I do not like why should I take it upon myself to tell them that it's crap?  Yes I understand that there are differences in artistic talent, uniqueness, and creativity (which is precisely what I look for in music as well).  But really if someone enjoys listening to a less talented artist I don't think I should be trying to subtract from their enjoyment - doing so would be missing the point for me.

But to each his own....
Critiquing music seems to be what makes you happy at this point...So carry on. More power to ya :thumbup:


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Offlineun-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #19199902 - 11/28/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
This was just a small example of his live recorded performance, which tends to be broad and chaotic intentionally. Its not a shining example of his more subtle work but a brief snippet. However here's something a touch more minimalistic, ignore the "gangster" sample and this is gold. He played each instrument sampled here himself.

I like Deadmau5 for four on the floor progressive house, Daedelus caters to my experimental and classically inclined musical taste. In regards to musicianship I'm not sure Deadmau5 plays any acoustic instruments, or has classical training like Daedelus, but he has a discerning ear that I can appreciate. I have my preferences and I acknowledge that it affects whom I would pick in my top producers, but subjectively this guy has immense musical chops in comparison to Deadmau5 as well as having more artistic integrity(he won't stop a show 30 minutes early because he feels like it or have his squeeze of the moment sing for the last half of his set. Just my experience).

More importantly, just look at that hair and windsor knot combo!




Totally, it's wicked. I really do love it. No, Daedelus and Deadmau5 were two guys I saw using the monome at one point, which is why I picked it up, and Daedelus certainly uses it much more masterfully. There's no doubt about that. Daedelus has more musical chops as well, so you definitely have to respect that. And I do. For all intents and purposes, Deadmau5, in the past, has just used Ableton and some virtual instruments and that's been the extent of it. Which people seem to have an inherent problem with, although I don't quite understand why. But it's not strictly about musicianship with electronic music, and Deadmau5 just knows how to make shit that sounds good. Period. It is almost all 4 on the floor music, but that has more to do with the genre. So preference comes into it, but he doesn't deserve to be dismissed for that.

My objective wasn't to assert that Deadmau5 rules and everyone else is shit, but I wanted to try to have a conversation with a community that I figure has a pretty good taste in electronic music in regards to his quality as an artist. Clearly, it's my personal preference, however, I feel his music deserved more credit, because he does make some very interesting and dynamic music. I think this track is exemplary of what he brings to the table. Fascinating sound scape. Intelligently sequenced. Very regimented. Very precise. Extremely well produced. And it's just a groovy beat.

One thing that you may or may not realize, also, it that Deadmau5 specifically makes DJ-Friendly music. That's why you have the long intros and outros, which may be a minute or longer. Also, keeping the same time sig. and tempo, at 128 bpm, makes his music mix together very cohesively, which is by design what he wants.


Edited by un-known-ome (11/28/13 09:15 AM)


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OfflineYukon Cornelius
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
    #19200584 - 11/28/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

un-known-ome said:
Quote:

Yukon Cornelius said:
This was just a small example of his live recorded performance, which tends to be broad and chaotic intentionally. Its not a shining example of his more subtle work but a brief snippet. However here's something a touch more minimalistic, ignore the "gangster" sample and this is gold. He played each instrument sampled here himself.

I like Deadmau5 for four on the floor progressive house, Daedelus caters to my experimental and classically inclined musical taste. In regards to musicianship I'm not sure Deadmau5 plays any acoustic instruments, or has classical training like Daedelus, but he has a discerning ear that I can appreciate. I have my preferences and I acknowledge that it affects whom I would pick in my top producers, but subjectively this guy has immense musical chops in comparison to Deadmau5 as well as having more artistic integrity(he won't stop a show 30 minutes early because he feels like it or have his squeeze of the moment sing for the last half of his set. Just my experience).

More importantly, just look at that hair and windsor knot combo!




Totally, it's wicked. I really do love it. No, Daedelus and Deadmau5 were two guys I saw using the monome at one point, which is why I picked it up, and Daedelus certainly uses it much more masterfully. There's no doubt about that. Daedelus has more musical chops as well, so you definitely have to respect that. And I do. For all intents and purposes, Deadmau5, in the past, has just used Ableton and some virtual instruments and that's been the extent of it. Which people seem to have an inherent problem with, although I don't quite understand why. But it's not strictly about musicianship with electronic music, and Deadmau5 just knows how to make shit that sounds good. Period. It is almost all 4 on the floor music, but that has more to do with the genre. So preference comes into it, but he doesn't deserve to be dismissed for that.

