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OfflinePrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations
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Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
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Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19182410 - 11/24/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think you are looking for the word "unfolding" because that's how I see the world anyway....infinite unfoldings in an infinite ball that has already been unfolded, so in a way our future has been determined




I'm not looking for that word.  Futures branch off from all parallel presents and contain all possibilities - the branch you follow is your choice.  So it kind of looks like it's been determined, but there are infinite determinations to choose from. :thumbup:

:peace:PS


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
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Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19182427 - 11/24/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PS i'd be interested in hearing your philosophy regarding tripping as a whole. I feel like i've seen some really good comments by you but never been able to tell what your actual beliefs are. I'm interested to see what we have in common though




:babyface:  Whoa, thanks man.  But you never will be able to tell, as part of my process is to reduce beliefs to inconsequential levels, and the same with philosophy.  It's more of a recognition of the fundamental emptiness of all things (refer to Śūnyatā if you like) and dwelling in the midst of what is, at root, nonexistent.  Although that proves to be a hard thing to do, it leads to profound realization and fits perfectly with what the mushrooms reveal.  I don't really know which came first though. :shrug:

So there isn't much to talk about there. :lol:

:peace:PS


--------------------

if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat you
Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19182931 - 11/24/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

PrimalSoup said:
Quote:

I think you are looking for the word "unfolding" because that's how I see the world anyway....infinite unfoldings in an infinite ball that has already been unfolded, so in a way our future has been determined




I'm not looking for that word.  Futures branch off from all parallel presents and contain all possibilities - the branch you follow is your choice.  So it kind of looks like it's been determined, but there are infinite determinations to choose from. :thumbup:

:peace:PS






This is getting into the whole free will thing...did we ever have a choice to begin with?

Or are we talking on the terms of "all roads lead to one path" thee words you string along look pretty, but on which level are you speaking? That's where written language gets tricky

I think we "dug out" our future along time ago as someone would dig through a tunnel. Life is us roaming around the tunnel that we already dug out. Some people have dug further than others, thus allowing them to go further in life.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
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Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
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Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #19182986 - 11/24/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I am an atheist, a nihilist and a firm believer in the absolute non-duality of all existence.

That basically means I cant be spiritual in the literal sense of the word.

What does tripping show me?

- My subjectivity in everything
- The beauty of the natural world (subjectively)
- The power of the mind
- Parallel universes (still a bit undecided on that one)
- My place as a link in the biological evolution of life
- Pretty colors

What does it show my friends who are basically undecided on most things and never question anything?

- Mostly strange visuals and funny/weird feelings

:shrug:


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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OfflineJingleJoe
Builder

Registered: 10/24/13
Posts: 100
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
    #19182995 - 11/24/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

4Skins said:
By "better," I mean, do you think it can help them as a person in the long run such as finding their selves and inner peace and whatnot?




Maybe, I've come to the conclusion that mushrooms clear pre-existing mental fog and give some delusions. I also conclude that some of you won't like my further conclusion; the combination of perspective/ego death and delusion can lead some to believe they have greater understanding about the universe/contact with spirits/magic powers.
I'm going to be so popular now :rolleyes:
Quote:


All of my friends and I that trip are non-believers. Does that make our trips any less meaningful?



Meaning is assigned by people.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #19183042 - 11/24/13 03:01 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
I am an atheist


- My subjectivity in everything
- The beauty of the natural world (subjectively)
- The power of the mind
- Parallel universes (still a bit undecided on that one)
- My place as a link in the biological evolution of life
- Pretty colors







Sounds like spirituality to me buddy


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19183104 - 11/24/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Yes it sounds like it but it cant really be if you dont believe in things like spirit and the soul.

For me the mind is an emergent property of the material make-up of the brain. And no matter how deep you go, you will never be able to get out of it. I agree with Huxley's thesis of the mind-valve. Psychedelics/meditation whatever can loosen up the filter. There is a possibility to see things in a more pure, less subjective way. But the subjectivity can never be completely shaken.

But even a world without meaning can be significant and beautiful. But those are attributes I put into it, they are not inherent.

I guess I am all caught up in Kant's transcendental reduction


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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OfflineRedpill


Registered: 01/23/13
Posts: 421
Loc: Lake Wobegon, MN
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: 4Skins]
    #19183159 - 11/24/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I do not believe in God, but my first trip felt amazingly meaningful to me. It felt like enlightenment at one point to be honest. But it wasn't religious in the slightest. It was very focused on biology and metaphysics, and led me through the evolution of life, the nature of physical existence, and the ideas of good and bad. and I was completely awe-struck. I still do not believe in God, but since that day I have been happier and more satisfied with life than I had been since I was a little kid. It showed me that the world is so beautiful, and that life is the most amazing thing possible.

