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g3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 73
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Tek Swap - Quick question
#19179418 - 11/23/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been doing BRF tek lately and it has been great. I've been thinking of swapping to a grain tek - maybe rye berries or something - and I came up with a thought I wanted to run by, not really sure if it's feasible:
I was thinking about cutting up my BRF cakes to get to the core of the cake, and inoculating the grain jars with that (similar protocol to a grain-to-grain transfer). I'm just wondering peoples' thoughts. I usually retire cakes when they stop producing like I'd want them to (clear of contaminants), and I would think the interior of the cake would be fairly clean. I don't really have the experience to answer this, though.
I have spores and LC - I'm just sort of curious to how/if you think this would work. Thanks! :]
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joshfor20
boss



Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 24
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
#19179445 - 11/23/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It might work. You might also try getting a sample from a stem. That works well. It also isolates one strain from your multi-spore inoculation.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
#19179493 - 11/23/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Chance of success is pretty low. You will have a difficult time getting a clean sample from a cake.
Even if you open your jar in a SAB, you still have the contam barrier to deal with.
Soaking will add more contaminants and fruiting exposes it even further more.
Plus,
Sterilizing doesn't kill everything. Eventually, whatever survives the sterilization and/or comes in contact with that cake will eventually germinate and grow.
Over time, as the myc weakens, your chance of seeing contams will increase.
Just because you can't see contams does not mean they are absent. We generally only refer to them as contams once they affect our grow.
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nksfo5
traverse traveler


Registered: 12/19/12
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: joshfor20]
#19179507 - 11/23/13 04:11 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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i tried this about two weeks ago, the mycelium from the cake grabbed ahold of the rye grains really well and new growth was initiated about a day or day and a half after i placed them the chunks of mycelium into the rye jar. although the mycelium did well grabbing on to the rye i did not use a GB or a SAB and only sanitized as best as i could and attempted things this way. the first few days things were going great new growth and no contams. but about a week later i was unpleased to find that it was not working and that my rye grain was covered in a green fuzz.
i did a little bit of research on the forum here but not much into this subject matter. i decided against trying again after that as open air has never been a problem for me before.
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joshfor20
boss



Registered: 10/19/13
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: nksfo5]
#19179588 - 11/23/13 04:35 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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A still air box really is necessary to get by at this level of mycology. Other than a flow hood of course.
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld



Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: joshfor20]
#19179623 - 11/23/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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yea def go SAB. no excuse not to. cardboard and saran wrap if u have to! My first sab was just my laundry tote cleaned out and turned upside down over the lip of the table. now its a laundry tote with a lid and 2 holes. not hard. its not fun waiting 2 weeks with good growth then a contam hits.
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g3n3h4x0r
Fungal Geneticist

Registered: 09/29/13
Posts: 73
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Awesome. I thought contams would be the biggest issue - I was mostly inquiring out of curiosity.
Quote:
i tried this about two weeks ago, the mycelium from the cake grabbed ahold of the rye grains really well and new growth was initiated about a day or day and a half after i placed them the chunks of mycelium into the rye jar. although the mycelium did well grabbing on to the rye i did not use a GB or a SAB and only sanitized as best as i could and attempted things this way. the first few days things were going great new growth and no contams. but about a week later i was unpleased to find that it was not working and that my rye grain was covered in a green fuzz.
Thanks for the personal experience!
I'll avoid creating the scenario, then. I've done plenty of work on various bacteria as well, and it's off putting that fungi are much more prone to failure due to contamination. Sort of a disappointment how efficient molds are and we're practically setting up perfect conditions to grow the mold as well as any fungi of interest... x_x
Thanks, everyone!
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Smeagol
Poke my 3rd eye


Registered: 04/14/13
Posts: 319
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: g3n3h4x0r]
#19184202 - 11/24/13 07:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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taking a chunk of myc from that cake or a chunk of stem (clone) will not isolate a strain if they were inoculated with a multi spore solution. It takes transering from agar to agar a couple times until the mycelium grows in "sectors". a sample from a single sector is an isolate. even cloning a single fruit from a ms won't isolate the genetics.
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joshfor20
boss



Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 24
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: Smeagol]
#19187930 - 11/25/13 05:15 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Smeagol said: taking a chunk of myc from that cake or a chunk of stem (clone) will not isolate a strain if they were inoculated with a multi spore solution. It takes transering from agar to agar a couple times until the mycelium grows in "sectors". a sample from a single sector is an isolate. even cloning a single fruit from a ms won't isolate the genetics.
I am pretty sure cloning from a stem isolates one Dikaryotic strain without the need for agar.
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joshfor20
boss



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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: joshfor20]
#19187974 - 11/25/13 05:25 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Then again i have been wrong. I Clone, I don't isolate
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silverstem
Caps & Stems



Registered: 10/12/13
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: joshfor20]
#19188038 - 11/25/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
joshfor20 said:
Quote:
Smeagol said: taking a chunk of myc from that cake or a chunk of stem (clone) will not isolate a strain if they were inoculated with a multi spore solution. It takes transering from agar to agar a couple times until the mycelium grows in "sectors". a sample from a single sector is an isolate. even cloning a single fruit from a ms won't isolate the genetics.
I am pretty sure cloning from a stem isolates one Dikaryotic strain without the need for agar.
cloning from a stem insures the mushroom you picked will be in the genetics of the myc that grows from it... you will need agar for this... isolating from a strain could mean that you take out partial genetics from that mushroom and results will very...
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: silverstem]
#19188153 - 11/25/13 06:04 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I have cloned mushrooms that did not sector, but it is not a common occurrence.
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joshfor20
boss



Registered: 10/19/13
Posts: 24
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: silverstem]
#19188164 - 11/25/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
silverstem said:
Quote:
joshfor20 said:
Quote:
Smeagol said: taking a chunk of myc from that cake or a chunk of stem (clone) will not isolate a strain if they were inoculated with a multi spore solution. It takes transering from agar to agar a couple times until the mycelium grows in "sectors". a sample from a single sector is an isolate. even cloning a single fruit from a ms won't isolate the genetics.
I am pretty sure cloning from a stem isolates one Dikaryotic strain without the need for agar.
cloning from a stem insures the mushroom you picked will be in the genetics of the myc that grows from it... you will need agar for this... isolating from a strain could mean that you take out partial genetics from that mushroom and results will very...
yep, after i posted that i knew i didn't sound right. Typically im just happy if i have all rhizomorphic growth.
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silverstem
Caps & Stems



Registered: 10/12/13
Posts: 900
Loc: jordan
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19188172 - 11/25/13 06:06 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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if you make a less nutritious agar your myc will become rhyzomorpic and will most likely sector.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: silverstem]
#19188183 - 11/25/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
silverstem said: if you make a less nutritious agar your myc will become rhyzomorpic and will most likely sector.
I am aware of that. . . Not all fruits are comprised of multiple strains. It is rare but can happen.
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19188667 - 11/25/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Almost all, if not all, fruits of a MS grow will have multiple genetics. Sometimes it takes more than one transfer on agar of a MS fruit to have visible sectoring.
Rhyzomorphic mycelial growth does not indicate fruit characteristics.
You could take your best fruit from a MS grow and isolate the genetics on agar. Take the most rhyzomorphic of the isolates and still end up with a non-fruiter.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
SpitballJedi said: Almost all, if not all, fruits of a MS grow will have multiple genetics. Sometimes it takes more than one transfer on agar of a MS fruit to have visible sectoring.
I know. I have probably taken 50+ clones in the last year alone. But I have had a clone that would not sector, no matter how many times I transferred or how nutritious that agar was. I never once said it was a common occurrence. Maybe its because it was a pin that formed invitro on a plate that was the 6th transfer and was starting to sector It was rhizomorphic as hell. I never did try to fruit it, just transferred to a slant and forgot about it until a few weeks ago. I now have it colonizing a master, hoping it fruits as good as it looks
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SpitballJedi
Ancient Astronaut



Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 8,598
Loc: Nibiru
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Re: Tek Swap - Quick question [Re: Pastywhyte]
#19188746 - 11/25/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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My bad. I thought you were saying it's rare to have multiple genetics in a fruit. I've been drinking, so I'm a little slow.
Yeah, you may have got an isolate from that invetro pin. It happens.
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