My objective wasn't to assert that Deadmau5 rules and everyone else is shit, but I wanted to try to have a conversation with a community that I figure has a pretty good taste in electronic music in regards to his quality as an artist. Clearly, it's my personal preference, however, I feel his music deserved more credit, because he does make some very interesting and dynamic music. I think this track is exemplary of what he brings to the table. Fascinating sound scape. Intelligently sequenced. Very regimented. Very precise. Extremely well produced. And it's just a groovy beat.

One thing that you may or may not realize, also, it that Deadmau5 specifically makes DJ-Friendly music. That's why you have the long intros and outros, which may be a minute or longer. Also, keeping the same time sig. and tempo, at 128 bpm, makes his music mix together very cohesively, which is by design what he wants.




I agree with absolutely everything you said, the title of the thread was "is Deadmau5 the greatest electronic producer of all time" and I think its been answered. He is one of the greats but is not the greatest. I'm very aware that his music is meant to be DJ friendly, but what constitutes DJ friendly is changing rapidly with advances in both hardware and software. I believe Daedelus and Deadmau5 are far ahead of the curve than names like Avicii or David Geutta in that respect.


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Offlineun-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: Yukon Cornelius]
    #19201030 - 11/28/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

The title was meant to be a bit, well, provocative. Not trolling, but designed to get attention. He's one of the best right now, and I think one of the best of the lot. I can honestly say that I love Aphex Twin, BoC, The Prodigy, Zomby, Trentmoller, and yes, Deadmau5 too. All are brilliant in their own right. Deadmau5 deserves his place in that conversation. He absolutely does.


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OfflineViveka
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: bloodbrother778]
    #19201090 - 11/28/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Although I don't think the beat alone defines the style, I think you are overgeneralizing when you call this house music simply because of a "house" beat.  If that were true then what would be the difference between techno/trance and psytrance?



Nothing, really. That's my point. The musical content is pretty much exactly the same. As compared to music of the world overall, not EDM. That's what I'm saying. EDM is this huge incestuous genre and a majority of it is just house music fundamentally. House came first and many of these sub-genres are not significantly different from house.

Quote:

I think there is a big difference even though the beats may be the same like the choice of synths sounds, buildup, intensity, even voice samples are different.



Really? So you're saying the structure and form of the music is the same("the beats") but there's a big difference because some of the textures and dynamics are a bit different? I think you have an insular view of what constitutes musical content. It's a common, major problem. It's why we have so much similar, tired, generic music.

As for the Shpongle video you posted, look, an EDM track in 7/8. Now there is something different! Some actual difference of form and content. And see how it lends to the uniqueness and creativity of the track.

Quote:

But really if someone enjoys listening to a less talented artist I don't think I should be trying to subtract from their enjoyment - doing so would be missing the point for me.



Right, the point being that people enjoy different things and some enjoy lapping up generic mediocrity. But this is a point from a consumer mentality. The point of my crticality is custodial in nature - what is it that plagues modern music and what is the medicine.

Quote:

Critiquing music seems to be what makes you happy at this point...So carry on.



Again, happiness is irrelevant. I'm calling out a lot of this EDM for what it is as an effort toward the above stated goal. It's going to be hard for electronic music to develop it's potential when so many people think there is a "big difference" between trance and psytrance. Of course most people don't give a fuck and just want music to party to. I don't think that's really a worthwhile creative pursuit and I'm disturbed that so many producers are fixated on these generic forms. I'm trying to hold on to some morale for humanity's sake here. I have my misanthropic tendencies but it doesn't mean I want music shoveled onto the garbage heap of society along with most everything else.


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OfflineReposadoXochipilli
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
    #19201101 - 11/28/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

iv always enjoyed bt a lot. deadmau5 is ok to me, def could be worse


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OfflineDirtyTomFlint
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: ReposadoXochipilli]
    #19201206 - 11/28/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I sometimes just like to classify genres using BPM. It's a bit general but it works.


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Offlineegads
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: DirtyTomFlint]
    #19201535 - 11/28/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

What a wicked thread.  It's impossible to declare an artist with such a title IMO.