That's my take on it anyway. Basically, I don't think being spiritual is necessary to have profoundly meaningful trips.


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #19183193 - 11/24/13 03:34 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
Yes it sounds like it but it cant really be if you dont believe in things like spirit and the soul.

For me the mind is an emergent property of the material make-up of the brain. And no matter how deep you go, you will never be able to get out of it. I agree with Huxley's thesis of the mind-valve. Psychedelics/meditation whatever can loosen up the filter. There is a possibility to see things in a more pure, less subjective way. But the subjectivity can never be completely shaken.

But even a world without meaning can be significant and beautiful. But those are attributes I put into it, they are not inherent.

I guess I am all caught up in Kant's transcendental reduction





I agree. Whatever can be experienced is through the mind. We cannot leave the mind just like an astronaut cannot leave the universe. When we eat mushrooms, we are seeing contents of the mind "scrambled" in a chaotic but orderly fashion.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19183205 - 11/24/13 03:36 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And for someone not to believe in God, to me, is like someone not believing in puberty or something.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19183216 - 11/24/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:
And for someone not to believe in God, to me, is like someone not believing in puberty or something.




Please elaborate


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19183229 - 11/24/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I look at it the same way fundamentalists look at drugs. They are afraid of drugs not knowing they are essentially made from drugs. I see it the same way, that we are essentially made of "God" so to not believe in God doesn't make much sense.


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19183244 - 11/24/13 03:44 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

I was reading "DMT:The spirit molecule" the other day for shits and giggles and I remember reading a womans DMT trip where she asked some entity if they were god, and the entity replied "God is in every cell of your body"


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


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OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19183266 - 11/24/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Do I detect a pantheist?

I think Spinoza made a similar point.

Our thinking is similar in a way (if I may be sol bold.) I believe the universe(s) is(are) real, and that is what constitutes us also. I choose to call it the material world whereas you call it God.

Unless you mean God in the biblical sense, in that case we have no chance of ever understanding each other  :grin:


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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OfflineJacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #19183281 - 11/24/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Okay bill i agree with that. I am a pantheist. But as long as we can agree that the term god is ambiguous and that we are not talking about some anthropomorphic body spawning creation. Of course, i have no problem with that belief either, it just wouldn't hold to the statement you made


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #19183300 - 11/24/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, to really know god is impossible. In broad terms, God is "the orderly chaotic energy(or whatever) that allows me to experience reality"..its like god could even be a clam on another planet whos dreaming all this(basically what scientologists believe, which sounds rediculous)


but yeah, were on the same page. But the REAL question I think is "is God a judging thing, or is it just a laid-back fat bitch that lets us do whatever we want" :lol: I think the answer is neither...god is what allows us to create our own karma, basically


but when all is said and done, I think god is what we were talking about in the other thread Jackson, that golden disc that seems to travel through dimensions


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/24/13 04:07 PM)


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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19183325 - 11/24/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

And youre the second person this week who told me they were a "pantheist"...interesting

I think you just like the name because it sounds like panther, and because Einstein was a pantheist :wink:


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Edited by Bill_Oreilly (11/24/13 04:18 PM)


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OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19183390 - 11/24/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

You really believe there is a flying inter-dimensional golden disk that is somehow concerned with/linked to human existence?

I think the Jungian theory of archetypes gives a pretty sweet explanation for all kinds of unusual perceptions whilst tripping.


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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InvisibleBill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Tripsurfer]
    #19183396 - 11/24/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tripsurfer said:
You really believe there is a flying inter-dimensional golden disk that is somehow concerned with/linked to human existence?







I don't believe it, I know it :smirk:


The leap to DMT and the flying disc is equivalent to the leap to CDs/DVDs they work in the exact same way


--------------------
Something there is mysteriously formed,
Existing before Heaven and Earth,
Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,
All-pervading, unfailing,
I do not know its name; I call it tao.
If forced to give it a name, I call it
Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;
Flowing out means far-reaching;
Being far-reaching, it is said to return.


It's just a shot away..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTripsurfer
Bring Back Asante!
Male


Registered: 08/01/12
Posts: 7,129
Loc: West of Windward Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
Re: Spiritual trippers vs. Non-spiritual trippers (believers vs. non-believers) [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
    #19183429 - 11/24/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago)

But it just can't be true. On salvia I saw the goddess at the centre of all universes. She wasn't a golden disk at all, but a blue green being with tentacles coming from her head that controlled the cosmos.


I must try that DMT you speak off...


--------------------
Ach en wee ben ik de klos, met mijn boog schoot ik een albatros...

A philosopher is a person who knows less and less about more and more, until he knows nothing about everything.



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