Deadmau5 to me?  Crap.  Great music, douche of a personality, skewed message entirely with how he acts upon and alongside his creations.  Thinking of Deadmau5 instantly rings Feed Me/Spore in my brain, even though they focused on different genres for the most part.  Feed Me evolved a lot better as an artist and progressed/evolved his masterpieces at a higher rate than the mau5man... if we're looking at talent as a whole, Feed Me has him beat by a long shot.

But like I said earlier, dictating this is pointless.  The best part about electronic music is the adventure one has to take in mastering sections of their piece.  You can approach it traditionally, follow best practices, or get experimental and output interesting results that you can eventually tame to something all ears can appreciate.  That's what sets a good electronic producer apart from the rest.

I don't know how these guys approach mastering or if they constantly seek feedback during the songwriting process, but it really seems like the key component of their productions is having access and ties to equipment that the average producer would never have.

That being said (once more), I fucking love what he did with Remember Me, but that track featured Kaskade and that dude's magic to his own merit, as well.

---

Take into consideration the electronic producers who attack different genres.  Hell, take all of the hip-hop/rap producers into consideration while we're at it.  Give Deltron 3030 a listen, focus on the lyrics, enjoy the well-relax and well-nourished beats that surround the words, and tell me that production and concept wasn't perfect as a whole... I double-dare you, mothafucka.

Apples and oranges and burritos.


Edited by egads (11/28/13 04:44 PM)


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Offlineun-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: egads]
    #19202574 - 11/28/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

egads said:
What a wicked thread.  It's impossible to declare an artist with such a title IMO.

Deadmau5 to me?  Crap.  Great music, douche of a personality, skewed message entirely with how he acts upon and alongside his creations.  Thinking of Deadmau5 instantly rings Feed Me/Spore in my brain, even though they focused on different genres for the most part.  Feed Me evolved a lot better as an artist and progressed/evolved his masterpieces at a higher rate than the mau5man... if we're looking at talent as a whole, Feed Me has him beat by a long shot.






First of all, Feed Me is pretty kick ass. No doubt. But his music, in many ways, is so reminiscent of Deadmau5'. The influence there is so prominent, that I find it distracting, particularly in his earlier stuff. He was on Deadmau5' label, after all, but now he's moving in a different direction, so credit to him there.


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InvisibleSARAtonin
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: un-known-ome]
    #19203069 - 11/28/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

His best song is strobe and he hasn't mad anything anywhere comparable since.
The only reason his track "Ghost n Stuff" did so well is Rob Swire.
He admittly prerecords his sets ahread of time and just presses play and waves his hands for two hours.
He time and time again proves himself to be a shit person with his actions and interactions.
I have little to no respect for him.

I'm glad I got to see him back in 09 and 10 before I realized how much of an ass he was.


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Offlinebloodbrother778
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: Viveka]
    #19203435 - 11/29/13 02:30 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Viveka said:

I think you have an insular view of what constitutes musical content. It's a common, major problem. It's why we have so much similar, tired, generic music.






Think what you like
I'm done trying to talk to you
You simply will not make the effort to see what I'm trying to say because you've already labeled me as "someone with generic taste"
I feel like I'm talking to a robot


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Offlineun-known-ome
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Re: Is Deadmau5 the Greatest Electronic Producer of All Time? [Re: SARAtonin]
    #19203764 - 11/29/13 06:50 AM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SARAtonin said:
His best song is strobe and he hasn't mad anything anywhere comparable since.
The only reason his track "Ghost n Stuff" did so well is Rob Swire.
He admittly prerecords his sets ahread of time and just presses play and waves his hands for two hours.
He time and time again proves himself to be a shit person with his actions and interactions.
I have little to no respect for him.

I'm glad I got to see him back in 09 and 10 before I realized how much of an ass he was.




Can I argue with anything you've said? No. I can't. You're right on all counts. But this is isn't about character. I'm not going to be more or less interested in an artist because they're either an upstanding person or a complete asshole. It's strictly about the music. I mean, shit, I've heard that he spits on his own fans and he's been punched in the face after a set on at least one occasion. So yeah he's a shithead. But, again, that doesn't really factor into his music being good or not. Strobe is an epic, well, masterpiece, but I can assure you that he has many more.


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